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Ilya Kovalchuk (Rumor Update: 01/02/10) Post #432

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Old
01-11-2010, 09:18 AM
  #901
WhipNash27
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Originally Posted by RegalRangers View Post
Reminds me of this article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...2919/index.htm

Obviously Ilya's no Lebron, but there's a lot to be said about a player who takes a discount to help the team.
The difference here though is that Lebron would still rack in tons of money even if he played for just about nothing. Lebron could probably roll in $30+ million in a year while playing for nothing. Kovalchuk cannot do that.

However, if it's either $10M to play for ATL and $6 or $7M to play for a contender that's when you say, why would you not take a little less money to have a chance to win it all?

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01-11-2010, 10:12 AM
  #902
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Watching that game last week was depressing. There were huge gaps in the seating all over their arena. Atlanta is going to have to shell out
a ridiculous amount of money to keep him long term.

The only other teams that can afford him are franchises that are equally as irrelevant as Atlanta. To me, he only has two choices:

Stay with Atlanta or go to another young franchise and be filthy rich
and retire without the possibility of winning a cup in a small market.

Sign with top team and still be moderately rich with a good chance to win the cup, getting the acknowledgment for skills.
They have a decent following, the arena was so empty becuase the weather was so unusally bad down there everyone played it safe & stayed home.

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01-11-2010, 04:34 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by D713B View Post
Attention Ilya:

Get Paid!

No one is going to look out for you after this is all over. If you have the chance to earn 10, 20, 30 or even $40M more dollars by going to the highest bidder than by all means do so. I hate this idea that it's good for the game, or he should place Stanley Cups at the top of his priority list. If a job in your field offered you a substantial increase in salary would you stay and be loyal instead of taking the money? I highly doubt it.

Some of the greatest players to play any sport never brought home the big one, it's no guarantee. Look at what Hossa has done the past two seasons. None of us have ever been in the position to guarantee our family lineage for generations to come with $100M+ contract, so none of us should pass judgment.

Get paid Ilya.
He's a millionaire now. Literally. A millionaire. You talk like he's on the edge and his future is uncertain. No one has to look out for him EVER. If I already had millions of dollars in the bank, yeah, I think I'd be loyal instead of taking money. What's more money at that point? More to stress you out, more to waste on crappy consumer goods. The value of money is dependent on how much of it you already have and other things no doubt, but how much you have plays a huge role in it.

Hossa is a moron. Jumping from seeming contender to contender every year isn't going to get you a cup. You never let a team build around you and pair people with you or sign players that compliment you. There's a huge difference between skipping town every year to chase the cup and trying to sign with a team that has a bright future.

His family lineage will be set for generations anyway...being rich makes you money. You'd have to try to lose your financial security when you've been making 5 million + dollars a year for the past half of a decade. We shouldn't pass judgement because we don't understand...but you're passing judgement saying take the money? Seems a little sketchy to me in terms of logic.

Ilya IS paid and will be guaranteed to make many hundreds of times what most people in this world make for doing, lets face it, more grueling work than working out all day every day and taking charter flights around the country to play a game that they love.

He should go for a cup. Immortalize himself in hockey history. There's a lot of rich people in this world and he's already one of them whether he gets an extra 40 million or not. He'd be a greedy idiot to take the extra money at the expense of winning. If you want to be rich, be an industrialist. If you want to win a stanley cup, play hockey. This game isn't a game of who has the most money, its a game of being the best at what you do.

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Old
01-11-2010, 04:48 PM
  #904
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Rangers should hold off on trading for Kovy. Let some other team give up potential young talent only to have him as a rental. I personally don't want Dubinsky to be traded. Come free agency...then NYR should throw everything they have at Kovy in order to sign him. I would love nothing more than to have Kovy in a Ranger uniform next season.

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01-11-2010, 09:51 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
Rangers should hold off on trading for Kovy. Let some other team give up potential young talent only to have him as a rental. I personally don't want Dubinsky to be traded. Come free agency...then NYR should throw everything they have at Kovy in order to sign him. I would love nothing more than to have Kovy in a Ranger uniform next season.
Agreed, according to TSN, no matter where he is traded Kovy is going to test free agency. Come July 1st Slats better try everything to get him to NY. No matter what amount of cap space we have, Slats should give Kovalchuk any amount of money he wants (i would say a 9m cap hit limit).

After he is done with that, then he could just make moves to put us under the cap. We could go 10% over the cap during the off-season and the most important thing is to get Kovy and Staal locked up first. Then, you can attempt to move both Roszival and Redden. If worse comes to worse, they could always bury Redden in the minors, even though I don't think Slats has enough balls to do that.

