HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

FarmSystem?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-13-2004, 12:41 PM
  #1
33teddy33
Registered User
 
33teddy33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 116
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to 33teddy33 Send a message via AIM to 33teddy33 Send a message via Yahoo to 33teddy33
FarmSystem?

How does the Ranger farm produce a first place team, yet the Rags don't make the playoffs? Am I crazy? Sorry, I realize its a dead horse..... but.....
:mad: f-sather!

33teddy33 is offline  
Old
04-13-2004, 02:04 PM
  #2
Skroob*
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,064
vCash: 500
Coaching.

Skroob* is offline  
Old
04-13-2004, 02:06 PM
  #3
Forechecker
Registered User
 
Forechecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 4,322
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Forechecker
Players who have something to prove?

Forechecker is offline  
Old
04-13-2004, 02:48 PM
  #4
ddheyman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Cliffside Park, NJ
Posts: 374
vCash: 500
Although I hate Sather, one has nothing to do with the other ... a good "farm team" denotes nothing in regards to the NHL team except that either prospects who should be in the NHL are in the AHL or that they have boat loads of veteran players.

The "farm system" is an asset for a team to use either (1) to develop players or (2) to use players in trades. Look at Colorado and Detriot ... would anyone say they have good farm systems? It depends on what you are asking. Do they develop talent for the big team and help to acquire other assets? YES. Do they win AHL championships? NO. Does that mean they are not successful? I would think that everyone would say they are successful in their goal, which is to use the AHL team to strengthen the NHL team ... not to win the Calder Cup (is that the AHL Cup?).

ddheyman is offline  
Old
04-13-2004, 02:59 PM
  #5
Burberry Manning
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Summit NJ-The Elite
Country: United States
Posts: 2,053
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skroob
Coaching.
Well coaching is a huge reason why our NHL has sucked, but it hasnt been the reason why the differance in winning between the two clubs is so vastly differant. Many players on our Wolfpack club are phenominal AHL players but they just arent NHL material for some reason or another. Gernander, LaBarbera, last year's Armstrong.....ect. Ya cant blame coaching for ALL of this franchise's problems

Burberry Manning is offline  
Old
04-13-2004, 03:37 PM
  #6
BDubinskyNYR17*
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BDubinskyNYR17*
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleeding blue
Well coaching is a huge reason why our NHL has sucked, but it hasnt been the reason why the differance in winning between the two clubs is so vastly differant. Many players on our Wolfpack club are phenominal AHL players but they just arent NHL material for some reason or another. Gernander, LaBarbera, last year's Armstrong.....ect. Ya cant blame coaching for ALL of this franchise's problems

Look at Armstrong's stats the past 2 years in the NHL. Rangers Sather never game him a chance, he got the chance for the Kings to prove and look what he has done.

2002-03 66 12 26 38 30
03-04 57 14 21 35 33


not as bad as people make it to be.

BDubinskyNYR17* is offline  
Old
04-13-2004, 05:08 PM
  #7
Park #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41
Look at Armstrong's stats the past 2 years in the NHL. Rangers Sather never game him a chance, he got the chance for the Kings to prove and look what he has done.

2002-03 66 12 26 38 30
03-04 57 14 21 35 33


not as bad as people make it to be.
He also played for the Islanders and Sens prior to Rangers remember....

And like many good AHL players, Armstrong can substitute if needed on an NHL team. The Kings didn't "Give him a chance", truth be told they battled injury after injury and were all but forced to play him. He's done pretty well with the chance, but by no means is more then a fringe NHL player or a good AHL player - which he has been for the last decade.

Park #2 is offline  
Old
04-13-2004, 05:44 PM
  #8
Hockeycrazed07
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Buena Vista, VA
Posts: 2,361
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Hockeycrazed07 Send a message via AIM to Hockeycrazed07 Send a message via Yahoo to Hockeycrazed07
...then there's Ekman...he makes me happy that Salami is in Colorado. I'm not a Sharks fan, but I go to the games hoping to see the boys busting their bums, and Ek does that a lot more than Captain Turnover ever did.

~Crazed.

