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Old
12-11-2009, 12:52 PM
  #1
Sureves
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Ott-Nas-???

Read on senschirp.ca today that apparently Weber is unhappy in Nashville and would like to play for a Canadian team and that Ottawa is on the list of places he would like to play.

I thought I'd propose an offer, not sure if the value is fair or not but here it goes.

To Ottawa: Shea Weber

To Nashville: Michalek, 1st 2010, 1st 2010*

* This is under the assumption that this trade also occurs:

To Ottawa: 1st 2010

To ???: Karlsson

Why Ottawa does this: We finally get the franchise defenceman we've needed for...well, ever. We give up Michalek who by all means Sens fans I have loved here; he's been awesome but you have to give talent to get talent. We naturally give up our 2010 1st round pick, which is expected to receive a player of Weber's calibre. Since this trade involves gets us a franchise D, we no longer have any use for Karlsson since our back-end looks rock solid as follows:

Weber-Kuba
Phillips-Volchenkov
Campoli-Carkner

Why Nashville does this: Well, they don't really NEED to trade Weber, but this is just under the assumption that they do. They still have decent talent on the back-end with Suter, Hamuis, and Ellis in the prospect pool and their offense could seriously use the help of Michalek.

On a related note, assuming this trade happened, anyone interested in Karlsson for 1st? (this offer only stands under the assumption that the Weber trade happens)

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Old
12-11-2009, 12:55 PM
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mcallister
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Id rather give up Spezza than Michalek.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:02 PM
  #3
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I saw the rumour, and missed the part where it said Ottawa was on his list? I thought it only said he wanted to go to Canada. Whether or not its true, it was from a blog, hit or miss. Mostly miss. As far as I saw it, it wasnt a "pro sens" rumour, so maybe theres more chance there's truth to it.

I think any trade we would make for Weber, would absolutely have to include Jared Cowen. That said, we'd be lucky if Cowen ever turned into Weber. It could happen, Nashville was lucky Weber turned into Weber.

Im not proposing anything here, but I know a lot of Sens fans see it as imperative that we get a true franchise defencemen. I never thought it could happen unless it was through the draft, or if we got lucky.

I dont think we'd be able to pony up enough. I think Murray has too much pride in his draft picks to let go.

But for the Sens fan dreaming about getting this guy, lets be real here, what would it take. It would take a lot.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:04 PM
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Nashville says no definitely.

If we switched it to Suter it is probably yes

but then again I'd rather have the picks and Michalek over Weber or Suter

So you think you'd rather have

Weber over

Michalek+Karlsson+1st 2010

I guess I'd agreee with you for now, but no way would Ottawa make that trade

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:05 PM
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Honestly where do you guys come up with this crap? We're not trading Weber, he's not unhappy that I have ever heard and to say we don't need him is about as ridiculous.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:06 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcallister View Post
Id rather give up Spezza than Michalek.
Me too by a landslide. If we could somehow make Nashville look passed his salary, Id do it in a heart beat. We'd then have the burden of finding a new franchise center (although I personally dont think Spezza fills that role anyways), but its easier finding that then a franchise defencemen, although not much easier.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Me too by a landslide. If we could somehow make Nashville look passed his salary, Id do it in a heart beat. We'd then have the burden of finding a new franchise center (although I personally dont think Spezza fills that role anyways), but its easier finding that then a franchise defencemen, although not much easier.
Are you ****in kidding me??

You want to give up on Spezza after a bad start to the season?



I'm sorry, but Weber isn't worth Spezza and two 1sts

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:11 PM
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I'm also positive that Nashville would rather have Karlsson than the 1st unless it is top 3-5

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12-11-2009, 01:17 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingPredFan View Post
Honestly where do you guys come up with this crap? We're not trading Weber, he's not unhappy that I have ever heard and to say we don't need him is about as ridiculous.
Just mentioned as a rumor on the website senschirp. He doesn't have a great track record on rumors but then again he does disclaimer them all with the "this is just a rumor and not necessarily truth but I am hearing that..." The guy does have some inside connections as hes called a couple of signings and at least 3 trades before anyone else.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcallister View Post
Id rather give up Spezza than Michalek.
This

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:26 PM
  #11
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I would assume that if Weber was going to move Nashville would have a huge hole to fill on their blue line, and would go after some D and not a forward.

I would propose:

Kuba, Lee, 2nd (SJ)

For

Weber

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:29 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach 9 View Post
Are you ****in kidding me??

You want to give up on Spezza after a bad start to the season?



I'm sorry, but Weber isn't worth Spezza and two 1sts
Where did I say, Spezza and two 1sts?

See my post about my feelings about Jason Spezza in the Spezza thread on the Sens board. It has nothing to do with his bad start, although it makes it easier. I said it before the season began, I said it years ago (although much less because he was still 22,23,24)

Wed be trading a franchise center for a franchise defencemen. A franchise defencemen who would be the rightful face of our franchise and deservingly wear the C after Alfie retires. I never see Spezza rightfully being that guy. If you do, fine. But I disagree.

