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The Brule for Torres deal revisited

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Old
12-12-2009, 01:27 AM
  #26
N5991989
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I did not like it because Raffi was my favourite player on the oilers at the time. I did see merit in the trade though and thought we got a very good deal in that trade.

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12-12-2009, 01:33 AM
  #27
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Loved it then, love it more now.
This is a deal you make every single time.

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12-12-2009, 01:36 AM
  #28
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Gilbert Brule is a Doug Gilmour-esque type player. He needed a coach like Pat Quinn to get the best out of him. What's scary is that he's only going to get better and better and as the season's progress, he's only going to get smarter and smarter. I really like Gil and if anything, Columbus has taught the league a valuable lesson about rushing prized prospects to the show - some are going to take time, no matter where they're drafted.

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12-12-2009, 02:23 AM
  #29
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Interesting to note - how many guys playing on the top line in this league get zero time on the PP? Quite the anomoly.

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12-12-2009, 02:28 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Interesting to note - how many guys playing on the top line in this league get zero time on the PP? Quite the anomoly.
Yeah, weird.

Not sure if this is where you were headed but, Brule played 4:08 on the PP tonight.

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12-12-2009, 02:39 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ThePerfectStorm View Post
Yeah, weird.

Not sure if this is where you were headed but, Brule played 4:08 on the PP tonight.
Okay, not zero, but dammed close to it. If he gets any PP time, it seems to be near the end of the penalty. I don't have stats prior to this game, or before the Hemsky injury, but I would suspect his PP time has been negligible. With a shot like his, I think he should be getting more time on it.

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12-12-2009, 02:43 AM
  #32
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I was really glad to get rid of Torres at the time. He was so inconsistent and a had a way of destroying plays when the puck reached him. He would have been missed for his toughness, but in truth I had no idea if Brule would pan out.

Brule is doing well now but as usual time will tell if he is going to be a consistently good player.

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Old
12-12-2009, 09:22 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
For those who recall the deal was for Gilbert Brule for Raffi Torres on July 1st 2008

This is one of the deals that was either loved or hated at the time. I saw Brule play a few years with Vancouver Giants and I have had a love affair bigger then BBO's with Schremp(that explains the two bets).

We are now two years into the trade

Rafii has not been to shabby so far this year with 10goals 6 assists -3 with 42 shots on goals while getting 6 goals on the powerplay

Brule now has 9 goals 12 assists now at 0 no ppg with 54 shots on net

both players are about equal on penalty points

One thing that sticks out is the fact that Torres has gotten over 50% of his goals on the PP and Brule nile--Some people love special team numbers--but I like even strengths stats and short handed stats(that is one reason why I hated Schremp--he is a PP guy)

I remember when Brule got sent down and in this off season some people called Brule a bust and thought we should dump him for something.

got one other set of numbers to look at Brule is 22 going on 23 and is a RFA after this season of making .800k

Raffi on the other hand is making 2.25 and will be an UFA after this season

Now here is the question...


If you were Lowe(this was one of Lowe's last trades) would you still have done this deal on July 1st 2008? or would you have prefered to keep raffi?

Both are similier players--but they have some obvious differences

wont make this a poll--but for general discussion

Like I said--I am Brule fan and I could never see Raffi playing on the top line like Brule is now(for however long it is)
I didn't like the trade because I thought Brule would be useless for us. So far it looks like I may have been wrong. He's done relatively well for us and I hope he continues to progress.

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Old
12-12-2009, 09:47 AM
  #34
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if brule continues to play on the top line and produce ( which i believe he will), how much do we offer him and the end of the season...with cogs, gags and bru set to become rfa's it could make for an interesting off season, in terms of dollar distribution among the three..

Personally:

I think you give Gagner a long term deal 5 years (3mill+ cap hit)

Give Cogs give a 1 year deal (2-3mill range), since he's eventually going to be the odd man out

I give a brule a 1 year deal similar to cogs, and if he proves him self yet again next year, work out a long term deal

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12-12-2009, 10:43 AM
  #35
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I was a fan of it then and love it now. I really believed that Brule was rushed and that we hadn't seen the player that he could be in the NHL yet. I thought that he was begining to show it for a while there last year and feel he has turned that corner. Could be a player to build around with Gagner, Magnus P.S, Eberle and some big body types, maybe Teemu H and Chris Vande Velde or Riley Nash. Going forward we might want to look at loading up no the back end and goal a little heavier the next few drafts.

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:57 AM
  #36
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I said at the time that it was a good deal for both teams but ultimately the Oilers would win the trade. I felt that Brule was too good of a player to not develop despite Columbus mishandling of him.

In a couple of years time this deal will be considered a steal for the Oilers.

