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Old
12-13-2009, 10:15 PM
  #176
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It'll take a lot more than Halak+Lapierre+4th. You'll have to offer Halak+A.Kostitsyn+2nd just to get them to respond.

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12-13-2009, 10:16 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by SHartnell19 View Post
By the way, I do agree with you and I'd like to have Halak on the flyers. But saying that the flyers can't go anywhere with Emery in net is false. He's not a superstar, but if he has a good team in front of him, he can do the job perfectly. He proved it in Ottawa. And I've watched him play as much as you did for sure, I'm from Quebec City and I watch every habs games and a lot of sens games when they're on TV and I also watch every Flyers games. With that said, I'd like to have Halak, but he's not proven enough to give a guy like Giroux.
The Emery situation in PHI reminds me of Osgood in DET.. Good goalies, just not great goalies.. I'm not saying Halak is a great goalie, at least not yet but, Halak doesn't lose focus very often and has stood on his head while this team was gelling.. IMO

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Old
12-13-2009, 10:18 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Well what about both?

It's a tough question to answer for sure for me, unless we have no chance to re-sign Pleks. Then it's pretty obvious. Who do you think would fit better in our roster Carter or Plekanec? I'm not seeing too many play makers on the roster right now. Without Plekanec, there's Gomez left and ... maybe AK who isn't exactly at the same level as Plek.

Tough.
Considering that Carter would open ice for Cammy and be better than AKost on the forecheck, I'd be willing to give it a shot. As much as Plekanec is useful. Carter is good on faceoff, huge and can possibly score 50. I believe he'd be a serious upgrade. As much as I like Plekanec, he's still redundant as far as our depth at centre goes. Plus, he's signed long-term.

I think Carter would fit just as well in JM's system as Plekanec since he can really skate.


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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
If we knew we weren't going to be able to re-sign plekanec, we'd have to consider it...
No other way to get Carter than to give Plekanec. This ain't about dreaming here.

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Old
12-13-2009, 10:23 PM
  #179
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Carter would be awesome, but any deal that brings him here has to include some salary going the other way. We're up against it already and Carter is a 5 million salary.

Our big contracts are

Gomez
Cam
Gionta
Hammer
Markov

I think we can all agree that Hammer, Markov and Cam are untouchable.

The Flyers want a goalie badly, do they want one badly enough to take Gomez' contract. They have the space and he'd replace some of Carter's offence.

I doubt we're in the running for Carter or anyone else for that matter.

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Old
12-13-2009, 10:28 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Whether we can, or can't sign Plekanec, Bob Gainey's job it to make a winning team and let me tell you, that a team with Carter is more likely to win than a team with Plekanec.
key word there is "team"...

we need to be able to surround him with decent talent... even for this year, getting carter would require shedding salary elsewhere, then it limits our ability to manage the roster this summer, and as I pointed out, puts us in a real tight spot for 2011.

it's still worth it, for sure, but with the Gomez mistake hanging over the team, any roster moves in the near future will require some serious cap tap-dancing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post

No other way to get Carter than to give Plekanec. This ain't about dreaming here.
?
yes, fine, like I said, it would be tough to turn down...

if we know we can't re-sign pleks, than it's a much easier decision to make.
If Gainey knew pleks was willing to re-sign, and at a cap hit that favors us (less than he'd get as a UFA), then it becomes a tougher decision. I think I'd still do it, but that's because I'd be working my arse off to trade Gomez to anyone that would take him without forcing me to swallow a terrible long term contract coming back the other way.

Carter is, right now, as good or better than Pleks, and he's younger and with greater upside, so making the trade is almost a no-brainer. Halak is part of the deal, of course, but with pleks being a UFA and Halak a back-up (no matter how good we know he is), adding at least him to Pleks would be needed to get Carter from the flyers (and even then, i don't know that they do that deal...)

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Old
12-13-2009, 10:31 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
Would you do Carter for Halak and Plekanec?

