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Ilya Kovalchuk (Rumor Update: 01/02/10) Post #432

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Old
12-15-2009, 10:16 AM
  #151
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Write it down, if Kovalchuk became a Ranger, a portion of the fanbase would be complaining about his attitude within weeks.
Meh, I don't think so. Most Ranger fans care about the point to paycheck ratio and nothing else. If he's scoring 50 goals, I doubt we'd see much complaining.

Besides, he's matured considerably over the last couple years. He's definitely a leader in Atlanta.

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12-15-2009, 10:21 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Meh, I don't think so. Most Ranger fans care about the point to paycheck ratio and nothing else. If he's scoring 50 goals, I doubt we'd see much complaining.

Besides, he's matured considerably over the last couple years. He's definitely a leader in Atlanta.
I remember several people complaining about Jagr despite his sweetheart cap hit and stellar production throughout most of his time here.

He has matured, Ill give you that. I remember in the 2007 playoffs when he was embarassingly nuetralized by Avery. But even still, last night when Prospal tripped him in the nuetral zone, he laid on the ice for an absurd amount of time yelling at the ref.

Dont get me wrong, if hes scoring 50 goals, I wouldnt care if he attacked Torts on the bench (in fact, at this point, Id probably thoroughly enjoy something like that), but with the scapegoating thats been going on around here...well...anything can happen.

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12-15-2009, 10:31 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I remember several people complaining about Jagr despite his sweetheart cap hit and stellar production throughout most of his time here.

He has matured, Ill give you that. I remember in the 2007 playoffs when he was embarassingly nuetralized by Avery. But even still, last night when Prospal tripped him in the nuetral zone, he laid on the ice for an absurd amount of time yelling at the ref.

Dont get me wrong, if hes scoring 50 goals, I wouldnt care if he attacked Torts on the bench (in fact, at this point, Id probably thoroughly enjoy something like that), but with the scapegoating thats been going on around here...well...anything can happen.
Fair enough. There's certainly an alarming number of people who appear to whine for the sake of whining. If we were a competitor, we might reduce our membership to like 50 people.

In terms of people's reaction to Jagr, that sort of tailed off once we saw his production. It only started to pick up again once our offense imploded. Kovalchuk is an absolute force. If he was on a line with an equally dangerous Gaborik, he'd have even more room to operate. A pretty scary thought for opposing defenses.

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12-15-2009, 10:33 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
His hit is 6.5M. His actual salary is $8MM this year.
Ok no fair enough. I thought he would refer to the hit as trying to get Kovalchuk within our cap would mean moving more assets and/or getting him on an extended contract that will pay big in the beginning and less later.

I actually just don't see how this could work unless we waive Rozi as well, but "Trxjw Moderator" as your tag says "More smarter than u" and truth be told, it's probably true.

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12-15-2009, 10:37 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Humvy99 View Post
Ok no fair enough. I thought he would refer to the hit as trying to get Kovalchuk within our cap would mean moving more assets and/or getting him on an extended contract that will pay big in the beginning and less later.

I actually just don't see how this could work unless we waive Rozi as well, but "Trxjw Moderator" as your tag says "More smarter than u" and truth be told, it's probably true.
I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. Just pointing out the numbers.

The tag about me being smarter is tongue-in-cheek. Nothing to be taken literally.

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12-15-2009, 10:41 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I remember several people complaining about Jagr despite his sweetheart cap hit and stellar production throughout most of his time here.

He has matured, Ill give you that. I remember in the 2007 playoffs when he was embarassingly nuetralized by Avery. But even still, last night when Prospal tripped him in the nuetral zone, he laid on the ice for an absurd amount of time yelling at the ref.

Dont get me wrong, if hes scoring 50 goals, I wouldnt care if he attacked Torts on the bench (in fact, at this point, Id probably thoroughly enjoy something like that), but with the scapegoating thats been going on around here...well...anything can happen.
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Fair enough. There's certainly an alarming number of people who appear to whine for the sake of whining. If we were a competitor, we might reduce our membership to like 50 people.

In terms of people's reaction to Jagr, that sort of tailed off once we saw his production. It only started to pick up again once our offense imploded. Kovalchuk is an absolute force. If he was on a line with an equally dangerous Gaborik, he'd have even more room to operate. A pretty scary thought for opposing defenses.
I'm someone who occasionally voiced displeasure over Jagr's "attitude," if you will, but then again I was kind of biased, because despite his stellar play (at least at first), I believed the Rangers needed to finish rebuilding instead of numerous first round playoff exits. He was fun to watch, but he wasn't what the team needed long term, and I still stand by that.

