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Del Zotto Getting a Free Pass by the Coach and Fans?

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Old
12-13-2009, 05:38 PM
  #26
Fataldogg
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
According to you,MDZ should be sent back to London.

Gilroy was not sent down for the OT goal. Apparently,they have been talking to him for a while about competing harder and their message goes in one ear and out the other. Mr.Hobey Baker needed a little reality check.
Fair enough. Sent down for not "competing." I may have missed the pre-game but no one on here should say that I'm ill informed when I've seen every Ranger game for the last four or five years. I see what goes on in terms of the play on the ice and that is the most important thing.

And in regards to "competing" how come he was the one penalized for it? A lot of players on this team don't "compete." Instead of using your promising rookie defense man as an example why not do it with your high paid team captain? He wins face offs, plays well on the PK but has 2 goals. To me, if you want to get a message across to the whole team, bench the team captain who hasn't been able to produce for his team during this offensive drought. That will send more of a message about "competing" over sending down your promising rookie defense man that everyone on here is so quick to defend as we have all said, rookie defense men make mistakes (and I agree with that). And don't fool yourself and say the play at Chicago had nothing to do with him being sent down. Sure, Gaborik's back check was criticized but if that play didn't happen I'd almost guarantee you that we would have seen Gilroy again.

Just like Kotalik not playing the PP was Tortorellas "gut." And he was looking for a big time play from a big time player (Drury). I'm not so sure that it was that or the fact that Kotalik was on the ice for the SH goal.

Alright, I'm already done with this thread. I get it, he is awesome, he is 19-years old and isn't open for criticism because of that. Lets just give him a Calder and close this thread. I guess I'll have to go back to booing and criticizing Redden and Roszival for all of their plays, even their good ones, like all of the other tools at MSG. Ranger fans never cease to amaze me. We can now get back to the "Fire Sale!" "Lundqvist Needs to GO!" and "Higgins Can't Produce," "Fire Sather," and "We Can't Win w/ Torts System" threads.


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Old
12-13-2009, 05:42 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
Fair enough. Sent down for not "competing." S I see what goes on in terms of the play on the ice and that is the most important thing.

And in regards to "competing" how come he was the one penalized for it? A lot of players on this team don't "compete." Instead of using your promising rookie defense man as an example why not do it with your high paid team captain? He wins face offs, plays well on the PK but has 2 goals. To me, if you want to get a message across to the whole team, bench the team captain who hasn't been able to produce for his team during this offensive drought. That will send more of a message about "competing" over sending down your promising rookie defense man that everyone on here is so quick to defend as we have all said, rookie defense men make mistakes (and I agree with that). And don't fool yourself and say the play at Chicago had nothing to do with him being sent down. Sure, Gaborik's back check was criticized but if that play didn't happen I'd almost guarantee you that we would have seen Gilroy again.

Just like Kotalik not playing the PP was Tortorellas "gut." And he was looking for a big time play from a big time player (Drury). I'm not so sure that it was that or the fact that Kotalik was on the ice for the SH goal.
I think every Ranger fan would agree it would be great to see Captain "Ca$h" "Failure" "Invisible" "Monotone" or whatever you want to call him, be held accountable for poor play. Torts called him out on it last night, and has before, but benching Drury would only cause more problems within the lockerroom I think.

As crappy as it might sound, we need his blair betts play considering how awful we are offensively. If we take away one of our better shotblockers and faceoff winners, well... then we'll find ourselves behind lowly Carolina soon. I was also opposed to him sitting Kotalik on that last powerplay too, despite the poor play earlier in the game, because this team NEEDS his shot from the point or else the powerplay is anemic.

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12-13-2009, 06:12 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
You're right. We should be torching the promising rookies too.
I'm with you, (not the literal meaning of your post, but your point.) It's over the top. Should MDZ be held to similar standards to Gilroy? Absolutely. Was Gilroy's treatment a bit too much? Probably.

The answer to every thread is this: readjust your expectations. This is not a good team. Outside of Lundqvist and Gaborik, you players are performing disproportionately to their salaries. Rookies are your consistent players. Veterans cannot find their game. We are littered with underachievers and soft quiters. We're back to the pre-lockout era. Our heroes are those who battle every shift. The vets are cashing in.

Once everyone stops expecting a win every night, when they just concentrate on brights spots and the future, they can get back to enjoying hockey again.

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12-13-2009, 06:18 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I'm with you, (not the literal meaning of your post, but your point.) It's over the top. Should MDZ be held to similar standards to Gilroy? Absolutely. Was Gilroy's treatment a bit too much? Probably.

The answer to every thread is this: readjust your expectations. This is not a good team. Outside of Lundqvist and Gaborik, you players are performing disproportionately to their salaries. Rookies are your consistent players. Veterans cannot find their game. We are littered with underachievers and soft quiters. We're back to the pre-lockout era. Our heroes are those who battle every shift. The vets are cashing in.

