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Cole (out 2-3 weeks) and Larose (out 3-4 weeks) placed on IR. Dwyer, Tlusty recalled

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Old
12-11-2009, 08:41 PM
  #51
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in other words he is a prospect right now.
My point was we have 2 AHLs playing defense and 2 in top 9... That's all

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12-11-2009, 09:28 PM
  #52
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Did anyone catch John saying LaRose has been playing with this injury for 2 weeks now? Might explain why he's not been as noticeable lately.

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12-11-2009, 09:45 PM
  #53
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My point was we have 2 AHLs playing defense and 2 in top 9... That's all
Just doesn't have quite the same sensational ring to it, eh?

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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
LaRose has been playing with this injury for 2 weeks now? Might explain why he's not been as noticeable lately.
Now if we can just figure out something to blame the rest of his season on, we can feel better about having an ECHL player on the roster.

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12-11-2009, 10:00 PM
  #54
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Actually it does... My point is, we were bad with our starting roster and since then, we've added 5 AHLers to our roster... But, I like the youth

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12-11-2009, 10:05 PM
  #55
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Now if we can just figure out something to blame the rest of his season on, we can feel better about having an ECHL player on the roster.
No, the rest of it is just grabbing a scapegoat that tends to happen when a team plays poorly. He's still been the same energy guy that's he's always been.

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12-11-2009, 10:14 PM
  #56
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Heh, Dwyer hasn't even been playing on our first line... still love him back here though!

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12-11-2009, 10:42 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
No, the rest of it is just grabbing a scapegoat that tends to happen when a team plays poorly. He's still been the same energy guy that's he's always been.
Actually, if there is a scapegoat here, it's blaming an injury as the reason why LaRose hasn't been playing well *lately*...as if he earned his paycheck for the first 8 weeks of the season. In fact, I'd say his last game was significantly better than the beginning to his season.

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12-11-2009, 11:45 PM
  #58
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Of course he isn't earning his paycheck. He's being paid like a scorer and he's not one. If anyone seriously thought he'd repeat the numbers from last season, they were setting themselves up for disappointment. Especially when it became obvious the team was a bottom-feeder.

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Old
12-12-2009, 12:05 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Of course he isn't earning his paycheck. He's being paid like a scorer and he's not one. If anyone seriously thought he'd repeat the numbers from last season, they were setting themselves up for disappointment. Especially when it became obvious the team was a bottom-feeder.

HOW DARE U


Chad LaRose has scored at every level!


Yeah, I'll tell you what. If you're the Carolina Hurricanes, you've got to be appreciative of the fact that you've got a bonafide Top 6 forward like #59 locked up for the next couple of seasons.

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12-12-2009, 08:50 AM
  #60
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Samson is a RHS also. With the need for a fill in on the top line, and Samson likely needing a top 6 role if he was ever to stick at the NHL level, they brought up the wrong guy... strictly IMO.
That whole notion of having the ideal combination of wings on their off-wings is overblown and is well down the list of considerations. The vast majority of players are left-handed so it's nearly impossible to get the ideal balance of skill, role, and handedness. I think it's a bit more important on D, though hard to do at times there as well, and much more important with PP points but that becomes a school of thought debate, i.e., one-timers vs. keep-ins along the wall.

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He's still been the same energy guy that's he's always been.
But that IS the problem. His contract was in consideration for a playing a bigger role in all areas and he has excelled in only energy. His 19 goals were an aberration but expecting 10-12 goals with improvements in other areas was a very realistic expectation, and a needed one with his contract. To this point, regardless of the last couple of weeks with his injury, you could have easily substituted Dwyer and gotten the same results. But if it was Dwyer, you can bet he'd been getting more criticism than LaRose, who is still given a pass as the little-mutt-that-could status.

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12-12-2009, 06:53 PM
  #61
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Nah, Dwyer would get a pass because his expectations are low. No one's expecting him to go lighting up the league. Hell, I don't expect him to get 5 goals, no matter how long he's up here.