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Old
01-11-2010, 09:57 PM
  #906
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I want no part of trading for Kovalchuk, now as an UFA that is a totally different story.

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01-11-2010, 10:07 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
He's a millionaire now. Literally. A millionaire. You talk like he's on the edge and his future is uncertain. No one has to look out for him EVER. If I already had millions of dollars in the bank, yeah, I think I'd be loyal instead of taking money. What's more money at that point? More to stress you out, more to waste on crappy consumer goods. The value of money is dependent on how much of it you already have and other things no doubt, but how much you have plays a huge role in it.

Hossa is a moron. Jumping from seeming contender to contender every year isn't going to get you a cup. You never let a team build around you and pair people with you or sign players that compliment you. There's a huge difference between skipping town every year to chase the cup and trying to sign with a team that has a bright future.

His family lineage will be set for generations anyway...being rich makes you money. You'd have to try to lose your financial security when you've been making 5 million + dollars a year for the past half of a decade. We shouldn't pass judgement because we don't understand...but you're passing judgement saying take the money? Seems a little sketchy to me in terms of logic.

Ilya IS paid and will be guaranteed to make many hundreds of times what most people in this world make for doing, lets face it, more grueling work than working out all day every day and taking charter flights around the country to play a game that they love.

He should go for a cup. Immortalize himself in hockey history. There's a lot of rich people in this world and he's already one of them whether he gets an extra 40 million or not. He'd be a greedy idiot to take the extra money at the expense of winning. If you want to be rich, be an industrialist. If you want to win a stanley cup, play hockey. This game isn't a game of who has the most money, its a game of being the best at what you do.
Really nice/vanilla way of thinking about things. But let me ask you this, do you want more money at your job? I know I do. What if your job said if you moved to Russia (where you grew up), your salary would double? You'd have to at least think about it.

When it comes down to it, how can you ever have too much money?

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01-11-2010, 10:16 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
Agreed, according to TSN, no matter where he is traded Kovy is going to test free agency. Come July 1st Slats better try everything to get him to NY. No matter what amount of cap space we have, Slats should give Kovalchuk any amount of money he wants (i would say a 9m cap hit limit).

After he is done with that, then he could just make moves to put us under the cap. We could go 10% over the cap during the off-season and the most important thing is to get Kovy and Staal locked up first. Then, you can attempt to move both Roszival and Redden. If worse comes to worse, they could always bury Redden in the minors, even though I don't think Slats has enough balls to do that.
Yeah, it's going to be a very interesting off-season. Let's face it, on July 1st, Sather is like a fat kid at a donut factory. He can't help but sign UFA's. Big name UFA's at that. We all know Kovalchuk will be in Ranger blue on July 1st. It's just a matter of how Sather is going to work it in cap-wise. The bottom line is that Rozsival or Redden needs to go (or Drury even), whether it be via trade, buy-out, or to the minors. The only real question is which path he decides to take.

Get it done, Slats!

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Old
01-11-2010, 10:55 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
He's a millionaire now. Literally. A millionaire. You talk like he's on the edge and his future is uncertain. No one has to look out for him EVER. If I already had millions of dollars in the bank, yeah, I think I'd be loyal instead of taking money. What's more money at that point? More to stress you out, more to waste on crappy consumer goods. The value of money is dependent on how much of it you already have and other things no doubt, but how much you have plays a huge role in it.

Hossa is a moron. Jumping from seeming contender to contender every year isn't going to get you a cup. You never let a team build around you and pair people with you or sign players that compliment you. There's a huge difference between skipping town every year to chase the cup and trying to sign with a team that has a bright future.

His family lineage will be set for generations anyway...being rich makes you money. You'd have to try to lose your financial security when you've been making 5 million + dollars a year for the past half of a decade. We shouldn't pass judgement because we don't understand...but you're passing judgement saying take the money? Seems a little sketchy to me in terms of logic.

Ilya IS paid and will be guaranteed to make many hundreds of times what most people in this world make for doing, lets face it, more grueling work than working out all day every day and taking charter flights around the country to play a game that they love.