Discuss.
Done deal.

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Old
12-14-2009, 12:02 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Done deal.
yes, if Plek can get 0.75 ppg surfing on Kovalev
and 1 pgg surfin on Cammalleri

imagine what Jeff frikkin Carter can get with Cammalleri, if he (84pts, 46 goals centering Lupul and Hartnell in 08-09) can get 1ppg.

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Old
12-14-2009, 12:03 PM
  #183
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Whats so great about Carter?? I am not hugely impressed with this guy.

He had a big season ok, he's on pace for 25 goals now this year. He doesn't play big, so despite being 6,3 the RAWR POWER FORWARD RRRRRR types around here still won't be happy. Oh and Carter is a party boy and is at the centre of the reported locker room clique problems in Philly. Just what we need after flushing out all the locker room problems of last season, a trade for a new Chris Higgins.

Carter vs Plekanec:
-Carter more of a scorer than a setup man at C (Habs already have 3 snipers on top 6). +Plek
-Carter taller, but Plekanec is sturdier and better built, Plek has proven work ethic commitment to fitness. Neither plays big. EVEN
-Both have blazing speed, good at PK. EVEN
-Carter has overall more natural talent. +Carter
-Plekanec is gelling nicely right now with Cammelleri & Andrei, playing as a legit top line. Replacing Plek with Carter could throw a wrench into line, risky. +Plek
-Carter 3 years younger, has good contract for a 45 goal scorer (85pts), not so great for current guy on pace for 25 goals, 50 pts. Plek playing PPG, up for UFA contract, will probably also get 4.5m to 5m. about EVEN.
-Already mentioned, Carter is at centre of Philly locker room problem rumours, has documented party boy problems. Plekanec seems like a serious, well behaved professional. +Plek

I am not a Plek fanboy, I admit I wanted to dump him last year, but this year he has proven me wrong and has completely changed his game, playing with a lot of poise & confidence with puck, complete rebound season. He is also beginning to gel nicely with Andrei & Squid, they are putting up some solid even strength production. Can't put a price on chemistry, especially with a guy who's gonna be our big player for next 5 seasons (Squid). Carter now has some question marks while this season Pleks has been all about answering his critics.

People should think twice about these Plek + Halak for Carter trades, it's not as clear cut as you may think.

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Old
12-14-2009, 12:39 PM
  #184
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I just don't see any contending team in the East trading a goalie to the Flyers and risk it costing themselves a playoff spot.

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Old
12-14-2009, 12:57 PM
  #185
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I'd do Carter for Halak and Plek in one second. I might even do it my NHL 10 game if its possible.

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Old
12-14-2009, 01:16 PM
  #186
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Halak+Lapierre for Carter. It's laughable. Might as well ask Santa Claus for a Stanley Cup.

Halak+Pleks, now that's a more reasonable and plausible trade. Tough call but I'd do it simply because Carter has more upside for playoffs even though he sucked so far in playoffs. But Bob wouldn't do it. Most trades don't happen when a player's (Plek) doing good for the team, only when it's not working or being so-so.


Last edited by Poulet Kostopoulos: 12-14-2009 at 01:21 PM.
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Old
12-14-2009, 01:46 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by dysonlu View Post
Halak+Lapierre for Carter. It's laughable. Might as well ask Santa Claus for a Stanley Cup.

Halak+Pleks, now that's a more reasonable and plausible trade. Tough call but I'd do it simply because Carter has more upside for playoffs even though he sucked so far in playoffs. But Bob wouldn't do it. Most trades don't happen when a player's (Plek) doing good for the team, only when it's not working or being so-so.
Only time now that Halak/Pleks would work is when Pleks is working his tail off. Other than that, last year Pleks would not work if this trade would be made today.