And yeah, 10-12 goals would be nice, but he's been relegated to the 4th line. Not that he deserves to be higher, but it's not exactly normal to expect that amount from the 4th line, especially when your linemates are Walker and Brindamour.

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12-12-2009, 07:22 PM
  #62
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how did he say it?
loos-ti

Which is probably correct in Czech Republic. Chuck always says he tries to pronounce it the way they do in their native language.

Edit: Chuck has changed to a very muted first "t" - tLOOS-ti


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12-12-2009, 11:01 PM
  #63
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he's been relegated to the 4th line. Not that he deserves to be higher, but it's not exactly normal to expect that amount from the 4th line, especially when your linemates are Walker and Brindamour.
Sorry, but this is garbage. Not only has he spent inexplicably little time on the "4th line", but getting an average of 15:30 TOI is significantly more than that of a 4th liner...at least one on this team.

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12-12-2009, 11:43 PM
  #64
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Sorry, but this is garbage. Not only has he spent inexplicably little time on the "4th line", but getting an average of 15:30 TOI is significantly more than that of a 4th liner...at least one on this team.
Agreed. LaRose has got plenty of opportunities to produce offensively this season and has done approximately nothing.

His shots on goal indicate he is getting lots of scoring chances but not finishing them. Why is that? Oh, because he's Chad LaRose and he has zero hands. He has an uncanny ability to **** up every scoring chance in the worst way possible.

And if he's not scoring, he needs to be doing SOMETHING to contribute to the team. Which he is most certainly not. His -14 is second worst only to Brind'amour and Brind'amour at least has the excuse of being on the ice for a number of empty net goals against. LaRose's coverage on his point-man is unbelievably terrible and he is the worst forward on the team at clearing the puck out of the zone. He bounces off all his checks. He has the hockey sense of a frog. He provides nothing.

Chad LaRose is a marginal player who got lucky in a contract year and was able to con JR into giving him $1.7m/yr. He's a 4th liner who has only managed to put up 3rd line numbers over the last few seasons because of excessive amounts of time on scoring lines due to the weakness at wing. Now he can't even do that.

It disgusts me that this joke of a hockey player is a "fan favorite" and has his own Bobblehead Night coming up. Of course, this injury will just give the LaRose fanboys an excuse to use.

I love how the drones at the RBC Center cheer him when ever he has the puck and is rushing up the ice. When has that EVER turned into anything? LaRose rushing the puck up the ice equals a dump-in about 95% of the time as he has Craig Adams-esque skating/puck-handling ability yet insists on lugging the puck up the ice until multiple defenders close in on him and he is forced to dump it in. The only time anything happens is if LaRose is on an odd-man rush, which in that case the result will be a bad angle shot on goal and an easy save.


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Old
12-12-2009, 11:48 PM
  #65
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Like I said, just another scapegoat for this year.

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Old
12-12-2009, 11:58 PM
  #66
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See the bolded part. I knew this would happen. I am always right.

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Originally Posted by imayagainknowanton View Post
LaRose scored 7 goals on his first 39 shots (18%), then 12 goals on his next 132 (9.1%). Including the playoffs that's 16 goals on his next 183 shots (8.7%). Once he cooled down from his hot streak at the beginning of the season, he shot at right around his career average. This is what most players do. They don't randomly learn how to shoot better at the age of 26/27, they just sometimes get lucky like Mike Ribeiro, Jordan Staal, Marek Svatos, Petr Prucha and all the other guys who had high shooting percentages and then came back down to earth the next season. "Opportunistic garbage goals" pretty much describes the extent of Chad LaRose's offensive ability.

He's a 15-goal energy guy, not a 20+ goal second liner. He has no history of shooting at this rate and his goals/SH% numbers came down as the season progressed. His assist totals went up, but it would have been pretty hard to get any lower than they were (3 assists in first 47 games).