He should go for a cup. Immortalize himself in hockey history. There's a lot of rich people in this world and he's already one of them whether he gets an extra 40 million or not. He'd be a greedy idiot to take the extra money at the expense of winning. If you want to be rich, be an industrialist. If you want to win a stanley cup, play hockey. This game isn't a game of who has the most money, its a game of being the best at what you do.
When people say the way Hossa did things is no way to get a cup cracks me up. He played in the finals 2 years in a row, most players are lucky if they get to the finals once in their career. Clearly he was very close to winning the past two seasons and the Blackhawks are favorites for many to win it this year. He was 2 wins away with the Pens, and one game seven victory away from winning with the Wings. And he clearly did sign with a team that has a bright future in the Blackhawks...

You can say all you want about what you'd do hypothetically but at the end of the day you're going to get paid. It's amazing how when you're well off most people if not all people will continue to strive for more. It's the basis our economic system is made on, consumption. If you have $1mil you're going to do what you can to make it $2 mil, then 3, then 4, etc.

Kovalchuk is looking for his big contract, he's worked hard to get where he is and this is his payday. He wants the best situation that comes with money. This won't mean taking a huge discount for a contender, but a mild discount for where it is he feels most comfortable while still getting paid.

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01-11-2010, 10:55 PM
  #910
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Kovalchuk and Gaborik on the same team? With the King in net?!

cup would be ours!

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01-11-2010, 10:59 PM
  #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
Agreed, according to TSN, no matter where he is traded Kovy is going to test free agency. Come July 1st Slats better try everything to get him to NY. No matter what amount of cap space we have, Slats should give Kovalchuk any amount of money he wants (i would say a 9m cap hit limit).
I couldnt' disagree more, if the only option to sign Kovalchuk is at a caphit more than $7mil per then he can screw off. If we sign him to a frontloaded long term deal to reduce the cap hit then so be it, but I do not think investing in a player with more than a $7mil per caphit is the right move.

Regardless of Kovalchuk signing here or not there is no way Redden is on this team next year IMO. I'm guessing he's bought out this off-season, and we'll just deal with the hit (the worst years of it still save us about $2mil off the cap compared to what it would be with him on the team).

I can see Roszival starting the year with us next season, but there's no way he finishes it with us unless he's spectacular and I don't think it's that farfetched that he gets moved this off-season. Same goes for Girardi this off-season.

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01-11-2010, 11:09 PM
  #912
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Why trade for him, we are not winning the cup. If hes looking for 10y 100million or around there I hope slats front loads the contract so we are not stuck with a 10 million dollar cap hit.

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01-11-2010, 11:16 PM
  #913
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serious question.

is there anyone in this thread that wouldn't be ok with a 7.5 cap hit on a very frontloaded 10-12 year deal?

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01-11-2010, 11:23 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by NY Ranger86 View Post
Kovalchuk and Gaborik on the same team? With the King in net?!

cup would be ours!
Not so fast. But it should make for at least a team that can compete. Except for when those two guys collapse from playing 30 minutes every night.

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01-11-2010, 11:23 PM
  #915
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serious question.

is there anyone in this thread that wouldn't be ok with a 7.5 cap hit on a very frontloaded 10-12 year deal?
nothing in double digits to me would be okay. If Kovalchuk was 23 I would say fine, he would be about 36 by the time it is done, however, considering he is 27 or 28, he would be 40. I would think 8-9 years would be more than adequate unless you are talking about a 12 year deal that is really front-loaded like the Hossa deal.

It isnt like by the time he is 38-39 he couldnt go to the KHL and get a ton more money if he is really worried about the money.

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01-11-2010, 11:26 PM
  #916
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is there anyone in this thread that wouldn't be ok with a 7.5 cap hit on a very frontloaded 10-12 year deal?
against these 10-12 year deals... but for a chance at Kovy and Gaborik... I'm all for it.

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01-12-2010, 01:16 AM
  #917
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If we do land Kovy our cap situation is going to be tight for a long long time. we better hope that a few of our young prospect centers, defensemen & wings pan out. It's going to be a revoling door, we won't have alot of money to sign some of these guys that do pan out. I hope Gordie Clark is up to the task.

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01-12-2010, 01:24 AM
  #918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
He's a millionaire now. Literally. A millionaire. You talk like he's on the edge and his future is uncertain. No one has to look out for him EVER. If I already had millions of dollars in the bank, yeah, I think I'd be loyal instead of taking money. What's more money at that point? More to stress you out, more to waste on crappy consumer goods. The value of money is dependent on how much of it you already have and other things no doubt, but how much you have plays a huge role in it.

Hossa is a moron. Jumping from seeming contender to contender every year isn't going to get you a cup. You never let a team build around you and pair people with you or sign players that compliment you. There's a huge difference between skipping town every year to chase the cup and trying to sign with a team that has a bright future.

