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Can Benoit Pouliot be our Gilbert Brule?

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Old
12-11-2009, 11:50 PM
  #1
RE-HABS
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Can Benoit Pouliot be our Gilbert Brule?

Gilbert Brule seems to be coming into the player he was suppose to be after leaving the Columbus system under Hitchcock....can Benoit Pouliot be that player for the Habs since he left the Wild organization and system too???

Let's hope!

If he can be a player who is an effective 2nd liner with 50 point potential we are laughing and not regretting this trade at all.

Let's hope!

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12-11-2009, 11:53 PM
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I'm sure that Martin can find a way to put him in a position for him to thrive in Montreal. His track record with this team's young players is pretty good (Pacioretty, Kostitsyns, O'byrne, Latendresse )

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12-11-2009, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermamoud View Post
I'm sure that Martin can find a way to put him in a position for him to thrive in Montreal. His track record with this team's young players is pretty good (Pacioretty, Kostitsyns, O'byrne, Latendresse )
The others you mention outside of Lats are doing well.

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12-12-2009, 12:25 AM
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Erik Estrada
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Gilbert Brule seems to be coming into the player he was suppose to be after leaving the Columbus system under Hitchcock....can Benoit Pouliot be that player for the Habs since he left the Wild organization and system too???

Let's hope!

If he can be a player who is an effective 2nd liner with 50 point potential we are laughing and not regretting this trade at all.

Let's hope!
I think the Habs are very high on him. The way the trade went down, Habs weren't looking as much to dump Latendresse as to get Pouliot. The timeline would suggest they were looking to get the best player more than the Wild who had first and foremost a critical need to fill.

Here's the timeline

Last summer

Jacques Martin leaves his role as Florida GM to take over as coach on June 1st 2009. Fletcher takes over as Wild GM and starts discussing Pouliot with BG in July. In July, BG signs Latendresse to a reduced salary. It's also known that Latendresse is on the market since at least October.

On November 7, Latendresse officially enters JM's doghouse. I can only speculate that some element of his game didn't jive with JM's system. Was it his speed? Not wanting to play the role he was assigned? Something else? Who knows... From an average of over 12 minutes a game, his minutes are dropped to under 9 for the following games...

Wild injuries

Meanwhile, the Wild have had a difficult start to their season. They're struggling offensively with a depleted lineup. Havlat and Bélanger are in slumps. They've had Bouchard out all year with a severe concussion and Sykora's also out.

Then things get bad to worse. In mid-November, forwards start falling like flies. Kobasew goes down (Robbie Earl replaces him from Houston) and then Pouliot goes down on November 13 (and they're forced to move John Scott to forward). The Wild are already at the cap wall and anyways have little to barter to help up front.

The next day, November 14, Latendresse is told to sit before being woken up 1 hour before the game as an injury fill in. Pierre Gauthier is in Raleigh (North Carolina) for the Wild game on November 15... "NINE scouts here today. As Montreal's Pierre Gauthier quipped to me in the press room, "Let's start a rumor." (http://www.startribune.com/blogs/701...L7PQLanchO7DiU). Another week passes before the deal is finalized...

Closing the deal

That night in Raleigh, the Wild lose to the Canes who came in the game with 14 straight loss (tying a 30 year franchise record). The Wild then lose to Phoenix with Danny Irmen as a new forward callup. Havlat goes down with a strained hamstring after that game. Later, Owen Nolan will play bruised.

Most of the injured forward are not even well enough to practice. The Minnesota press reports Pouliot can't even hold his stick... Nathan Smith is called up. Except for their first line, scoring has run dry... All hell is breaking loose at practice. Sticks are broken, thrown in the stands...

After a 3-2 win vs the Isles, Fletcher goes into emergency repair mode. He picks up Andrew Ebbett off waivers on November 21. When Ebbett had been waived earlier in the season the Wild had not put a waiver claim... Then the Pouliot trade goes to press on November 23.