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Old
12-12-2009, 11:00 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesteel View Post
if brule continues to play on the top line and produce ( which i believe he will), how much do we offer him and the end of the season...with cogs, gags and bru set to become rfa's it could make for an interesting off season, in terms of dollar distribution among the three..

Personally:

I think you give Gagner a long term deal 5 years (3mill+ cap hit)

Give Cogs give a 1 year deal (2-3mill range), since he's eventually going to be the odd man out

I give a brule a 1 year deal similar to cogs, and if he proves him self yet again next year, work out a long term deal
There is no way Gagner's agent is going to agree to sign Gagner to a long term deal unless the Oiler overpay on potential.

My prediction for the day. Cogs is not an Oiler by the end of the year.

The Oilers may want to sign Brule for a long term deal but his agent may want a short term deal as he may feel this is the tip of the iceberg.

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Old
12-12-2009, 11:06 AM
  #38
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Loved the deal then and knew this guy would find a roster spot after a confidence rebuild and likely some additional personal commitment. For anyone that saw Brule in junior, he was simply dominant.

Well worth a gamble. Top end potential players are difficult to find. When you have one like Brule who was rushed, injured, and poorly managed, it will well worth tradig for and trying to nurture the diamond that is there. I expected a third line energy guy this year with some point production growing into a top six role over time. With the icetime and chemistry, Brule has seized an opportunity to produce points. Love it. Great trade.

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Old
12-12-2009, 01:00 PM
  #39
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In all honesty, at the time of the trade I thought of it as trading away a 25 year old Raffi Torres for a 21 year old version of Raffi. It was like the Oilers decided they wanted a do-over with this kind of prospect, and this time they were going to get it right.

I still think I'm not wrong, but I did underestimate Brule's level of talent...he's a slightly better skater than Torres, and a definite level above him when it comes to playmaking skill. Torres still has the edge over him in the physical department, mainly due to his size advantage.

IMO both players have never been the bright bulbs on the Christmas tree when it comes to hockey sense, which IMO is one reason why for all their other talents, they don't get as many looks on the PP as their stats suggest they should.

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Old
12-12-2009, 01:19 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Okay, not zero, but dammed close to it. If he gets any PP time, it seems to be near the end of the penalty. I don't have stats prior to this game, or before the Hemsky injury, but I would suspect his PP time has been negligible. With a shot like his, I think he should be getting more time on it.
I'm sure he's been out there with Gagner and Penner pretty consistently.

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Old
12-12-2009, 01:20 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by alexo View Post
Torres stunk here in his last couple of years and was overpaid. Getting a bag of poop for him was a win.
It seems in any mention of Torres theres always a post like this.

For one thing in Torres last year here he only played 32 games but I guess "he sucked" on the training table or something the last 50 games he missed

Next,in his last full year here, 06-07, Torres led ALL Oiler forwards in EV pts with 33. He had more than Hemsky that year ftr. He led all Oiler forwards in hits that year. He was one of the few Oiler players that continued to play allright post Smyth departure that year.

This was not a hockey pucks trade and both clubs got good value.

Raffi has 22goals in 78 Columbus GP. Not bad at all.

He has 10 goals this year on 12mins/night in only 28 games. That prorates to a 29 goal season on 12minutes/night.

Raffi is second in scoring in Columbus behind Nash and would be second behind Penner here. Despite playing limited minutes.

Both teams won here.

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Old
12-12-2009, 01:36 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Both teams won here.


Absolutely. The Oilers are a little ahead because of the contract situations. That being said, next year, Pisani, Moreau, Pouliot out and Torres as a replacement as a UFA? Hell yeah.

A bottom six of Stortini, Stone, JFJ, Torres, O'Marra, ?. Teams would not enjoy playing against them.

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Old
12-12-2009, 01:44 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
It seems in any mention of Torres theres always a post like this.

For one thing in Torres last year here he only played 32 games but I guess "he sucked" on the training table or something the last 50 games he missed

Next,in his last full year here, 06-07, Torres led ALL Oiler forwards in EV pts with 33. He had more than Hemsky that year ftr. He led all Oiler forwards in hits that year. He was one of the few Oiler players that continued to play allright post Smyth departure that year.

This was not a hockey pucks trade and both clubs got good value.

Raffi has 22goals in 78 Columbus GP. Not bad at all.

He has 10 goals this year on 12mins/night in only 28 games. That prorates to a 29 goal season on 12minutes/night.

Raffi is second in scoring in Columbus behind Nash and would be second behind Penner here. Despite playing limited minutes.

Both teams won here.
The numbers don't tell it all though, like mentioned during the last couple years he was our most inconsistent forward. You can argue with numbers that the production was there, but on the nights he did produce they were far and few between. Even his hitting dropped off big time after the hit on the Red Wings player.

And both clubs got good value as of right now, but the way things are going we could end up stealing this trade big time if Brule keeps up this pace.

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Old
12-12-2009, 01:50 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
It seems in any mention of Torres theres always a post like this.

