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The "What if we have a lottery pick?" thread. (All Draft Talk)

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:04 PM
  #76
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
Either way, a bottom 3 finish will guarantee us a top-3 pick, no?
In theory yes, but there's always the chance we get boned in the lottery.

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You have to admit that this franchise will not go wrong either way. The post-lockout NHL is 1000 times more friendly to teenage player development than in the past. As long as the Rangers dont have a Muckler or Trottier around to stifle their development, i think Seguin, Hall and Kabanov will all be 40-80 guys (at least) by their third year
I'm not sold on Kabanov. Seems like he doesn't have much of a head on his shoulders.

Seguin is an amazing play maker. The kid has Savard-like vision, but he'll go into the gritty areas of the ice to make the plays. He has an incredibly underrated shot that he's finally starting to use.

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12-12-2009, 10:04 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
No he's not but when you have Gaborik and that kid Hall on your wings......umm it won't really matter.
But why would you move Hall to accommodate Dubinsky? This kind of a silly thing to be talking about since we have a long ways to go before we know where we'll draft, but there's no way you change the position of a franchise player to put him with a guy who has never scored more than 41 points.

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12-12-2009, 10:06 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
But why would you move Hall to accommodate Dubinsky? This kind of a silly thing to be talking about since we have a long ways to go before we know where we'll draft, but there's no way you change the position of a franchise player to put him with a guy who has never scored more than 41 points.
Pretty sure Hall has been playing LW with the Spits for a while now.

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12-12-2009, 10:07 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Pretty sure Hall has been playing LW with the Spits for a while now.
Oh, my mistake then. Still I wouldn't put Dubinsky with them at this point.

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12-12-2009, 10:11 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
No chance we come close to snagging Hall, as much as I'd love it.

We will lose in the 1st round and pick in the late-teens, continuing the perpetual cycle of mediocrity the Rangers seem to enjoy so.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! It's a nightmare and I can't wake up.

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:14 PM
  #81
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Can we make TankFor Hall avatars?

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:15 PM
  #82
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If this team wasnt almost completely healthy i wouldnt say this was possible. But the fact is the only one we are missing is Dubi and i dont think he is the difference between a this team winning a ton of games.

Fact is we still cant score, the PP still isnt very good and Henrik has looked absolutley terrible. Thats a recipe for disaster....

With all that said, i would take a full on rebuild now. It wouldnt even be that long of a rebuild. We have an excellent farm system stacked with D Prospects and we have a couple of chips on the offesnive side(Grachev, AA, Stepan) if you had Taylor Hall into that we could start buidling a contender again. Lets just do it already, im tired of medicore teams. I dont wanna JUST make the playoffs i wanna win the cup. No matter how much you fiddle with this team its never going to happen as presently constructed.

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12-12-2009, 10:15 PM
  #83
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Going to make this the catch-all thread for the lottery pick movement.

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:18 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Going to make this the catch-all thread for the lottery pick movement.
Trxjw, I was looking through the prospects forum for a Hall vs Seguin topic to see what people thought of them. In that thread there was a pretty good argument with regards to Hall and i wonder what you have to say about it.

"Whoa there, my friend. I would hardly consider myself a Taylor Hall fanboy by any stretch of the imagination. My point was that when players are on the radar from 15 years old the way that Hall has been on the radar, their game gets picked apart from that point on and sometimes those stereotypes are hard to shake. It happens to all the great prospects that start gaining notoriety around that point in their career.

Scouts started scrutinizing Hall before he was even remotely a finished product. The most recent example being John Tavares. They said his skating was bad. His level of compete was bad. He wasn't as good of a playmaker as they would like. He didn't have the right attitude. He was bored in the OHL, etc.

He was picked apart to the extent that an unheralded kid from Peterborough in Matt Duchene nearly eclipsed him by the time the draft rolled around. Same thing with Patrick Kane and Kyle Turris. Central Scouting even bit on the Turris hype and had him at 1st overall among NA skaters on draft day. Hell, even in 2005 when Crosby was being hailed as the next Gretzky, Benoit Pouliot came as reasonably close to catching him as one could come.

For as long as there will be elite prospects that draw attention two or three years prior to their draft date, their will always be a Duchene, Turris, or Pouliot there that develops into an elite prospect as the year goes along and scouts that have no focused on them from 15-17 do not concern themselves with the problems they encountered from those ages, but only evaluate the finished product in relative terms to their peers at the time of the draft. In almost every case, the proper choice is made with the 1st overall pick but there will always be these late bloomers there to make it interesting.

I watched a lot of Seguin last year because I was also following Chris Terry, Brett Bellemore, and several others, and he never jumped out to me as the kind of player that would challenge for the 1st overall pick just a season later. That kind of quick jump can be a great sign and it can also be a false positive.

My overall point is that one must take extreme caution in the process of a kid being over scouted and what that means for his draft status. Nobody, and I do mean nobody, can keep their nose clean enough from 15 all the way to 18 to never give anybody second thoughts about their future. While other kids had the comfort of growing through their awkward years in relative obscurity, Taylor Hall and others like him have always had to put on the game face for every game because there have been scouts in the building for every one of them."

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:18 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Can we make TankFor Hall avatars?
It would be better if we didn't use the word Tank since it is a frowned upon tactic, but I wouldn't mind Avatars of the different players that say something like "is on the Failtrain"

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:19 PM
  #86
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At some point Sather and Dolan have to bite the bullet and send at least 2 of the 3 albatross contracts (I'm sure u know who they are) if not all of them to the minors.

