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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

December 2009 NHL Board of Governors meeting

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Old
12-16-2009, 04:59 PM
  #51
Fugu
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Originally Posted by RR View Post
I really wish Shoalts would stop making false statements for emphasis. He can make his case without lying.

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"Jones argues that before the team's debt spiralled out of control it broke even on the hockey operations. But even then the Coyotes could manage barely $20-million a year in ticket sales. Now, anyone who goes to a game says there are about 5,000 fans in the seats and it's anyone's guess how many paid the full price for their tickets
"Anyone who goes to a game" DOES NOT say there are about 5,000 fans in the seats. And people wonder why some of us read Shoalts so critically. He could have accurately said, "Now, some who go to a game claim there are about 5,000 fans in the seats and it's anyone's guess how many paid the full price for their tickets."
It's not just about the number of fans, RR, but how much revenue those tickets did bring in.... I find it tiresome to have people bringing up the attendance after every friggin' game, however that doesn't mean that this year is going to be extremely painful for mgt there, whoever that turns out to be. It was expected that it'd be painful. Is it accurate to say that the team may not bring in even $20 MM in ticket sales this year?

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12-16-2009, 05:05 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
It's not just about the number of fans, RR, but how much revenue those tickets did bring in.... I find it tiresome to have people bringing up the attendance after every friggin' game, however that doesn't mean that this year is going to be extremely painful for mgt there, whoever that turns out to be. It was expected that it'd be painful. Is it accurate to say that the team may not bring in even $20 MM in ticket sales this year?
at their current pace that would equate to about $50 average per seat(not taking into account the private suites of course. and giveaways
RR do you think they get that?
this is a sincere question.

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12-16-2009, 05:06 PM
  #53
LadyStanley
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http://blogs.mercurynews.com/sharks/...e-europe-trip/

Reaction from Sharks players on European games
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Players I talked with today said they weren’t aware that the Sharks were one of six NHL teams likely to open their season in Europe next October.
...
Douglas Murray hopes the game ends up in his hometown of Stockholm, but he knows there’s a potential downside.

“First reaction is it woujld be great,” Murray said. “I’ve got a lot of family and friends and it’s tough for them to make it over here.

“Seeing how some teams have done with that whole travel and stuff, I don’t know if I’m excited about that part of it,” Murray said, referring to the fact teams that have opened the season sometimes have struggled for a few weeks when they get back. “But it would be a good experience, especially playing in my hometown.”

The handful of players I talked with all liked the idea, though Joe Thornton pointed out that it’s an even longer flight for West Coast teams.
IIRC, it's an 8 hour flight from SFO to Heathrow via the polar route. So, probably ~9 hours of flying time to the continent. (That is, if their "new" 737 can make the trip non-stop. Or they charter a larger plane, say a 757.)

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12-16-2009, 05:49 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
It's not just about the number of fans, RR, but how much revenue those tickets did bring in.... I find it tiresome to have people bringing up the attendance after every friggin' game, however that doesn't mean that this year is going to be extremely painful for mgt there, whoever that turns out to be. It was expected that it'd be painful. Is it accurate to say that the team may not bring in even $20 MM in ticket sales this year?
My point was specific to Shoalts' continuous misstatements. The issue is and should be revenue generated by ticket sales so why, in the middle of raising that issue, does Shoalts make a false statement that anyone who goes to a game says there are 5,000 in the seats?

My belief is he is less interested in facts and more interested in continually backhanding the NHL, the Coyotes, and their fans.

As to your question, I will be SHOCKED if ticket sales get anywhere close to $20M this season, unless we somehow get four or five home playoff games, but that would require making it past the first round.

The 2009-10 season is lost when it comes to revenues and attendance. No matter how much better things get from here on out, May through October was lost to the bankruptcy and won't be made up. Once ownership gets settled, 2010-11 becomes the baseline for looking at how this franchise is doing, and comparisons can begin in 2011-12. The 2009-10 season is irrelevant, IMO, because the numbers are so totally skewed.

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Originally Posted by vivianmb View Post
at their current pace that would equate to about $50 average per seat(not taking into account the private suites of course. and giveaways
RR do you think they get that?
this is a sincere question.
As I said to Fugu, I think four to five home playoff games would be the only hope of getting close to that number this year.