For one thing in Torres last year here he only played 32 games but I guess "he sucked" on the training table or something the last 50 games he missed

Next,in his last full year here, 06-07, Torres led ALL Oiler forwards in EV pts with 33. He had more than Hemsky that year ftr. He led all Oiler forwards in hits that year. He was one of the few Oiler players that continued to play allright post Smyth departure that year.

This was not a hockey pucks trade and both clubs got good value.

Raffi has 22goals in 78 Columbus GP. Not bad at all.

He has 10 goals this year on 12mins/night in only 28 games. That prorates to a 29 goal season on 12minutes/night.

Raffi is second in scoring in Columbus behind Nash and would be second behind Penner here. Despite playing limited minutes.

Both teams won here.
I agree with the very last sentence, but really, he had one "big" season here, much like several others who also got their pay days. I don't miss him at all.

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Old
12-12-2009, 01:55 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
It seems in any mention of Torres theres always a post like this.

For one thing in Torres last year here he only played 32 games but I guess "he sucked" on the training table or something the last 50 games he missed

Next,in his last full year here, 06-07, Torres led ALL Oiler forwards in EV pts with 33. He had more than Hemsky that year ftr. He led all Oiler forwards in hits that year. He was one of the few Oiler players that continued to play allright post Smyth departure that year.

This was not a hockey pucks trade and both clubs got good value.

Raffi has 22goals in 78 Columbus GP. Not bad at all.

He has 10 goals this year on 12mins/night in only 28 games. That prorates to a 29 goal season on 12minutes/night.

Raffi is second in scoring in Columbus behind Nash and would be second behind Penner here. Despite playing limited minutes.

Both teams won here.
i agree... this *seems to be* one of those trades where both teams came away with farily even with one another.... i have to admit that i didn't like the trade at the time, as i almost never like trading a real NHLer for a guy who "might be an NHLer one day".... its looking like brule will stay in the show for good now, and even be able to contribute with some secondary scoring on top of a pretty physical game... i don't believe he'll ever be a consistant scorer, nor do i think he has the ability to play on the top line like others seem to think... but he's definitly a real NHLer at this point

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Old
12-12-2009, 02:04 PM
  #46
Stoneman89
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Originally Posted by Arpeggio View Post
I'm sure he's been out there with Gagner and Penner pretty consistently.

According to David Staples..

http://communities.canada.com/sharei...lace-them.aspx


Penner - 81 PP minutes

Gagner - 62 PP minutes

Brule - 13 PP minutes

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Old
12-12-2009, 02:07 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by HuMz View Post
The numbers don't tell it all though, like mentioned during the last couple years he was our most inconsistent forward. You can argue with numbers that the production was there, but on the nights he did produce they were far and few between. Even his hitting dropped off big time after the hit on the Red Wings player.

And both clubs got good value as of right now, but the way things are going we could end up stealing this trade big time if Brule keeps up this pace.
This sums up my thoughts exactly. He ha the good cup run year, but after that, he was frustrating as hell too watch, took a lot of inopportune penalties, and as mentioned was inconsistent. I was personally excited by the trade even though Brule was a big question mark. I was just happy with Torres being moved, honestly. Whether he does well on Columbus or not, I don't really care. I'm not concerned about how a player plays somewhere else. I'm concerned with how they played here. And well, what you see is what you get with Torres. Brule is 22 and we've just scratched the surface with him. His career is being turned around, whereas Torres is likely going the other direction.

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Old
12-12-2009, 03:07 PM
  #48
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Next,in his last full year here, 06-07, Torres led ALL Oiler forwards in EV pts with 33. He had more than Hemsky that year ftr.
He also played in 18 more games than Hemsky.

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Old
12-12-2009, 03:18 PM
  #49
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I loved the deal at the time, because I really didn't like all the off ice things I was hearing about Torres. IMO that really hurt both Raffi and Stoll. If they could have just been more focused on hockey it might have been different here.

Gilbert is finally starting to be the player everyone hoped he would. I am super excited that he is an Edmonton Oiler. Just another deal that we have won (in the past couple years)

Brule for Torres: WIN

Grebeshkov for MAB: WIN

Stone for Garon: WIN

Potulny for Syvret: WIN

UFA Smyth for Nilsson and O'Marra: JURY STILL OUT

The Heatley deal not happening: WIN

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Old
12-12-2009, 03:20 PM
  #50
Arpeggio
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
According to David Staples..

http://communities.canada.com/sharei...lace-them.aspx


Penner - 81 PP minutes

Gagner - 62 PP minutes

Brule - 13 PP minutes
That was 22 games in. I'm fairly certain that since Brule started producing with Gagner and Penner, that he's been playing on the PP with them.

Edit: I could be wrong, but I know for a fact he was playing with that unit last night.

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