Last edited by Erik Estrada: 12-12-2009 at 12:40 AM.
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Old
12-12-2009, 12:42 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I think the Habs are very high on him. The way the trade went down, Habs weren't looking as much to dump Latendresse as to get Pouliot. The timeline would suggest they were looking to get the best player more than the Wild who had first and foremost a critical need to fill.

Here's the timeline

Last summer

Jacques Martin leaves his role as Florida GM to take over as coach on June 1st 2009. Fletcher takes over as Wild GM and starts discussing Pouliot with BG in July. In July, BG signs Latendresse to a reduced salary. It's also known that Latendresse is on the market since at least October.

On November 7, Latendresse officially enters JM's doghouse. I can only speculate that some element of his game didn't jive with JM's system. Was it his speed? Not wanting to play the role he was assigned? Something else? Who knows... From an average of over 12 minutes a game, his minutes are dropped to under 9 for the following games...

Wild injuries

Meanwhile, the Wild have had a difficult start to their season. They're struggling offensively with a depleted lineup. Havlat and Bélanger are in slumps. They've had Bouchard out all year with a severe concussion and Sykora's also out.

Then things get bad to worse. In mid-November, forwards start falling like flies. Kobasew goes down (Robbie Earl replaces him from Houston) and then Pouliot goes down on November 13 (and they're forced to move John Scott to forward). The Wild are already at the cap wall and anyways have little to barter to help up front.

The next day, November 14, Latendresse is told to sit before being woken up 1 hour before the game as an injury fill in. Pierre Gauthier is in Raleigh (North Carolina) for the Wild game on November 15... "NINE scouts here today. As Montreal's Pierre Gauthier quipped to me in the press room, "Let's start a rumor." (http://www.startribune.com/blogs/701...L7PQLanchO7DiU). Another week passes before the deal is finalized...

Closing the deal

That night in Raleigh, the Wild lose to the Canes who came in the game with 14 straight loss (tying a 30 year franchise record). The Wild then lose to Phoenix with Danny Irmen as a new forward callup. Havlat goes down with a strained hamstring after that game. Later, Owen Nolan will play bruised.

Most of the injured forward are not even well enough to practice. The Minnesota press reports Pouliot can't even hold his stick... Nathan Smith is called up. Except for their first line, scoring has run dry... All hell is breaking loose at practice. Sticks are broken, thrown in the stands...

After a 3-2 win vs the Isles, Fletcher goes into emergency repair mode. He picks up Andrew Ebbett off waivers on November 21. When Ebbett had been waived earlier in the season the Wild had not put a waiver claim... Then the Pouliot trade goes to press on November 23.
Dude, your post reads like some NSA report. Oustanding job

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Old
12-12-2009, 12:43 AM
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Very interesting post Erik Estrada.

So Minnesota was so desperate for healthy players that they traded Pouliot for Latendresse?

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12-12-2009, 12:48 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Very interesting post Erik Estrada.

So Minnesota was so desperate for healthy players that they traded Pouliot for Latendresse?
They needed a finisher that could help them right away. They were creating opportunities but couldn't finish. Latendresse had a track record of putting 16, 16 and 14 goals in the net at the NHL level. They needed to find that type of scoring without having a penny of salary coming their way.

I think they were looking more for his scoring touch than his physicality. The fact they picked up Ebbett downsized their roster, so Lats size certainly helped also.

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12-12-2009, 12:54 AM
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Someone said that Pouliot and Martin are familiar with each other and that was probably the main reason we acquired him. If anyone can turn his game around it will be Martin.

Brule is looking like an absolute steal, now if they could only get O'sullivan scoring.

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12-12-2009, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Very interesting post Erik Estrada.