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Old
12-14-2009, 02:16 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Levine View Post
Halak and Weber for JVR? Done deal.
I would do it, it looks like a fair deal for both. I wouldnt be surprised if they would ask for Subban instead of Weber, that's how huge Jvr's potential is. BUT I JUST DONT SEE US TRADING with a team that is one of our rivals, it's just not happening in my opinion.

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Old
12-14-2009, 03:12 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Whats so great about Carter?? I am not hugely impressed with this guy.

He had a big season ok, he's on pace for 25 goals now this year. He doesn't play big, so despite being 6,3 the RAWR POWER FORWARD RRRRRR types around here still won't be happy. Oh and Carter is a party boy and is at the centre of the reported locker room clique problems in Philly. Just what we need after flushing out all the locker room problems of last season, a trade for a new Chris Higgins.

Carter vs Plekanec:
-Carter more of a scorer than a setup man at C (Habs already have 3 snipers on top 6). +Plek
-Carter taller, but Plekanec is sturdier and better built, Plek has proven work ethic commitment to fitness. Neither plays big. EVEN
-Both have blazing speed, good at PK. EVEN
-Carter has overall more natural talent. +Carter
-Plekanec is gelling nicely right now with Cammelleri & Andrei, playing as a legit top line. Replacing Plek with Carter could throw a wrench into line, risky. +Plek
-Carter 3 years younger, has good contract for a 45 goal scorer (85pts), not so great for current guy on pace for 25 goals, 50 pts. Plek playing PPG, up for UFA contract, will probably also get 4.5m to 5m. about EVEN.
-Already mentioned, Carter is at centre of Philly locker room problem rumours, has documented party boy problems. Plekanec seems like a serious, well behaved professional. +Plek

I am not a Plek fanboy, I admit I wanted to dump him last year, but this year he has proven me wrong and has completely changed his game, playing with a lot of poise & confidence with puck, complete rebound season. He is also beginning to gel nicely with Andrei & Squid, they are putting up some solid even strength production. Can't put a price on chemistry, especially with a guy who's gonna be our big player for next 5 seasons (Squid). Carter now has some question marks while this season Pleks has been all about answering his critics.

People should think twice about these Plek + Halak for Carter trades, it's not as clear cut as you may think.
Carter bring his size and his shoot. Nothing more than that, and that's exactly what the Habs need right now.

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Old
12-14-2009, 03:16 PM
  #190
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If flyers and the habs would deal together these trades would be fair value

Halak + D'ago for Claude Giroux

Halak + MaxPac + 2nd For JVR + 3rd

Halak + Pleks + D'ago for Carter + 2nd

now I'm obviously no GM but in my head these trades would make sense for both teams

people seem to forget the flyers are the desperate ones not the habs, Montreal is a few points away from playoffs with there 2best players still injured and markov being one or 2games away from coming back

in the other hand flyers were suppose to be cup contenders with the acquisition of pronger there obviously the desperate team looking for a trade partner,so if bob doesn't get what he wants he's simply keeping halak and flyers can pray Boucher does the job

BTW Gainey doesn't want or need injury prones like Gagne or Briere and there big contract

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Old
12-14-2009, 03:21 PM
  #191
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Carter is big but he plays soft, not a JM style player. I'd take him in a heartbeat but Phillie would want Price for him, not Halak.

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Old
12-14-2009, 03:31 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
If flyers and the habs would deal together these trades would be fair value

Halak + D'ago for Claude Giroux

Halak + MaxPac + 2nd For JVR + 3rd

Halak + Pleks + D'ago for Carter + 2nd

now I'm obviously no GM but in my head these trades would make sense for both teams

people seem to forget the flyers are the desperate ones not the habs, Montreal is a few points away from playoffs with there 2best players still injured and markov being one or 2games away from coming back

in the other hand flyers were suppose to be cup contenders with the acquisition of pronger there obviously the desperate team looking for a trade partner,so if bob doesn't get what he wants he's simply keeping halak and flyers can pray Boucher does the job

BTW Gainey doesn't want or need injury prones like Gagne or Briere and there big contract
im not Flyers fan but your first two "offers" borderline on the insulting. i have a feeling that you have no idea what those playears are capable of and where they stand with their current club. I have no idea why on earth you'd think for one second that this was a fair deal.