A franchise center who cant crack Team Canada whos making whatever 7-8 million a year, for a franchise defencemen who is a lock for Team Canada at 24 and if he continues as most people seem to think he will, will likely be wearing a letter on Team Canada in the future. Weber's making 4.5 until end of 2010-2011 i beleive.

It would take more than just Spezza. And when you consider it would likely force us to take some salary back from Nashville, it would likely end up taking a bit more from ourside to end up making it equal.

I dont think necesarily worth Spezza, Cowen. Spezza, Karlsson. Or Spezza, and 1st.

But when you imagine that wed have to be taking some salary back from Nashville to even out the values. It would up the requirement of our end of the deal.

I dont think Spezza would go in this deal. I dont know Nashville situation at all. But I do ultimately think getting rid of Spezza somehow eventually will take us one step back to go a few more steps forward. I know alot of people disagree. I dont get it though, but thats just me (a Sens fan realist) and most people who arent Sens fans.

That said, I doubt the legitimacy of the rumour. And the competition for this guy could possibily be pretty steep.

If the complete rumour is true. Id think Cody Fransons a more affordable option.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:31 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrass View Post
I would assume that if Weber was going to move Nashville would have a huge hole to fill on their blue line, and would go after some D and not a forward.

I would propose:

Kuba, Lee, 2nd (SJ)

For

Weber
Nashville would have to replace the front office after all the heart attacks that would result of them laughing at that proposal. No offence. Were gonna have to actually give something up that we wouldnt necesarily want to.

If Weber actually wants out, Nashville isnt THAT desperate to move him.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:33 PM
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Cowen
Ottawa 1st Round Pick
Volchenkov
Foligno

for

Weber
Dumont

?

Or is that too little for Weber? I was trying to get them a stud prospect in Cowen, a 1st Rounder, a D-man that they can try to sign or re-trade for more at the deadline and a young winger.

I would imagine that if we were to be able to do this (ha ha), they'd want Michalek, but I have to say, that's one guy we need to rebuild going forward.

I didn't even both putting Spezza in there because of his price tag, but by all means, if that's what it takes, let's do it.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:34 PM
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I would propose this

Campoli
Lee
Regin
2nd SJ
Conditional 1st ( Senators make it to the Eastern conference finals)

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach 9 View Post
I would propose this

Campoli
Lee
Regin
2nd SJ
Conditional 1st ( Senators make it to the Eastern conference finals)
You are delusional if you think Nashville even thinks about that

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:41 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach 9 View Post
I would propose this

Campoli
Lee
Regin
2nd SJ
Conditional 1st ( Senators make it to the Eastern conference finals)
Put yourself in Nashville's shoes. They would never do that. It's one of Cowen, Wiercioch or Karlsson. And it's probably their choice - and they choose Cowen.

So you start there and you begin adding onto that piece. Our 1st Rounder for sure. Volchenkov to replace Weber - or a piece Nashville can re-traded at the deadline for quite a bit. Foligno? Maybe, it's hard to say.

Boy, if this is true, I hope to heck Murray is ALL over this.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:41 PM
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You are delusional if you think Nashville even thinks about that

I guess change the conditional to a definite

and then why not?

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Put yourself in Nashville's shoes. They would never do that. It's one of Cowen, Wiercioch or Karlsson. And it's probably their choice - and they choose Cowen.

So you start there and you begin adding onto that piece. Our 1st Rounder for sure. Volchenkov to replace Weber - or a piece Nashville can re-traded at the deadline for quite a bit. Foligno? Maybe, it's hard to say.

Boy, if this is true, I hope to heck Murray is ALL over this.
I contemplated

Wiercioch
1st
Volchenkov

but didn't think they'd do that either

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:43 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Cowen
Ottawa 1st Round Pick
Volchenkov
Foligno

for

Weber
Dumont

?

Or is that too little for Weber? I was trying to get them a stud prospect in Cowen, a 1st Rounder, a D-man that they can try to sign or re-trade for more at the deadline and a young winger.

I would imagine that if we were to be able to do this (ha ha), they'd want Michalek, but I have to say, that's one guy we need to rebuild going forward.

I didn't even both putting Spezza in there because of his price tag, but by all means, if that's what it takes, let's do it.
Im no trade genius. If anything I think you may be being overly generous (surprised to say that). Given Volchenkovs situation, hes worth so much more to us as a very potential resign rather to another team as a potential free agent testing the market at the end of the year. Id rather keep him and sign him. I think he's loyal to us.

Whats Dumont worth?

I dont like putting Spezza in there because it would like require us to give up Cowen or Karlsson. Id part with Weircioch though, although I like him as a prospect.

Spezza, Weircioch, 2nd.

Weber, Dumont.