Hockeycrazed07 is offline  
Old
04-13-2004, 06:12 PM
  #9
Janerixon
Registered User
 
Janerixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,723
vCash: 500
Its pretty clear that coaching is the reason we didnt make the playoffs, yeah we didnt play utes with vets and get a good mix of hardwork with experience and skill, but regardless if we had a good coach who demanded effort and installed a system, any system, and only played players who deserved or who obliged to the system, then we would be a playoff team regardless of the names

if there is one other reason we didnt make the playoffs, it would be lack of quality goaltending, with richter being hurt, blackie being overused and guys like mclean, hebert, mclennan, and even dunham being viewed as stopgaps, sather was clearly wrong... this must be addressed this summer, because regardless of whether or not we hire robo, quenville, nolan, or whoever we need a goalie who will win some games for us, dunham won a few games for us, he was excellent in the win in NJ and prob ill say 3 islander games and maybe a few more... thats not enough

now until these 2 items are sorted out, how good hartford is remains meaningless, whats the point of having a structured system in the minors if when they are called up they are just told, go out there and do your best? thats not enough

i could care less about who did and didnt get their chance the last 4 years because none of them would have pushed a vet out of the lineup, so what does it matter? for once things may be different and depending on how sather sees it, were not even sure of that

all i ask for is a good coach (quenville, robo, nolan, maurice, or francis) and that we buy-out dunham and get a reliable goalie, that will at least keep us in games, ill have no problem losing with kids as long as they are being properly coached and we have a goalie that gives them a chance

Janerixon is offline  
Old
04-13-2004, 07:27 PM
  #10
NYR469
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,785
vCash: 500
the key young players that lead to hartford being a first place team haven't made it to the nhl yet and many of them are in the first or 2nd years as pros...

so you'll see the results of having a 1st place team in the AHL in a few years, good or bad...

and in the past the rangers never let kids play and just went out and signed overpriced free agents. you can have the 25 best prospects in the world in your system, if you don't play them it doesn't do you any good

NYR469 is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 03:19 AM
  #11
majicpixie
Registered User
 
majicpixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Tardis
Country: United States
Posts: 1,571
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to majicpixie Send a message via AIM to majicpixie Send a message via MSN to majicpixie
I can give you a few reasons:

Coaching, Jason LaBarbera, and of course...Chad Wiseman!

majicpixie is offline  
Old
04-15-2004, 10:23 AM
  #12
Harry
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by majicpixie
I can give you a few reasons:

Coaching, Jason LaBarbera, and of course...Chad Wiseman!
Has anyone heard anything re the negotiations with Umbarger?

Wish sather would give the fenoms a chance rather than constantly bringing in used up egos.

Harry is offline  
Old
04-15-2004, 10:49 AM
  #13
Shadowtron
Registered User
 
Shadowtron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33teddy33
How does the Ranger farm produce a first place team, yet the Rags don't make the playoffs? Am I crazy? Sorry, I realize its a dead horse..... but.....
:mad: f-sather!
Career AHL'ers

Shadowtron is offline  
Old
04-15-2004, 11:21 AM
  #14
free0717
Registered User
 
free0717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Old Bridge, NJ
Posts: 2,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry
Has anyone heard anything re the negotiations with Umbarger?

Wish sather would give the fenoms a chance rather than constantly bringing in used up egos.

Umberger will not be signed till after the June 2nd deadline. This will give the rangers another 2nd round choice no. 46 overall. Umberger is asking for the Maximum, so if we give him the maximum, we could sign him easily after June 2nd.

Alot of talk about Umbergers questionalble attitude however if we hire Mcgill/Fotiu to coach, that attitude problem will be taken care of. Nick Fotiu will gladly provide whatever attitude adjustment necessary.

free0717 is offline  
Old
04-15-2004, 01:03 PM
  #15
Harry
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
Umberger will not be signed till after the June 2nd deadline. This will give the rangers another 2nd round choice no. 46 overall. Umberger is asking for the Maximum, so if we give him the maximum, we could sign him easily after June 2nd.