That's another thing. Everybody talks about how we need to re-sign him because of his 20...er, 19 goals (I am sure glad he didn't hit 20; now we don't have to hear for the rest of the offseason about losing a "20 goal scorer") but very rarely do his 12 assists get brought up. How in the world do you play so often with two 20 goal scorers (both of whom got most of their goals at even strength) and only get 12 assists?

His point-per-game average was actually very similar to the year before, it's just that his numbers trended to goals rather than assists. To call it a "career year" is not only incorrect, it's also an insult to career years. He had 31 points. People make a big deal out of the 19 goals because that's what makes him look good. Only five fewer goals than Whitney, three more than Samsonov!!!...but a billion fewer assists.

And to deal with the high ES goal production: Chad LaRose just doesn't generate enough offense 5-on-5 to be considered a scoring line player. Despite his nice even strength goal totals, the number of goals his team scored with him on the ice was low. His 2.32 goals-for/60 at 5-on-5 was behind Cullen, Cole, Whitney, Ruutu and Staal (and a number of defensemen but I'm not including them). The only notable forward with a lower rate was Samsonov. The year before it was behind Cole, Williams, Staal, Cullen, Ruutu, Brind'amour and Whitney. So even if you ignore PP time he's still not on these guys' levels. 19 even strength/shorthanded goals is great, but his assist total was very low.

He's not a Top 6 forward and shouldn't be paid like one. Anything more than the $1.7M Eaves is making in the final year of his deal is overpayment. We're already paying Eaves to fill Chad LaRose's spot, so why pay Chad LaRose himself more to do the same thing?

He may be some great fan favorite now, but when he goes 12 games without a point (as he did from November 28 to December 23) or racks up a stunning 3 assists in his first 47 games (seriously, how is that even possible?) while making $2M+, fans will start to get on him like they do with Cole's frequent slumps. He's not a Top 6 forward but will be expected to produce like one while making that money, which means less money for actual Top 6 forwards.

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12-13-2009, 12:05 AM
  #67
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Me being right again:

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I think most people were/are fine with signing LaRose....at a price that makes sense for us. But it's very likely that he wants more than that. And why not? He can likely get it on the open market.

Last year I suggested signing Ruutu to the same deal that Kobasew got (2.0, 2.5, and 2.5) despite coming off a 32 point season. Why? Because I believed he had upside to the point where he would outperform that contract by a great margin.

Now with LaRose, I am suggesting that - despite having a similar 31 season - that he not even get close to that salary. He's not going to outperform any contract he gets, even a reasonable one. If he manages to have another career year he might score 40 points and that will be with substantial PP time that he's not going to get here.

We need guys that will outperform their deals. We have enough players that play below their contract level or right up to it and nothing more.

The problem is that the most goals he scored in any other season was 11. These "garbage goals" may very well dry up. He has shown no history past this season of being as opportunistic as he was.

His 11.1% shooting percentage this season wasn't that high for an offensive player, but it was high for being Chad LaRose. His previous career high was 9.4% and that number was inflated by having a hat trick in the second-to-last game of that season. His career shooting percentage outside of this year is 6.5%. Had Chad LaRose shot at 6.5% this season we'd not even be having this discussion as he'd already been signed to a cheap deal coming off an 11-goal season. We can talk all about Chad LaRose's grit, effort, and defensive play, but that's not why he's going to command a big salary. It's because he scored 19 goals. You can sign some random third/fourth liner off the market for $1M that can kill penalties and provide energy.

Chad LaRose's season this year was in many ways comparable to Kevyn Adams' back in '05-'06. Adams had 15 goals, all of which were even strength or shorthanded just like LaRose this year. And just like LaRose, those totals were higher than some of the top offensive players on the team (Brind'amour and Stillman had less than Adams). Adams shot at 9.4% that year, which was reasonable but higher than his career average...just like LaRose.