Let me put it this way: Ruslan Fedotenko and a 2nd for Halak + Cammalleri. That's about as much sense your trade offer makes.

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Old
12-14-2009, 04:02 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
Carter bring his size and his shoot. Nothing more than that, and that's exactly what the Habs need right now.
No the Habs need more skill all around. They got 2 established shooters already up front (Andrei, Squid), and another on the shelf (Gionta). They also have some bigtime skill on the shelf in the backend (Markov).

They have a space open in top 6 to play with Gomez & Gionta when he's back (maybe Sergei, maybe Pouliot, maybe whoever). How exactly does replacing Plekanec with Carter help things just when he's finding chemistry with Andrei and Squid?

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Old
12-14-2009, 04:03 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Jeff Carter (46 goal scorer from last season) and others like Staal and Mueller are available.

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/hoc...37436-sun.html

I know it's Bruce Garrioch, but Jeff Carter is exactly what we need on this team!

Jeff Carter
Center
Born Jan 1 1985 -- London, ONT
Height 6.03 -- Weight 193 -- Shoots R

My proposal and the reasons wh it works is:

To Philadelphia:

Jaroslav Halak + Maxime Lapierre + 4th round draft pick (Anaheim)

Why: Philadelphia needs a goalie and goaltending depth, Maxim Lapierre can replace carter in the top 6 or 9 and we give them the 4th round draft pick as a bonus.

To Montreal:

Jeff Carter + Nicola Riopel

Why: We need a top 6 BIG forward that can score and Nicola Riopel is a Quebec born young goaltender than can replace our goaltending depth with the loss of Halak while Sanford backs up Price.
OMG..please tell me you are joking. A 4th liner, a back-up goalie and a 4th round draft pick for a 46 goals scoring center with size. Seriously just stop whatever you are doing and take a nap!

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Old
12-14-2009, 04:05 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony View Post
im not Flyers fan but your first two "offers" borderline on the insulting. i have a feeling that you have no idea what those playears are capable of and where they stand with their current club. I have no idea why on earth you'd think for one second that this was a fair deal.

Let me put it this way: Ruslan Fedotenko and a 2nd for Halak + Cammalleri. That's about as much sense your trade offer makes.
that post shows ur hockey knowledge bro loll Halak and D'ago woudlnt be enough to land Giroux Or Halak MaxPac and a 2nd woudlnt land JVR LOLLL
I guess according to you will only have a bag of pucks in exchange for Halak

D'ago doesn't have much value I thinks it's fair enough to say that but if u think halak has no value than ur more then wrong and stop acting like it would take the hole farm to get Giroux or JVR

I liked ur comparision tho halak and cammy for fedotenko now that was a good one haha
keep pretending u know hockey buddy

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Old
12-14-2009, 04:07 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony View Post
im not Flyers fan but your first two "offers" borderline on the insulting. i have a feeling that you have no idea what those playears are capable of and where they stand with their current club. I have no idea why on earth you'd think for one second that this was a fair deal.

Let me put it this way: Ruslan Fedotenko and a 2nd for Halak + Cammalleri. That's about as much sense your trade offer makes.
I don't see how those offers are insulting or how those players compare to Fedotenko. D'agostini probably has marginal value, but Pacioretty, Halak and Plekanec are far from chopped liver. Holmgren may or may not do those deals(who knows maybe gainey thinks he's giving up too much).

Halak has good but not great trade value. Pacioretty has very good trade value, young big, good skater and starting to find his NHL game, Plekanec is a upcoming UFA but is real cheap and having a good year, looks great on anybody's payroll at 2.75 mil for a PPGM player.

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