Once everyone stops expecting a win every night, when they just concentrate on brights spots and the future, they can get back to enjoying hockey again.
Well said. There's no way I'm holding MDZ to the same standards as the other blueline vets especially the oldest two making the most money. The team is being dragged down by a number of guys--starting with Drury, Redden, Rozsival and I'll add Kotalik. None of them have a pulse.

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12-13-2009, 06:24 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I'm with you, (not the literal meaning of your post, but your point.) It's over the top. Should MDZ be held to similar standards to Gilroy? Absolutely. Was Gilroy's treatment a bit too much? Probably.

The answer to every thread is this: readjust your expectations. This is not a good team. Outside of Lundqvist and Gaborik, you players are performing disproportionately to their salaries. Rookies are your consistent players. Veterans cannot find their game. We are littered with underachievers and soft quiters. We're back to the pre-lockout era. Our heroes are those who battle every shift. The vets are cashing in.

Once everyone stops expecting a win every night, when they just concentrate on brights spots and the future, they can get back to enjoying hockey again.
Fantastic post especially the bolded part, that's what i need to do at least personally so I can get back to enjoying Ranger's hockey.

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Old
12-13-2009, 09:12 PM
  #31
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I don't think it's a free pass, so much as an expectation that the kid is a rookie.

It's far more frustrating when you see guys making $3-6 million who play like crap.

A rookie at least gives the HOPE that brighter days may be ahead.

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Old
12-13-2009, 09:39 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hes 19. 19.

Did anyone really expect him to keep up the pace from the first 10 games?

Did you really expect no speedbumps for a 19 year old defensemen in the NHL?

Not only has he been fine considering the circumstances, but he is one of the very few bright spots on this team.
The guys from versus did. Remember that "Del Zotto will score 70 points tangent". Personally I think he's been fine, but the OP is correct, our fans are hypocrites. Rosival is always the scapegoat, and Kotalik is getting there as well. God forbid we blame the guys who deserve it.

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Old
12-13-2009, 09:41 PM
  #33
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The guys from versus did. Remember that "Del Zotto will score 70 points tangent". Personally I think he's been fine, but the OP is correct, our fans are hypocrites. Rosival is always the scapegoat, and Kotalik is getting there as well. God forbid we blame the guys who deserve it.
Mistakes are to be expected as players grow. As a player matures, those mistakes are supposed to stop or at least get less and less. Some players seem to have more mistakes as they are making a lot more money. Its what happens when you accept a position with more responsibility like a 5 million dollar contract/season for 4 years.

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12-13-2009, 09:47 PM
  #34
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Mistakes are to be expected as players grow. As a player matures, those mistakes are supposed to stop or at least get less and less. Some players seem to have more mistakes as they are making a lot more money. Its what happens when you accept a position with more responsibility like a 5 million dollar contract/season for 4 years.
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12-13-2009, 09:50 PM
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It is a 2-way street I agree.

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Old
12-13-2009, 10:00 PM
  #36
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I think the OP doesn't understand the difference between criticizing and teaching. I'm not a huge fan of the way Tortorella is handling a lot of this lineup, but do you truly believe that he isn't taking Del Zotto aside and showing him video of mistakes he's made and coaching him in practice on what to do in order to not make those mistakes?

You don't hold a rookie accountable in the same way you hold a veteran accountable.

As for the fans, I think most of us are smart enough to understand this and apply it to our analysis as such. We don't criticize him for some of his poor plays because we EXPECT these things to happen for now. If he's still making the same plays in his 3rd year, maybe it's time to criticize then. It's not a free pass, it's an understanding of how young defensemen develop.

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Old
12-13-2009, 10:17 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by NYRamonte10 View Post
I like this post. I'll admit DZ does a lot of great things to get the play going, but his production early on was more the result of other players than him. And last night, the third goal was absolutely not Kotalik's fault. Sometimes we as fans overlook who is struggling out there when they are going 100 percent. The fact is, you can be going all out and still not be making the right plays. Redden played well last night, he jumped up in the play at the right times and pinched well. I trust redden the most out of any of our D men.
I disagree, a lot of it had to do with Del Zotto. It's no coincidence that once MDZ came down to earth the powerplay did too.

And the third goal absolutely was Kotalik's fault; the only other person you can blame is Tortarella and the rest of the staff for trusting him on the point...don't listen to Micheletti and Maloney's propoganda. Their system is often times set up in an umbrella, and often times calls for 4 guys to be at the top of the circles and lower. Kotalik made a horrible decision and got caught flat footed. Maloney and Micheletti choose to blame MDZ yet MDZ was pinched in and the one that started the play.

I will agree that Redden is the most trusted d-man, but is that really saying much with this bunch?

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12-13-2009, 10:21 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I'm with you, (not the literal meaning of your post, but your point.) It's over the top. Should MDZ be held to similar standards to Gilroy? Absolutely. Was Gilroy's treatment a bit too much? Probably.

The answer to every thread is this: readjust your expectations. This is not a good team. Outside of Lundqvist and Gaborik, you players are performing disproportionately to their salaries. Rookies are your consistent players. Veterans cannot find their game. We are littered with underachievers and soft quiters. We're back to the pre-lockout era. Our heroes are those who battle every shift. The vets are cashing in.