So Minnesota was so desperate for healthy players that they traded Pouliot for Latendresse?
Not that I've ever been high on Latendresse, but let's run with the Wild being "desperate" to do something. Given that they are right up against the cap, an $800K forward with size who has proven 15+ goal talent who is healthy and still RFA is a pretty decent plug in a hole that seemed likely to bust open further. Especially from Minny's perspective; Pouliot being injured and having never impressed/fit in with coaches and management there. As I, and others, have been saying: the risk and possible reward were both highest on BG's side (pretty sure Minny went into this eyes wide open to the fact that history might show Pouliot to be the "better" player), but didn't damage the 2009 incarnation of the Habs so why not?

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12-12-2009, 01:00 AM
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I would like to point out that Latendresse has no point and is -2 in his 5 last games.

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12-12-2009, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
First and foremost, this is a great post. Thanks.
I really like the way you put things in perspective.

Something must have happened on nov 3rd or 5th because in the two previous games, he did two points.
On Nov 3rd he played 2:47 with Gomez and Gionta and 9:04 with Plekanec and Lapierre (5-4 lost against Atlanta, Lats did 1 hit (Habs did 26!)).
On Nov5th, he played 9:53 with Plekanec and Lapierre (2-1 win against the Bruins, Latendresse with 1 hit again (out of 23 hits)).

I remember around that time, Martin did talk about the need for Lats to be more physical.
I don't know what happened. But I know the way he plays in Minnesota is much more to his liking than the way he played in Montreal.

I caught a few periods of some of his Minnesota games. He plays less of a bump and grind style and concentrates in scavenging the slot for errant pucks or sinking quick passes from his linemates.

Instead of Lapierre, Chipchura, he's played quite a bit with Havlat. He also gets much more powerplay time (with the injuries, the Wild had big problems in this area before the trade).

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12-12-2009, 02:49 AM
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I don't expect many young players to develop into genuine top 6 talent in Montreal (actual top 6, not Montreal top 6).

Montreal is going to have to trade/sign proven top 6 talent if they want to fill those sorts of roles.

They just don't have a very good track record when it comes to developing top 6 players.

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12-12-2009, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Foric View Post
I don't expect many young players to develop into genuine top 6 talent in Montreal (actual top 6, not Montreal top 6).

Montreal is going to have to trade/sign proven top 6 talent if they want to fill those sorts of roles.

They just don't have a very good track record when it comes to developing top 6 players.
I would argue that Plekanec, and Akost are solid top6 talent that we developed. Pacioretty looks like he might get there in the near future.
But I don't see us developing any star status players at the forward position.

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12-12-2009, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by LouisJCloutier View Post
I would like to point out that Latendresse has no point and is -2 in his 5 last games.
the glow is gone already...

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12-12-2009, 08:06 AM
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I don't expect many young players to develop into genuine top 6 talent in Montreal (actual top 6, not Montreal top 6).

Montreal is going to have to trade/sign proven top 6 talent if they want to fill those sorts of roles.

They just don't have a very good track record when it comes to developing top 6 players.
Plekanec says hello.

And who's proven and who's not? Carbo? Lever? Julien?

FYI, the coach is now Jacques Martin (Hossa, Spezza, Alfie) and already he has made progress with Pleks, Pac and AK.

As for Ham, its now Guy Boucher, not Lever.

So what do you base this on????? Just the organization itself, not the individuals working for it?

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12-12-2009, 08:37 AM
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You never know whether the player has simply not been put in a position to thrive (Brule) or if he actually is just lacking in talent (Chipchura)... I wasn't following hockey as close as I am now back in 2005 so I don't know how hyped Pouliot was, and still don't really know much about his skill set. With Brule he had skills, Chipchura did not.

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12-12-2009, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I don't know what happened. But I know the way he plays in Minnesota is much more to his liking than the way he played in Montreal.

I caught a few periods of some of his Minnesota games. He plays less of a bump and grind style and concentrates in scavenging the slot for errant pucks or sinking quick passes from his linemates.

Instead of Lapierre, Chipchura, he's played quite a bit with Havlat. He also gets much more powerplay time (with the injuries, the Wild had big problems in this area before the trade).
Well we know that isn't happening. He will be in the AHL next year. Plain and simple, he doesn't have it. Pierre Dagenais used to score goals sometimes also.

