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The "What if we have a lottery pick?" thread. (All Draft Talk)

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Old
12-12-2009, 11:45 PM
  #101
NYR Viper
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I am officially behind tanking. As much as it hurts me to say it, I will actually be rooting for this team to do badly so that they can improve in the future. Adding a game-breaking young talent to this team in the future could be difference between getting into the playoffs and contending for the cup.

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12-12-2009, 11:46 PM
  #102
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If you can somehow rid yourself of Redden, Rosival and Drury without draining the farm.......then that might be the best way to go once the trade deadline comes along. With those three gone....then we might be able work something.

However, it all comes to nothing once you realize that we have Sather as our GM and we all know how he is with cap space....

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12-12-2009, 11:46 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
On that note I'd like to say I'm fully against tanking, especially at this point in the season. You guys call yourselves New York fans...where is the fight, or the pride? I'm embarrassed by those calling for the team to tank this early in the season.
I am not talking about intentionally losing games. I am talking about getting rid of these overpriced underachieving veterans and putting as much youth in the lineup as possible. If that leads to getting a top 5 pick, all so much the better.

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12-13-2009, 12:04 AM
  #104
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If the Rangers do make the playoffs they are going to have to do it despite whatever contributions or not that Drury, Redden and Rozsival make--by which I mean to say that the youth are already here are going to have to get that task done moreso than those three highly paid veterans. At least from what I see you cannot depend on those guys and from how it looks right now those younger players are struggling to the point that it leaves a lot of doubt they can get it done. Again though I'll say this team misses Dubinsky even if he's not putting up numbers that people he want. He can bring the puck up the ice and control and hold onto it and play a physical game doing it. In any case as long as D + R + R are around the Rangers are going to have to rely on young players however ready or not because their lesser contracts keep them on the right side of the cap.

So is it a tank if everything continues on the same track as now and if we're hamstrung by contracts we can't get rid of--and with players not ready for the roles they are asked to do or are not capable of doing yet? I wouldn't necessarily call it deliberately trying to lose. The problems we're having now point to bad management decisions which is basically the reason why any team gets into a rut. One way or another we need to hold on to our first two draft picks. As for winning or losing or horrible it might get I'm still going to be a Ranger fan.


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12-13-2009, 12:29 AM
  #105
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I just noticed Bergfors has 11 goals.....11.....the only player on the Rangers with more is Gaborik....I am going to be sick.

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12-13-2009, 12:33 AM
  #106
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personally i would not mind a losing team this season. we have a bright future right now if you look at the quality of our prospects in the cupboard already.

Kreider, Stepan, Grachev, Sanguinetti, McDonagh, Werek, Bourque, Sauer, Hagelin, Kundratek, Gilroy, Valentenko.

That is a lot of quality right there. If we were to be able to add a Hall, Kabanov, Seguin, Granlund, McFarland, Connolly or Tarasenko to the offense, we will have a team to watch out for in 2-3 years time. Hall, Kabanov, and Seguin might be the offensive players would might be able to make an impact right away. the rest might need another season or two to develop. If we miss out on Hall and Seguin, i would even go after Fowler, Gormley, or Gundranson. Yes we need offense for this team, but i say BPA.

and i really dont think we can screw this up. Gordie Clarke has done one hell of a job drafting since he took over that job. Sather makes his input but Gordie Clarke really is the one behind the scenes running the drafting table.

Lets Go Rangers! Lets Get A Top Draft Pick!

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12-13-2009, 12:35 AM
  #107
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If the Rangers are around 10 points out of a playoff spot by the deadline, I am fearful that Slats will go into desperation mode and make a push for the playoffs.

I was OK with the Antropov for a 2nd trade last season, especially considering we ended up getting the compensatory pick for Cherepanov. But, as of this moment, with so many players underachieving, I can't see them sneaking into the playoffs this year.

Maybe things will miraculously turn around by the deadline, but I will be disappointed (but not surprised) if the Rangers are buyers rather than sellers.

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12-13-2009, 12:39 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Hockey2000nyr View Post
personally i would not mind a losing team this season. we have a bright future right now if you look at the quality of our prospects in the cupboard already.

Kreider, Stepan, Grachev, Sanguinetti, McDonagh, Werek, Bourque, Sauer, Hagelin, Kundratek, Gilroy, Valentenko.

That is a lot of quality right there. If we were to be able to add a Hall, Kabanov, Seguin, Granlund, McFarland, Connolly or Tarasenko to the offense, we will have a team to watch out for in 2-3 years time. Hall, Kabanov, and Seguin might be the offensive players would might be able to make an impact right away. the rest might need another season or two to develop. If we miss out on Hall and Seguin, i would even go after Fowler, Gormley, or Gundranson. Yes we need offense for this team, but i say BPA.

and i really dont think we can screw this up. Gordie Clarke has done one hell of a job drafting since he took over that job. Sather makes his input but Gordie Clarke really is the one behind the scenes running the drafting table.