What if Adams was a UFA that year instead of still being under contract for the '06-'07 season? Do we sign him to a big multi-year deal? As it turns out, Adams dropped off the face of the earth after that season, scoring 3 goals in 95 games before retiring. Maybe we are stuck with him and his salary instead of being able to trade him for Seidenberg when he began to suck. Maybe we are talking about Kevyn Adams' hypothetically still-existing bad contract this offseason to go along with Brind'amour's, Kaberle's, Wallin's, and Walker's.

What if Chad LaRose comes back down to earth? I'm not saying he will never score 19 goals again, but having a season of 19 even strength/shorthanded goals likely isn't going to happen. And since he's never going to get powerplay time here with all the better wingers and better prospect wingers we have, we can't afford to pay him the going market rate of 19 goals.

Now compare him to Ruutu. Ruutu shot at 13.7% this season, but he also has previous seasons of of 14.8% and 13.2%. His career average is 12.8%. Ruutu, based on past history, is likely to repeat his career season if not outright surpass it. Yeah, he never had 54 points before but he also never had the quality of ice time to get those shot totals that he had this year.

Chad LaRose's role on the team isn't going to be bigger than it already is. He's not going to improve much more and may regress off this season. You don't sink money into someone who's not going to be able to outperform his deal.

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12-13-2009, 01:37 AM
  #68
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You also said that he shouldn't be paid more than the 1.7 we were paying Eaves, the amount that he's making at the moment. You also said that he'd ask for more because he could make it on the free market. Yet all the reports say he was offered more to play on other teams, but took his 1.7 to play in Carolina.

It's the first year of a contract, playing on a crappy team. He likely won't put up the numbers that apparently need to be put up to earn the contract (How many did Eaves put up?), but assuming we don't trade him (because he still has that energy reputation to other teams), I don't expect his contract to be an albatross ala Wallin/Kaberle.

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12-13-2009, 09:42 AM
  #69
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Nah, Dwyer would get a pass because his expectations are low. No one's expecting him to go lighting up the league. Hell, I don't expect him to get 5 goals, no matter how long he's up here.

And yeah, 10-12 goals would be nice, but he's been relegated to the 4th line. Not that he deserves to be higher, but it's not exactly normal to expect that amount from the 4th line, especially when your linemates are Walker and Brindamour.
You're missing the point. If Dwyer, like LaRose did, was getting 15+ min TTOI, and 13 min ESTOI which is the same as Ruutu and Cullen, he definitely would get blasted if he had 1 goal and 5 assists. Dwyer would not get a pass but would eventually get ripped endlessly because he doesn't have blindly loyal fan club which makes every excuse under the sun for him. Expectations come with the opportunity given.

LaRose was relegated to the 4th line because his play was terrible. Let's not confuse the chicken and the egg. So conversely, using your logic, why didn't he produce more when on better lines most of the year?

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12-13-2009, 12:29 PM
  #70
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http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=509741

Dwyer, Tlusty reassigned. We don't play again until Wednesday, so I guess one or both will be recalled then depending on the injury status. Might as well send them down and save a few bucks for the next couple days.

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12-13-2009, 12:35 PM
  #71
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You're missing the point. If Dwyer, like LaRose did, was getting 15+ min TTOI, and 13 min ESTOI which is the same as Ruutu and Cullen, he definitely would get blasted if he had 1 goal and 5 assists. Dwyer would not get a pass but would eventually get ripped endlessly because he doesn't have blindly loyal fan club which makes every excuse under the sun for him. Expectations come with the opportunity given.

LaRose was relegated to the 4th line because his play was terrible. Let's not confuse the chicken and the egg. So conversely, using your logic, why didn't he produce more when on better lines most of the year?
And when was that? He started the year playing with Brindamour and Samsonov for 2 games. Then it was Whitney and Cullen for 4 games. Then Samsonov and Cullen for a game, Walker and Cullen for a game, Staal and Whitney for 4 games, Sutter and TKO for a game, then back to Whitney and Cullen, etc.