Alot of talk about Umbergers questionalble attitude however if we hire Mcgill/Fotiu to coach, that attitude problem will be taken care of. Nick Fotiu will gladly provide whatever attitude adjustment necessary.
I agree. He wore out his welcome in Vancouver fast. Burke was prepared to just let him walk. Sees himself as a sure fire superstar. Not sure if he has the heart for it though. We'll see i guess. The year off sure wont help. Wonder if he is getting bad advise from his agent. Guys like him should be playing hockey.

Harry is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 11:54 AM
  #16
Dgrohl8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 129
vCash: 500
Wise Man

Mark my words Chad Wiseman will be a top 2 line forward

Dgrohl8 is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 05:11 PM
  #17
majicpixie
Registered User
 
majicpixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Tardis
Country: United States
Posts: 1,571
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to majicpixie Send a message via AIM to majicpixie Send a message via MSN to majicpixie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgrohl8
Mark my words Chad Wiseman will be a top 2 line forward
Finally someone agrees with me. Thank you very much!! You are my new best friend!

majicpixie is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 05:28 PM
  #18
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,340
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by majicpixie
Finally someone agrees with me. Thank you very much!! You are my new best friend!
majicpixie and dgrohl8, sittin' in a tree...

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 05:31 PM
  #19
kickice
Registered User
 
kickice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orange County, NY
Country: Wales
Posts: 537
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to kickice
they don't say WHERE Chad will be a top 2 line forward. Could be the ECHL?

kickice is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 10:24 PM
  #20
majicpixie
Registered User
 
majicpixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Tardis
Country: United States
Posts: 1,571
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to majicpixie Send a message via AIM to majicpixie Send a message via MSN to majicpixie
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
majicpixie and dgrohl8, sittin' in a tree...
W-A-T-C-H-I-N-G Hockey!!

majicpixie is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 06:56 AM
  #21
free0717
Registered User
 
free0717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Old Bridge, NJ
Posts: 2,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgrohl8
Mark my words Chad Wiseman will be a top 2 line forward
Does Wiseman have the jets to be a top 2 line forward???

free0717 is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 08:16 AM
  #22
Lowetide
Registered User
 
Lowetide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,281
vCash: 500
The Rangers problem is that they treat the procurement of talent as a vehicle to acquire stars, and not as a foundation for future success. In any 5 year period going back to the 60s, the NYR list of prospects is stunning, and yet they're always trading people away.

If you look at the NYR's prospect list from two years ago (looking at HN's Future Watch), what has happened? Here's the 10 (March 1, 2002):

1. Tyutin; 2. Lundmark; 3. G Murray; 4. Heisten; 5. Fata; 6. P Auferio; 7. Novak; 8. Mattau; 9. D Moore; 10. Smrek.

How many of those players have been dealt elsewhere? How many of those are having success?

What they really need is someone with the name recognition of Glen Sather and the brains and patience of Lou in New Jersey.

Lowetide is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 12:01 PM
  #23
Bluenote13
20 down, 34 to go !
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
The Rangers problem is that they treat the procurement of talent as a vehicle to acquire stars, and not as a foundation for future success. In any 5 year period going back to the 60s, the NYR list of prospects is stunning, and yet they're always trading people away.

If you look at the NYR's prospect list from two years ago (looking at HN's Future Watch), what has happened? Here's the 10 (March 1, 2002):

1. Tyutin; 2. Lundmark; 3. G Murray; 4. Heisten; 5. Fata; 6. P Auferio; 7. Novak; 8. Mattau; 9. D Moore; 10. Smrek.

How many of those players have been dealt elsewhere? How many of those are having success?

What they really need is someone with the name recognition of Glen Sather and the brains and patience of Lou in New Jersey.
LT, I get your point and i agree on some level, but thats a horrible example.....Heisten? Aufiero? Novak? Smrek?

Bluenote13 is offline  
Old
04-18-2004, 09:48 AM
  #24
Lowetide
Registered User
 
Lowetide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13
LT, I get your point and i agree on some level, but thats a horrible example.....Heisten? Aufiero? Novak? Smrek?
And I understand your point. But that doesn't matter: Even if the NYR trade all these guys and they all break their ankles and lose a season at 22, it doesn't change the fact that they're going about this the wrong damn way.

Lowetide is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.