Lets Go Rangers! Lets Get A Top Draft Pick!
That is exactly how I feel. I say sell now. See if there are any takers for Rozsival, Redden(not going to happen), Kotalik and try to move Higgins and Prospal and hand the team over to the younger players. Its going to be ugly but it is for the best of the organization in the long run.

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12-13-2009, 12:46 AM
  #109
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also if you look at this team, it is a relatively young team. they have a lot of maturing to do. a lot of learning and the coaching is where it needs to come from. torts has to stop changing the lines soo much so these guys can build some chemistry. and plus, if you look at our roster, there really arent that many guys that we would really be able to "sell". Prospal could net a good return with how hes playing so far this year. Higgins might be able to net us something decent. doubt brashear would be wanted anywhere. Rozy might be able to be moved, but it wouldnt be for much in return. Kotalik probably has some value since he is really good on the pp. out of everyone else i dont see any of them being moved. i wouldnt move Redden even though his contract is large because he has been a steady defenseman this year. the young defenseman on the team have said that they seem to play better with redden in the lineup. Drury cant be moved unless he wanted to be moved. so the conversation with him would really start and end with drury

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12-13-2009, 12:49 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Check out the new sig.

The Rangers Select.....Taylor Hall!

I'm DruNks...but are we really ready for this...

Tank chants at MSG


I ve always loathed the idea in the past that teams do this....but there comes a time.. when you gotta do what ya gotta do



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Old
12-13-2009, 12:50 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Hockey2000nyr View Post
also if you look at this team, it is a relatively young team. they have a lot of maturing to do. a lot of learning and the coaching is where it needs to come from. torts has to stop changing the lines soo much so these guys can build some chemistry. and plus, if you look at our roster, there really arent that many guys that we would really be able to "sell". Prospal could net a good return with how hes playing so far this year. Higgins might be able to net us something decent. doubt brashear would be wanted anywhere. Rozy might be able to be moved, but it wouldnt be for much in return. Kotalik probably has some value since he is really good on the pp. out of everyone else i dont see any of them being moved. i wouldnt move Redden even though his contract is large because he has been a steady defenseman this year. the young defenseman on the team have said that they seem to play better with redden in the lineup. Drury cant be moved unless he wanted to be moved. so the conversation with him would really start and end with drury
But just moving Rozsival, Kotalik, Higgins and Prospal is enough to net a pretty good return IMO. I would imagine something like a 2nd and a 3rd for Prospal, a 3rd for Higgins, a 2nd for Kotalik and a 3rd for Rozsival.

Those extra picks could be huge moving forward. They could also allow the Rangers to move up at the draft if they really like someone out of their reach.

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12-13-2009, 01:07 AM
  #112
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I'm sorry, but I can not advocate losing in the hope that a high draft pick will somehow turn the fortunes of this franchise around.

Not every pick is going to come in and have the impact of a Tavares or a Duchene right out of camp.Stamkos had a rough go of it last year and is only starting to blossom this year.

The only way things are going to change is the departure of Glen Sather.He has done damage to this organization that will take years to undo.

This idea that there is another Bob Gainey out there who will take one of our albatross contracts is laughable.Drury has a NMC and isn't likely to waive it.Redden and Roszival are anchored here as well, who in their right mind is going to take on Redden and his $6.5 million a year contract for the next 4 years? Other GM's watch tape, Roszival is going nowhere.Book it,to use a popular line around here.

Kotalik? Another NMC coupled with his horrid play ensures he too will be here for the duration of his contract.

This lottery pick talk is moot anyway, you know as well as I do that Sather will do something on March 1st.Just enough to keep the teams flickering playoff hopes alive and derail all of these carefully laid plans about draft picks.

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12-13-2009, 01:09 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by OrbitalDynamics View Post
I'm sorry, but I can not advocate losing in the hope that a high draft pick will somehow turn the fortunes of this franchise around.

Not every pick is going to come in and have the impact of a Tavares or a Duchene right out of camp.Stamkos had a rough go of it last year and is only starting to blossom this year.

The only way things are going to change is the departure of Glen Sather.He has done damage to this organization that will take years to undo.

This idea that there is another Bob Gainey out there who will take one of our albatross contracts is laughable.Drury has a NMC and isn't likely to waive it.Redden and Roszival are anchored here as well, who in their right mind is going to take on Redden and his $6.5 million a year contract for the next 4 years? Other GM's watch tape, Roszival is going nowhere.Book it,to use a popular line around here.