There's a little thing called chemistry, and it's hard to build any when you've got new linemates every game (not including the switching during the game). I understand mixing up the lines to try and find that chemistry, but unless there's something really magical, it's not going to be an instant thing. There's a vast difference in the playstyles of Brindamour and Samsonov compared to Cullen and Whitney.

And it's not like LaRose wasn't trying early on. You can claim it's a lack of finish (again, not a scorer), but LaRose had THE worst luck early in the season. Either flat out robbed by the goalie or hitting the ever present post. Hell, the recap from the Tampa game where he scored his first said as much.

And then there's the other thing. During those 13 games, the team was outscored 51 to 26. Staal had 5 points, LaRose had 2. Staal averaged 21.49 per game, LaRose 16.04. The point being, the team has had a terrible time finding the back of the net this year. Last year, we were shutout 1 time during the entire regular season. In those 13 games, three times. No one's living up to expectations, so to single out LaRose because he isn't scoring is just looking for another scapegoat for a crappy season.

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12-13-2009, 02:09 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by DaleCooper View Post
http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=509741

Dwyer, Tlusty reassigned. We don't play again until Wednesday, so I guess one or both will be recalled then depending on the injury status. Might as well send them down and save a few bucks for the next couple days.
I wouldn't be surprised if Boychuk and Samson are called up for the game against the stars. That will give us a chance to see what all the kids can do without having all the rats up at once.

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12-13-2009, 02:29 PM
  #73
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And when was that? He started the year playing with Brindamour and Samsonov for 2 games. Then it was Whitney and Cullen for 4 games. Then Samsonov and Cullen for a game, Walker and Cullen for a game, Staal and Whitney for 4 games, Sutter and TKO for a game, then back to Whitney and Cullen, etc.

There's a little thing called chemistry, and it's hard to build any when you've got new linemates every game (not including the switching during the game). I understand mixing up the lines to try and find that chemistry, but unless there's something really magical, it's not going to be an instant thing. There's a vast difference in the playstyles of Brindamour and Samsonov compared to Cullen and Whitney.
Everybody has switched lines constantly and the same was true for LaRose much of last year. Your line of reasoning is really just a LaRose apologist's spin and it's pretty obvious. It's ok to criticize one of your favorite players, it really is.

He isn't be singled out, as plenty of guys are getting blasted. My point is that he shouldn't get a free pass because he is a fan favorite and has a nice story in making the NHL. Paint it any color you want, he hasn't been good this year. Period.


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12-13-2009, 02:36 PM
  #74
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I wouldn't be surprised if Boychuk and Samson are called up for the game against the stars. That will give us a chance to see what all the kids can do without having all the rats up at once.
I agree with that. It's good to give the kids a couple games here and there to get their feet wet. They'll likely get in a handful of games later on this season when we move some bodies, but until then giving them some time while we have some injuries isn't a bad idea. Especially for a guy like Samson who has never played an NHL game, same goes for Dodge. If we're going without Cole and LaRose, Samson and Dodge seem like perfect replacements for a few games. Even giving Boychuk another few games wouldn't hurt, he's not dominating in Albany, but the experience up here with the big club for a few games can help these guys. Same goes for Bowman, however after returning from injury he'd be better off staying in Albany to get his game back on track before we brought him up, but he'll get his time aswell. Chaput is another guy having a strong season in Albany who should see some games. Getting these guys some experience and a small cup full to see what it's like in the big league is never a bad idea, especially during a year like this.

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12-13-2009, 02:37 PM
  #75
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http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=509741

Dwyer, Tlusty reassigned. We don't play again until Wednesday, so I guess one or both will be recalled then depending on the injury status. Might as well send them down and save a few bucks for the next couple days.
They had to send out at least 1 of them because Leighton is on re-entry waiver so they had to clear a spot for him tomorrow if noone picks him up. Who knows what happens with the goat after that.

I would guess that Tlusty will be back for sure by Wednesday and all the Leighton stuff is done

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