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12-16-2009, 06:01 PM
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Ken King (Calgary Flames)- Saskatoon probably a no go

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/col...81136-qmi.html

Quote:
As part of the Ice Edge deal, playing five Coyotes home games in Saskatoon will be discussed, but has not been well-received by the governors.

“Whether or not that will ever come to pass is very highly speculative,” said Calgary Flames president Ken King. “Based on what we heard, it is not something that I think is likely to happen.”

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12-16-2009, 08:03 PM
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LadyStanley
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http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2009/12/16/s...nada-for-2011/

Looks like Canada will get a "Winter Classic" game (perhaps part of the Hockey Day in Canada) in 2011.

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12-16-2009, 09:53 PM
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http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=510175

Sharks comment on BOG meetings, possibly starting season in Europe.
Quote:
We would have three preseason games here, three on the road and one in Europe,” said Jamison of the scenario if it happened. There would be a couple of days rest before the first European game and then proper rest surrounding games upon returning to the United States.
Last year the Sharks played 3 home preseason games, 4 away -- so the total number wouldn't change.

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12-17-2009, 10:08 AM
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http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...-says-to-leafs

Bettman "rules" on interpretation of NHL constitution/bylaws WRT relocation/expansion:
Quote:
In possibly his strongest statement ever on the rights of the Leafs to control their territory, Bettman made it abundantly clear Wednesday there is no veto of any kind for Larry Tanenbaum and friends to exercise if the league decides it would be beneficial to put another team into the lucrative GTA market.

"There is no veto," Bettman said after an uneventful two-day board of governors meeting wrapped up. "There are two votes that, from a constitutional and bylaw standpoint, would be important. The relocation of a franchise requires a majority vote. Period. End of story. No veto. The granting of an expansion team, because that's also a new owner and a new team, requires a three-quarter vote. No vetoes. I understand that there's ongoing confusion about that point but there shouldn't be."

The issue of a second team in Toronto – or expanding to Quebec City or any other Canadian location – simply didn't arise in any meaningful way at these meetings. In fact, the only way in which Canada generated discussion was as the site for a second outdoor game next season – the Leafs want it, Calgary seems to be the favourite – and the proposal from the group seeking to buy the Phoenix Coyotes to play five games in Saskatoon to raise funds and subsidize the team in Arizona.
And WRT neutral site games in Saskatoon:
Quote:
"We're going to have to evaluate whether or not, a) we're comfortable with a neutral site component; and b) whether or not we're comfortable with this neutral site component," said Bettman of the Saskatoon concept.
...
Playing games in Saskatoon, then, would seem a curious downscale for the NHL, which has embraced playing winter games in large football stadiums. Both Calgary and Edmonton might not be wild about an infringement on what they perceive to be part of their territory and the NHL Players' Association would also have to give the move a thumbs up, while rival teams in the Pacific Division would face new travel demands.


Last edited by LadyStanley: 12-17-2009 at 10:16 AM.
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Old
12-17-2009, 11:04 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...-says-to-leafs

Bettman "rules" on interpretation of NHL constitution/bylaws WRT relocation/expansion:


And WRT neutral site games in Saskatoon:
Quote:
In possibly his strongest statement ever on the rights of the Leafs to control their territory, Bettman made it abundantly clear Wednesday there is no veto of any kind for Larry Tanenbaum and friends to exercise if the league decides it would be beneficial to put another team into the lucrative GTA market.
Maybe it's just me, but I would have thought that testifying and providing depositions and sworn declarations to that same effect under penalty of perjury would constitute stronger statements than statements in a press conference, but that's just me. The media is pretty funny sometimes.

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Old
12-17-2009, 11:13 AM
  #60
Fugu
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I would have thought that testifying and providing depositions and sworn declarations to that same effect under penalty of perjury would constitute stronger statements than statements in a press conference, but that's just me. The media is pretty funny sometimes.
You have to admit that the NHL's own counsel muddied the issue a bit by making a distinction between relocation and expansion. If I recall, it was reported that he said the issue about the veto seemed only applicable to relocation, not expansion. Still, we know the Leafs have gone on the NHL's record to "protect their interests"-- not that I expect the issue to ever be tested either way.

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