Still dont think thats fair really. Weber's a complete stud in my opinion. Is Weber make up for having a hole on the type line center? Fisher could fill in for now.

One thing Weber gives us over Spezza is credibility. May make it easier to make a top center signing. Weber likely eventually saves us money.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:45 PM
  #21
SpezDispenser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Im no trade genius. If anything I think you may be being overly generous (surprised to say that). Given Volchenkovs situation, hes worth so much more to us as a very potential resign rather to another team as a potential free agent testing the market at the end of the year. Id rather keep him and sign him. I think he's loyal to us.

Whats Dumont worth?

I dont like putting Spezza in there because it would like require us to give up Cowen or Karlsson. Id part with Weircioch though, although I like him as a prospect.

Spezza, Weircioch, 2nd.

Weber, Dumont.

Still dont think thats fair really. Weber's a complete stud in my opinion.
I think you said it yourself: that's not quite gonna do it.

I stand by my Cowen, 1st Rounder, Foligno, Volchenkov for Weber and Dumont. Everyone goes home happy and Nashville doesn't get fleeced.

For the first time since Chara the Sens have a bonafide stud on the backend - and someone to mentor Karlsson and Wiercioch (I hate that term) - and someone to make the PP instantly better.

EDIT: I threw Dumont in there because we need a top 6, but I could care less about him in the grand scheme. Weber! Give me Weber!

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I think you said it yourself: that's not quite gonna do it.

I stand by my Cowen, 1st Rounder, Foligno, Volchenkov for Weber and Dumont. Everyone goes home happy and Nashville doesn't get fleeced.

For the first time since Chara the Sens have a bonafide stud on the backend - and someone to mentor Karlsson and Wiercioch (I hate that term) - and someone to make the PP instantly better.

EDIT: I threw Dumont in there because we need a top 6, but I could care less about him in the grand scheme. Weber! Give me Weber!
Nashville does that

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:51 PM
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You are delusional if you think Nashville even thinks about that
I think - given we are only doing this for fun - that most of us sens fans have no idea what the preds would want.

- Roster players in return with near matching salary

- Roster players that don't match Salary-wise (putting the onus on sens cap-wise)

- mix of roster players + prospects with matching salaries

- picks and prospects

You can see the situation from the buyer perspective, the offer has to be tailored properly.

for instance, an offer of our top 2 way defenseman + our top prospect might be, for example

Phil Kuba
Eric Karlson

Is that the kind of offer preds would want ?

Or more like;

Alex Picard
Jared Cowen
Nick Foligno

I call that the 'cap-saver' because all the players would be cheap.

Whatever the actual players that would be in a deal, I think you have to decide what kind of package you want in return for a player of that caliber.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:53 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I think you said it yourself: that's not quite gonna do it.

I stand by my Cowen, 1st Rounder, Foligno, Volchenkov for Weber and Dumont. Everyone goes home happy and Nashville doesn't get fleeced.

For the first time since Chara the Sens have a bonafide stud on the backend - and someone to mentor Karlsson and Wiercioch (I hate that term) - and someone to make the PP instantly better.

EDIT: I threw Dumont in there because we need a top 6, but I could care less about him in the grand scheme. Weber! Give me Weber!
For a guy with Spezza in his name and avatar, I like how your valueing Weber as highly as you should be. Some people arent seeing Weber as highly as they should be...

Spezza, Weircioch, 1st. I think Nashville would be satisfied, but that first would lose an opportunity to draft a potential number 1 center. Hard for us to pull the trigger.

Basically I see your deal as too much because...
Cowen, potential future stud. At the same age, Weber was a similar prospect.
1st. Hate giving up firsts and could potentially be a 10-15 pick.
Foligno. Meh...but still a roster player.
Volchenkov. Nashville sees him as a rental. We would expect to sign him.

Regardless I wouldnt know what Murray's head would think of all this. But the deal is worthwhile for Nashville fairly. The key is likely what Murray thinks about resigning Volch, or Nashvilles beleif that they could sign Volch.

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Old
12-11-2009, 02:02 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
For a guy with Spezza in his name and avatar, I like how your valueing Weber as highly as you should be. Some people arent seeing Weber as highly as they should be...

Spezza, Weircioch, 1st. I think Nashville would be satisfied, but that first would lose an opportunity to draft a potential number 1 center. Hard for us to pull the trigger.

Basically I see your deal as too much because...
Cowen, potential future stud. At the same age, Weber was a similar prospect.
1st. Hate giving up firsts and could potentially be a 10-15 pick.
Foligno. Meh...but still a roster player.
Volchenkov. Nashville sees him as a rental. We would expect to sign him.

Regardless I wouldnt know what Murray's head would think of all this. But the deal is worthwhile for Nashville fairly. The key is likely what Murray thinks about resigning Volch, or Nashvilles beleif that they could sign Volch.
Goodness, Spezza, Wiercioch and a 1st? I'll drive Spezza to Nashville.

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