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:21 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
If this team wasnt almost completely healthy i wouldnt say this was possible. But the fact is the only one we are missing is Dubi and i dont think he is the difference between a this team winning a ton of games.

Fact is we still cant score, the PP still isnt very good and Henrik has looked absolutley terrible. Thats a recipe for disaster....

With all that said, i would take a full on rebuild now. It wouldnt even be that long of a rebuild. We have an excellent farm system stacked with D Prospects and we have a couple of chips on the offesnive side(Grachev, AA, Stepan) if you had Taylor Hall into that we could start buidling a contender again. Lets just do it already, im tired of medicore teams. I dont wanna JUST make the playoffs i wanna win the cup. No matter how much you fiddle with this team its never going to happen as presently constructed.
If only Dolan and Sather had this kind of insight.

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:21 PM
  #88
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I Just wanna add that I fully support this strategy

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:24 PM
  #89
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Not that I think we're anywhere near a stanley cup, I wonder if Pittsburgh fans were talking like this last season

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:25 PM
  #90
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On that note I'd like to say I'm fully against tanking, especially at this point in the season. You guys call yourselves New York fans...where is the fight, or the pride? I'm embarrassed by those calling for the team to tank this early in the season.

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12-12-2009, 10:26 PM
  #91
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Not that I think we're anywhere near a stanley cup, I wonder if Pittsburgh fans were talking like this last season
I highly doubt it considering they already have Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury etc...

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On that note I'd like to say I'm fully against tanking, especially at this point in the season. You guys call yourselves New York fans...where is the fight, or the pride? I'm embarrassed by those calling for the team to tank this early in the season.
It's hard to have any pride or fight for a team that doesn't have any pride or fight in itself.

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:27 PM
  #92
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Not that I think we're anywhere near a stanley cup, I wonder if Pittsburgh fans were talking like this last season
Difference is Crosby and Malkin

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:29 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
On that note I'd like to say I'm fully against tanking, especially at this point in the season. You guys call yourselves New York fans...where is the fight, or the pride? I'm embarrassed by those calling for the team to tank this early in the season.
Thing is, in our situation, tanking doesn't only bring us the chance at a superstar it also gives us a chance to rid ourselves of Sather....chance may be low but if the Rangers reallllllllllllllly stink it up....then Sather may be gone for good...

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:30 PM
  #94
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This is such a waste of time. Lundqvist and Gaborik are never going to be on a team that finishes in the bottom 5. There is absolutely no chance that every single player on this team is going to play worse than they ever have before. They might not make the playoffs but thats about it. Being near the bottom at this time of the year means nothing in the scope of getting a top 5 pick. Every team on the bottom half of the standings thinks they can potentially get a top 5 pick, and most of them lack an elite goaltender and a league leading scorer. Sorry, but the top 5 is not going to happen. Seriously.

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:30 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Not that I think we're anywhere near a stanley cup, I wonder if Pittsburgh fans were talking like this last season
If I recall correctly, they were on the ledge after they lost to the Isles in a shootout in what I believe was Bylsma's 1st game. They were even talking about tanking and drafting tavares.

They were taking shots at everybody...even Crosby for his mediocrity in shootouts. For a while all they were begging for was getting Kovy (who isnt) but they amazingly turned it around when Fleury stole games for them and their 3rd line was acting like a top line, not to mention the Guerin and Kunitz trades. Also add Gonchar being healthy.

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:31 PM
  #96
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i dont approve of tanking to get a top pick, regardless of what the player could do for our franchise...but the team is just that bad that they wont need to tank to get one

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:33 PM
  #97
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Even if we continue in a downward spiral here, the chances of getting Hall, or any player that will make a significant impact next year are slim.

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:33 PM
  #98
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I wouldn't define tanking as selling off the dead-weight and bad contracts at the Trading Deadline and handing the car-keys to the youth for the rest of the season.

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:39 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
On that note I'd like to say I'm fully against tanking, especially at this point in the season. You guys call yourselves New York fans...where is the fight, or the pride? I'm embarrassed by those calling for the team to tank this early in the season.
This team has one player with any level of talent on the offensive side of the puck and lets be honest everyone's waiting for the injury even Michelleti freaks out when he gets hit and is slow getting up. Other than that we have 3rd liners, not even second liners 3rd liners running around playing a system they cannot handle or execute properly. Meanwhile we are askign a very young d-corp to handle a tremendous workload that is frankly unreasonable.

The one rock we had on this team(hank) is falling apart. Nows the time, hell 11 years ago was the time. It's over due, theres nothing that tells me this team is a cup contender, NOTHING and the cup means everything. No more first round exits I want the awesome trophy.

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Old
12-12-2009, 10:42 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
This is such a waste of time. Lundqvist and Gaborik are never going to be on a team that finishes in the bottom 5. There is absolutely no chance that every single player on this team is going to play worse than they ever have before. They might not make the playoffs but thats about it. Being near the bottom at this time of the year means nothing in the scope of getting a top 5 pick. Every team on the bottom half of the standings thinks they can potentially get a top 5 pick, and most of them lack an elite goaltender and a league leading scorer. Sorry, but the top 5 is not going to happen. Seriously.
I'm sorry but I would like to point out the 2003 Draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NHL_Draft). As you can see, the Panthers originally had the top pick that year. They got the pick with a roster featuring Luongo as their goalie.

In the 2001 draft, coming off a season where Luongo was the goalie AND Bure scored 59 goals, the picked fourth.

Your guarantee denies reality.

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