It was bothersome to see him lazily skate to the bench on a line change, especially since it led to more than a few goals over those years. That, actually, was what pissed me off much more than his lack of interest in playing defense itself. I know Kovalchuk can be a floater at times, but I'm more okay with that than if he doesn't hustle in situations where it's critical to do so.

But he is, not exactly in terms of play, but in level of talent, the Jagr to Ovechkin, Malkin, and Crosby's Lemieux, Gretzky, Bure, if you will. He's one of the best, and I personally believe a more complete offensive player than Gaborik, which is no insult to Gaborik. Getting him would be a huge coup if he becomes available.

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Old
12-15-2009, 11:33 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. Just pointing out the numbers.

The tag about me being smarter is tongue-in-cheek. Nothing to be taken literally.
I know bud. Its all good

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12-15-2009, 11:45 AM
  #158
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I know bud. Its all good
Good deal. I have to wear kid gloves with a lot of people around here unfortunately.

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Old
12-15-2009, 12:42 PM
  #159
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Kovalchuk for all of Redden/Rozi and Prospal and a 3rd... Make it happen Slats

So those of you advocating we trade for him... Why wouldn't we just hold out, trade our assets of Rozi and Redden for some minimal return or some decent return like Montreal and then pick him up as a FA...

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12-15-2009, 03:07 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Meh, I don't think so. Most Ranger fans care about the point to paycheck ratio and nothing else. If he's scoring 50 goals, I doubt we'd see much complaining.

Besides, he's matured considerably over the last couple years. He's definitely a leader in Atlanta.
from reading the thrashers boards here, I'm not sure if the attitude thing would have anyone complaining, but it seems like he likes to play with the puck a lot and often nights if he just doesn't have "it" its very annoying since it leads to turnovers. I'm sure that's going to drive some people up a wall (I'll admit, I'll probably be one of them.)

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:31 PM
  #161
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To the Thrahers fan: If it gets to the point where Atlanta is trying to trade him, then Atlanta is not dealing from a position of strength as every team knows he is going to hit the open market. No way the thrash gets the package you are claiming, they will get bent over, or if still in playoff position they may just hold onto him for the postseason and hope he changes his mind.

You have to imagine at this point Atlanta has offered him league max at whatever long term length he wants. If Kovi hasn't signed yet, it becomes more and more likely that he just doesn't want to stay in Atlanta. If the Rangers can get rid of Kotalik, Voros, and Roszival via waivers or trades they have 12.25 million off of the books next summer (including Higgins and Prospal's salary, but not including whatever they take back in said trades of those 3). That might be enough to extend Staal and Girardi while at least making an offer for Kovalchuk.

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Old
12-15-2009, 08:19 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
To the Thrahers fan: If it gets to the point where Atlanta is trying to trade him, then Atlanta is not dealing from a position of strength as every team knows he is going to hit the open market. No way the thrash gets the package you are claiming, they will get bent over, or if still in playoff position they may just hold onto him for the postseason and hope he changes his mind.

You have to imagine at this point Atlanta has offered him league max at whatever long term length he wants. If Kovi hasn't signed yet, it becomes more and more likely that he just doesn't want to stay in Atlanta. If the Rangers can get rid of Kotalik, Voros, and Roszival via waivers or trades they have 12.25 million off of the books next summer (including Higgins and Prospal's salary, but not including whatever they take back in said trades of those 3). That might be enough to extend Staal and Girardi while at least making an offer for Kovalchuk.
I disagree agree with this. Every team in the playoff mix is probably going to bend over backwards to get a player of Kovy's caliber for their playoff run.

From New York's point of view, I understand the reluctant in parting with assets now given your not going to make the playoffs this season and the better alternative that they could have a chance of signing him in the off season but one capitals fan on the trade proposals board didn't hesitate by proposing Semin, 2 first round picks and another player for the 'rental' of Kovalchuk. He obviously thinks Kovalchuk could be the final piece for a Capitals Stanley cup this season.

I think its a moot point. I will be extremely shocked if Kovalchuk doesn't re-sign.

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12-15-2009, 08:27 PM
  #163
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I am sick and tired of acquiring mercenaries from other teams. I want a homegrown franchise forward.

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12-15-2009, 08:36 PM
  #164
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I am sick and tired of acquiring mercenaries from other teams. I want a homegrown franchise forward.
yeah ****ing hate gabs here. jagr could have ****ed off too.

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12-15-2009, 08:40 PM
  #165
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yeah ****ing hate gabs here. jagr could have ****ed off too.
Exactly how many cups have we won with those guys? I thought so.