Kotalik? Another NMC coupled with his horrid play ensures he too will be here for the duration of his contract.

This lottery pick talk is moot anyway, you know as well as I do that Sather will do something on March 1st.Just enough to keep the teams flickering playoff hopes alive and derail all of these carefully laid plans about draft picks.
To be fair, Stamkos, in his down year, had 23 goals and 46 points on a horrible team.

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12-13-2009, 01:11 AM
  #114
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To be fair, Stamkos, in his down year, had 23 goals and 46 points on a horrible team.
Yes, and starting off with Melrose as his coach couldn't have helped either.

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12-13-2009, 01:12 AM
  #115
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Thinking about the last (and only) time this team held a fire sale to get a low pick, back in '04, I thought back to the last game of that season. It was in atlanta if I recall correctly and Bobby Holik (he of $9 mill/yr fame) put in a stellar performance and had the game winning goal in an absolutely meaningless game, giving us the win and the 6th-worst record, out of the lottery. Anyone remember what happened that year? 5th-worst Washington wins the lottery to get ****ing AO.

I think the worst case is Glen trades a ufa to be like higgins for picks (but rides it out with prospal) trying to see if we can squeak through to the playoffs, but in any event our luck dictates that we will not get lucky, by any means. Threads like this only contribute to the let down we'll all feel in april haha.

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12-13-2009, 01:30 AM
  #116
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Wait, I thought we WERE tanking!

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12-13-2009, 01:56 AM
  #117
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I'm sorry but I would like to point out the 2003 Draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NHL_Draft). As you can see, the Panthers originally had the top pick that year. They got the pick with a roster featuring Luongo as their goalie.

In the 2001 draft, coming off a season where Luongo was the goalie AND Bure scored 59 goals, the picked fourth.

Your guarantee denies reality.
I don't know that something happening once really allows it to define what "reality" is. The situations are similar, but they are not the same. Everyone else on the team is not going to stay this bad forever. Drury is going to score 8 goals? Callahan and Dubi aren't going to chip in AND Avery and Higgins are going to have their least productive seasons ever? I'm saying that all of that happening at once is not likely. You can find a situation that is similar but that doesn't mean that the outcome will be the same. How about last year when the highest goal scorer had something in the 20s? We had Hank then. Using your logic, we were like the 2003 Panthers and should have gotten a top pick since we had a good goalie and a mediocre team, but alas we made the playoffs. Being in a similar roster situation as a team in the past doesn't mean that the season will end just like theirs did. I have absolute confidence in saying that the Rangers will not end this season with a draft pick high enough to have an immediate impact on next year's team. Compare them to whoever you want, we'll see how it ends up.

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12-13-2009, 07:38 AM
  #118
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This is the Rangers, even if the would win the lottery and get the first overall pick, they would end up getting the next Daigle or Stephan!

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12-13-2009, 08:15 AM
  #119
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This thread is awfully premature in my opinion, although now it's been changed to the draft thread in general. How can anyone consider tanking when there are 50+ games to be played and we're 14-15-2 despite near unwatchable play recently, all the while only 3 points out of the, "last playoff spot". Even discussing "playoff spots" sounds unnatural on 12/13.

It's difficult to understand how anyone can get behind the idea of tanking when had we been 3-3-4 over the last ten instead of 3-6-1 we'd be sitting in 8th. That's far from a drastic improvement and in reality we weren't too far from dragging a few of those losses into OTL's (Florida, Detroit, Chicago and Buffalo). Of all teams post lockout we should know how much OTL's can affect your standing, if you need to be reminded take a look towards Long Island.

It's too early for me to start discussing a lottery pick. Obviously adding Hall, Seguin or Kabanov would be awesome but it's way too early. Come late Feb. early March we'll have a better idea. Right now dreaming about one of those three is only going to get your hopes up. Sure we may end up with with a chance to draft a difference maker but we also may end up drafting in a more familiar spot in the mediocre range. Things may look bleak at the moment but you need to be realistic. Henrik hasn't even thrown this team on his back yet for a short span and we're still in the playoff hunt. A hot streak from Hank in Feb/March and you're drafting 8-15 and not 1-7.


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12-13-2009, 09:11 AM
  #120
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Good morning everyone, what's for breakfast on the Fail Train???

This whole team is like Aaron Voros' last year, get all your points in October and disappear. 8 out of 14 wins in one month.

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12-13-2009, 09:37 AM
  #121
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This is the Rangers, even if the would win the lottery and get the first overall pick, they would end up getting the next Daigle or Stephan!
I don't think Bettman would let the Rangers win the lottery even if they finished dead last.

If Carolina is still in the mix that is my main concern.