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12-12-2009, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I think the Habs are very high on him. The way the trade went down, Habs weren't looking as much to dump Latendresse as to get Pouliot. The timeline would suggest they were looking to get the best player more than the Wild who had first and foremost a critical need to fill.

(...)
Nice summary, however, based on this article by Mathias Brunet this morning, it does seem like he was shopped around. Latendresse mentions he was barely playing over 5 minutes and then, on a night where an unusually high amount of scouts show up, he's suddenly playing over 14 minutes... Could be only circumstancial though.

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12-12-2009, 01:25 PM
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Erik Estrada
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Nice summary, however, based on this article by Mathias Brunet this morning, it does seem like he was shopped around. Latendresse mentions he was barely playing over 5 minutes and then, on a night where an unusually high amount of scouts show up, he's suddenly playing over 14 minutes... Could be only circumstancial though.
Latendresse was shopped around since at least October... The game he's probably referring to is the Nov. 17 game vs Carolina. That's the game right after after the Hotel incident and Pierre Gauthier's trip to Raleigh, North Carolina. He had played under 9 minutes the prior 4 games (as low as 5:28) and played under 7 minutes for his two (last) games after.

My claim is the decisive factor that made this deal possible is Pouliot's injury not Latendresse's falling out with JM. I don't think the Wild would have done the deal otherwise. (What closed the deal was the worsening Wild injury situation and cap pressure). Otherwise, why would Pierre Gauthier be all over the Wild right at the precise moment Pouliot goes down with a moderately serious injury?


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12-12-2009, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Gilbert Brule seems to be coming into the player he was suppose to be after leaving the Columbus system under Hitchcock....can Benoit Pouliot be that player for the Habs since he left the Wild organization and system too???

Let's hope!

If he can be a player who is an effective 2nd liner with 50 point potential we are laughing and not regretting this trade at all.

Let's hope!
I thought to myself the exact same thing this week : same draft, forward with upside, been up and down the minors, doesn't developp well, leaves organisation gets a fresh start then things click and off he goes !

I haven't seen him play much and have no idea what he's made of. But as you said, let's hope !

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Old
12-12-2009, 02:48 PM
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Wait a second...Doesn't Brule really suck according to everyone on this board?

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12-12-2009, 03:32 PM
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Wait a second...Doesn't Brule really suck according to everyone on this board?
He used too

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12-12-2009, 03:36 PM
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Well, in styles of play - absolutely not. Pouliot is a big man who plays small and Brule is the opposite.

Now in terms of development, let's hope so. It might work out, Martin's obviously got some respect for Pouliot's abilities and this trade was essentially down to him, it's quite clear.

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12-12-2009, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Gilbert Brule seems to be coming into the player he was suppose to be after leaving the Columbus system under Hitchcock....can Benoit Pouliot be that player for the Habs since he left the Wild organization and system too???

Let's hope!

If he can be a player who is an effective 2nd liner with 50 point potential we are laughing and not regretting this trade at all.

Let's hope!
Well, it's a very curious process going so far. Looks like the Habs are setting up Pouliot for success and good on them.
Both players have their tools but I feel that Pouliot has a bigger selection. Lats was the love child of the press and withthe help of those pro camp he is known for, it was easy sale in the start of a season.
Will Latendresse be on the top line? playing with Koivu? this year with Plekanec or Gomez? What about his bud Lapierre?
Until we see Pouliot play, it's hard to gage his spot on the team. Martin his all over the place with his line combo but it looks statigic(don't know why it does but to me it does) It almost looks like if you play here or their, this is your role....ends there.
So I finish by asking you all what will be Pouliot's role on the team?

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12-12-2009, 05:36 PM
  #25
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He used too
not really. its called HF syndrome. Any high pick who isn't a first line player by the age 21 is a bust.

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