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12-15-2009, 08:41 PM
  #166
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I am sick and tired of acquiring mercenaries from other teams. I want a homegrown franchise forward.
Kovalchuk type players don't grow on trees. You do know he is 26 right? .. He has about 10 years left in his prime.

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12-15-2009, 08:51 PM
  #167
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How about this, assuming Kovy hits FA - 11 years / $78mm - Annual Cap Hit $7.1mm

$$$ Age

9m - 27
9m - 28
9m - 29
9m - 30
9m - 31
9m - 32
8m - 33
8m - 34
4m - 35
2m - 36
2m - 37
==
78mm

Pretty manageable for a Superstar player. Allows him to retire and still have a couple of good years at home in the KHL.

Clear some Space Slats!

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12-15-2009, 08:57 PM
  #168
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I disagree agree with this. Every team in the playoff mix is probably going to bend over backwards to get a player of Kovy's caliber for their playoff run.

From New York's point of view, I understand the reluctant in parting with assets now given your not going to make the playoffs this season and the better alternative that they could have a chance of signing him in the off season but one capitals fan on the trade proposals board didn't hesitate by proposing Semin, 2 first round picks and another player for the 'rental' of Kovalchuk. He obviously thinks Kovalchuk could be the final piece for a Capitals Stanley cup this season.

I think its a moot point. I will be extremely shocked if Kovalchuk doesn't re-sign.
Well then you are being ridiculous. Nobody is going to bend over backwards for someone hitting the open market this summer.

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12-15-2009, 08:57 PM
  #169
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Kovalchuk type players don't grow on trees. You do know he is 26 right? .. He has about 10 years left in his prime.
I know how old he is. My point is that you don't create team chemistry by acquiring a bunch of mismatched parts from other organizations. Look at teams that are succeeding in the salary cap era like Pitts, Wash and Chi. They have obtained their elite players through the draft and allowed those players to develop together and improve each year. Instead of learning from what these teams have done, we insist on sticking with a strategy that has brought us nothing but misery for 15 years now.

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12-15-2009, 09:10 PM
  #170
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Exactly how many cups have we won with those guys? I thought so.
our one cup run in my lifetime was a team filled with mercenaries supplemented with a few home grown superstars.

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12-15-2009, 09:17 PM
  #171
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our one cup run in my lifetime was a team filled with mercenaries supplemented with a few home grown superstars.
As we've seen, that is not a formula for consistent success.

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12-15-2009, 09:27 PM
  #172
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As we've seen, that is not a formula for consistent success.
A couple other things that we have learned... you need a good amount of genuine supreme talent to win a Stanley Cup. And the New York Rangers are not an organization that can scout, draft and develop said talent. Nor will they ever draft low enough to have a no miss fall into their laps. We also know they have Gaborik and Lundqvist in their primes. They have a couple young solid building blocks. Not stars of any kind. But solid. Seems that getting a player that's a no miss in his prime like Kovalchuk is perhaps the only way this organization is ever going to move toward contention. They just don't do it the right way and they never will.

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12-15-2009, 09:28 PM
  #173
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As we've seen, that is not a formula for consistent success.
This is true. It's also true that most superstars simply do not reach free agency while still in their prime. Gaborik was an aberration in that regard thanks to his injury history. Jagr, as good as he was with us that first year (freaking fantastic), was actually past his full prime by the time we got him. Frankly though, either 05-06 Jagr or Gaborik could lead this team to a cup if the rest of the team was worthy of contention.

Anyway, I don't see Kovalchuk signing with another NHL team as a FA. He's too much of a force. Teams do not let those guys just walk away in free agency. Either he signs an extension, somebody trades for him and signs him to an extension, or he signs in the KHL as a free agent because of the ridiculous money they can offer. I don't even know if he'd sign an extension with us if we dealt for him. We're pretty bad right now. It's pretty clear he'd have signed with Atlanta already if they were contenders. A max deal from them is as good as a max deal from anyone else in the league money-wise.

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12-15-2009, 09:30 PM
  #174
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A couple other things that we have learned... you need a good amount of genuine supreme talent to win a Stanley Cup. And the New York Rangers are not an organization that can scout, draft and develop said talent. Nor will they ever draft low enough to have a no miss fall into their laps. We also know they have Gaborik and Lundqvist in their primes. They have a couple young solid building blocks. Not stars of any kind. But solid. Seems that getting a player that's a no miss in his prime like Kovalchuk is perhaps the only way this organization is ever going to move toward contention. They just don't do it the right way and they never will.
Sad but true.

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12-15-2009, 10:14 PM
  #175
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Sad but true.
Thats a really good song.

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