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12-13-2009, 09:41 AM
  #122
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This thread is awfully premature in my opinion, although now it's been changed to the draft thread in general. How can anyone consider tanking when there are 50+ games to be played and we're 14-15-2 despite near unwatchable play recently, all the while only 3 points out of the, "last playoff spot". Even discussing "playoff spots" sounds unnatural on 12/13.

It's difficult to understand how anyone can get behind the idea of tanking when had we been 3-3-4 over the last ten instead of 3-6-1 we'd be sitting in 8th. That's far from a drastic improvement and in reality we weren't too far from dragging a few of those losses into OTL's (Florida, Detroit, Chicago and Buffalo). Of all teams post lockout we should know how much OTL's can affect your standing, if you need to be reminded take a look towards Long Island.

It's too early for me to start discussing a lottery pick. Obviously adding Hall, Seguin or Kabanov would be awesome but it's way too early. Come late Feb. early March we'll have a better idea. Right now dreaming about one of those three is only going to get your hopes up. Sure we may end up with with a chance to draft a difference maker but we also may end up drafting in a more familiar spot in the mediocre range. Things may look bleak at the moment but you need to be realistic. Henrik hasn't even thrown this team on his back yet for a short span and we're still in the playoff hunt. A hot streak from Hank in Feb/March and you're drafting 8-15 and not 1-7.
Well said. Not trolling here. The Rangers are not as bad as the doom and gloomon here make it sound. They still have a top goalie who can steal a lot of games for them. I thin that Torts' system is not right for this personnel and there is a lot fo youth. That youth will have it's share of ups and downs (see Del Zotto and Gilroy). Remember that pre-season, may so called "experts" had the Rangers as low as 14th in the conference and only a few had them making the playoffs.

They are only a couple points out of 8th in the log-jam that is the eastern conference. If they can find some secondary scoring, they should be competing for aplayoff spot come the end of the year. My guess would be that they fall just short and wind up drafting in the 9-12 range. Past histroy has shown the NYR to grab a guy who has fallen (see Cherepanov, Del Zotto, etc.) and I coudl see them drafting a guy with size, toughness, and some scoring ability in John McFarland, whom I think will drop to 9-10 or else go with an explosive goal scorer like Granlund who could drop because of his size.

Predictions fo top 6 pick:
Hall- Carolina
Fowler - Boston (via Toronto)
Seguin - Florida
Kabanov - Minnesota
Gormley - Anaheim

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12-13-2009, 09:44 AM
  #123
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This is such a waste of time. Lundqvist and Gaborik are never going to be on a team that finishes in the bottom 5. There is absolutely no chance that every single player on this team is going to play worse than they ever have before. They might not make the playoffs but thats about it. Being near the bottom at this time of the year means nothing in the scope of getting a top 5 pick. Every team on the bottom half of the standings thinks they can potentially get a top 5 pick, and most of them lack an elite goaltender and a league leading scorer. Sorry, but the top 5 is not going to happen. Seriously.
What? Kovalchuk and Atlanta say hi. Plenty of teams with elite players finish in the bottom 5.

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12-13-2009, 10:06 AM
  #124
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Well said. Not trolling here. The Rangers are not as bad as the doom and gloomon here make it sound. They still have a top goalie who can steal a lot of games for them. I thin that Torts' system is not right for this personnel and there is a lot fo youth. That youth will have it's share of ups and downs (see Del Zotto and Gilroy). Remember that pre-season, may so called "experts" had the Rangers as low as 14th in the conference and only a few had them making the playoffs.

They are only a couple points out of 8th in the log-jam that is the eastern conference. If they can find some secondary scoring, they should be competing for aplayoff spot come the end of the year. My guess would be that they fall just short and wind up drafting in the 9-12 range. Past histroy has shown the NYR to grab a guy who has fallen (see Cherepanov, Del Zotto, etc.) and I coudl see them drafting a guy with size, toughness, and some scoring ability in John McFarland, whom I think will drop to 9-10 or else go with an explosive goal scorer like Granlund who could drop because of his size.

Predictions fo top 6 pick:
Hall- Carolina
Fowler - Boston (via Toronto)
Seguin - Florida
Kabanov - Minnesota
Gormley - Anaheim
Well as of right now if the season were to end the Rangers would have the 4th least amount of pts.

Carolina
Boston from Toronto
Philly
NYR

Everyone in the West has more points then the Rangers.

The Rangers are pretty bad. Only thing that will turn this team around is Higgins going on a scoring rampage, along with Avery, Drury your right, Kotalik, Prospal,Redden & Rozsival looking like they're worth the money.
Don't see all of that happening.

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:58 AM
  #125
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I want Tyler Seguin.

The hilarious thing is, we aren't tanking.

We are genuinely terrible.

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