His family lineage will be set for generations anyway...being rich makes you money. You'd have to try to lose your financial security when you've been making 5 million + dollars a year for the past half of a decade. We shouldn't pass judgement because we don't understand...but you're passing judgement saying take the money? Seems a little sketchy to me in terms of logic.

Ilya IS paid and will be guaranteed to make many hundreds of times what most people in this world make for doing, lets face it, more grueling work than working out all day every day and taking charter flights around the country to play a game that they love.

He should go for a cup. Immortalize himself in hockey history. There's a lot of rich people in this world and he's already one of them whether he gets an extra 40 million or not. He'd be a greedy idiot to take the extra money at the expense of winning. If you want to be rich, be an industrialist. If you want to win a stanley cup, play hockey. This game isn't a game of who has the most money, its a game of being the best at what you do.
Isn't your suggestion essentially what Hossa did? He had $100mil contract waiting for him, but instead chose to sign a 1yr contract with less money so he can have a shot at the cup; he did that twice, unfortunately for him, he was on the opposite end on both years. Players only have their prime to make a ton of money. Hossa realized that and signed a mega contract. Ilya, in time, will most likely do the same.

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Old
01-12-2010, 04:16 AM
  #919
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Hossa only did that once, in Detroit for one season. His season in Pitt was only a quarter season as he was traded there. Also, while it may have looked like he was taking far less money over a much shorter term, it is possible that he wanted to "try-out" Detroit as he wasnt very fond of Pitt. He may have thought of that season as an extended try-out so that they could work-out a much longer lower-cap deal which never came.

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01-12-2010, 09:27 AM
  #920
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Why trade for him, we are not winning the cup. If hes looking for 10y 100million or around there I hope slats front loads the contract so we are not stuck with a 10 million dollar cap hit.
The cap stays the same over the entire length of the contract. You could pay him $50MM his first year (in theory, not according to the CBA), and he'll still have a $10MM hit ever year after that. The only time the hit will change is if a player is bought out.

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01-12-2010, 09:36 AM
  #921
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Not sure if this question was answered here already, but...for next year I remember there being talk of a possible buyout of 1 contract per team. Haven't seen anything come about it yet. Anyone know if that was an actual topic or just speculation?

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01-12-2010, 09:59 AM
  #922
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Any new news, updates, progress on this issue since post 432?

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01-12-2010, 10:02 AM
  #923
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serious question.

is there anyone in this thread that wouldn't be ok with a 7.5 cap hit on a very frontloaded 10-12 year deal?
Doesn't Kovalchuk's agent have a history of being very tough to deal with? I've heard that he is all about the money and nothing else. Supposedly he milks teams for everything he can... even moreso than other agents. If so he'll definitely be going for more than a 7.5 hit. Don't forget that Kovalchuk held out for more money in 05... And this is when Atlanta was considered a promising team. Kovalchuk just doesn't seem like the kind of guy who will take one for the team. FA is all about cashing in after all. I'm sure someone would be fine giving him 9-10 million yearly.

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01-12-2010, 10:04 AM
  #924
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Doesn't Kovalchuk's agent have a history of being very tough to deal with? I've heard that he is all about the money and nothing else. Supposedly he milks teams for everything he can... even moreso than other agents. If so he'll definitely be going for more than a 7.5 hit. Don't forget that Kovalchuk held out for more money in 05... And this is when Atlanta was considered a promising team. Kovalchuk just doesn't seem like the kind of guy who will take one for the team. FA is all about cashing in after all. I'm sure someone would be fine giving him 9-10 million yearly.
Maybe he just won't take one for THAT team.

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01-12-2010, 10:17 AM
  #925
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I believe he means rental as in, in all likelihood, he's heading to free agency regardless of where he finishes the season. Atlanta has stated that they won't allow negotiating windows, as foolish as that may be, considering it will probably lower their return some.

They got a top prospect (Esposito), Colby Armstrong (a valuable member of their team), Eric Christensen who had some value/upside at that point in his career (we're seeing a flashes of it now) and a 1st rounder. That's without a negotiating window.

It's a decent haul for a Hossa/Kovy type, maybe a negotiating window allows for a 2nd round pick or similarly valuable asset (B level prospect), but, Atlanta doesn't have to offer clubs the window, they'll do just fine without it.

I don't think anyone is questioning Kovy being a very solid building block for any franchise, just that Kovalchuk, like Hossa before him, is potentially as much of a rental as a long term acquisition.
Exactly. Kovy could get his money anywhere. That is given. He wants to win. NYR will never do.

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