Once everyone stops expecting a win every night, when they just concentrate on brights spots and the future, they can get back to enjoying hockey again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I don't think it's a free pass, so much as an expectation that the kid is a rookie.

It's far more frustrating when you see guys making $3-6 million who play like crap.

A rookie at least gives the HOPE that brighter days may be ahead.
You guys hit it on the head. Exactly how I feel.

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Old
12-13-2009, 10:25 PM
  #39
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for a rookie, MDZ has exceeded my expectation by leaps and bounds. hes just gotta readjust to the defensive schemes around him and add a little quickness in his first step.

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12-13-2009, 10:43 PM
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Only 6 points in last 19 games. Can you say bust? Trade him now.





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12-13-2009, 10:44 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
The answer to every thread is this: readjust your expectations. This is not a good team. Outside of Lundqvist and Gaborik, you players are performing disproportionately to their salaries. Rookies are your consistent players. Veterans cannot find their game. We are littered with underachievers and soft quiters. We're back to the pre-lockout era. Our heroes are those who battle every shift. The vets are cashing in.

Once everyone stops expecting a win every night, when they just concentrate on brights spots and the future, they can get back to enjoying hockey again.
While you do make a good point and this is somewhat of an enlightened way to view things, the fact of the matter is I don't think we can have the expectation that things are bad now and can only get better going forward.

We are already 4 years past the lockout and this team has shown no progress of improving since the 2005-2006 season. We are patching our holes with overpaid talent that has not made our team better, and this style of management has shown no sign of slowing down. This team of mediocrity and cap trouble didn't happen overnight, it has been gradually built over the course of the last 4 years by terrible mistakes, which means any change in the right direction from this point out will be either long or ineffective.

Our young players are overrated by everyone on this board as well. The likes of Dubinsky, Callahan, Staal, Gilory, Anisimov are marginal 2nd/3rd string talent that will not win us any games, exactly the type of players Sather brought up in Edmonton after the Oilers hey days. They would be great complimentary players if we had legitimate talent but we cannot guarantee with the cap trouble and the signings that have lead to this trouble that Sather will ever be able to bring it via free agency.

We cannot even enjoy our young players achieving anything because all that means is it will be hard for this team to keep them when their contract expires.

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:11 PM
  #42
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God forbid this team ever fully-rebuilds. Being critical on a 19 year old for lack of consistency? Are you serious?

It's called growing pains. This isn't a video game. It might take years for Del Zotto to remedy the areas of concern in his game. I thought this was expected.

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12-13-2009, 11:14 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I don't think it's a free pass, so much as an expectation that the kid is a rookie.

It's far more frustrating when you see guys making $3-6 million who play like crap.

A rookie at least gives the HOPE that brighter days may be ahead.
He's helped this team more than his 5M dollar mentor.

Even our golden boy, Staal, has looked a little mediocre at times. Girardi had a rough start to the season. Gilroy is in Hartford now. Redden has been good, but not 6.5M good.

Why the hell would anyone decide to criticize Del Zotto, I don't know... I guess it creates some new discussions?

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12-13-2009, 11:18 PM
  #44
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A 19-year old offensive defenseman is going to make mistakes.

I'm far less forgiving to a 30 year old who should no what is expected at this point.

Redden and Rozy wouldn't be horrible if they played and were paid accordingly - second or third pairing guys, who make second or third pairing money.

Rozy came out of nowhere, found chemistry with Jagr and cashed in. Once Jagr was gone (and arguably before), he became the same second/third pairing guy he really always was.

The problem we have is that we have too many guys who gave unmoveable, unrealistic deals. You can get by with one such deal, but not three or four or five. We lucked out with trading Gomez, but the fact remains that we've made some really stupid moves.

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:26 PM
  #45
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Lets think about this for a minute.

Del Zotto had a very fast start. He was on a point per game pace through October.

Over the past month or so, his offensive production has severely decreased.

What does MDZ have in commin with the rest of the team? Everything.

The team was up near the top of the league in offense during the first few weeks, going 7-1.

Now they rely on one guy to score. Del Zotto has fallen as the team has fallen.

Most defensemen rely on others to build their points up. Del Zotto has made many an outlet pass for near breakaways to see our awful forwards not score or miss the pass all together.

Maybe in the future MDZ will create offense by himself, but he needs experience and will grow into a great player.

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12-13-2009, 11:27 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
God forbid this team ever fully-rebuilds. Being critical on a 19 year old for lack of consistency? Are you serious?

It's called growing pains. This isn't a video game. It might take years for Del Zotto to remedy the areas of concern in his game. I thought this was expected.

Imagine if he has a sophomore slump next season?

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12-13-2009, 11:37 PM
  #47
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This is getting crazy. Del Zotto is exactly what Rangers fans have been dreaming of, a player with talent. A young player with talent.

I haven't read all the messages here, and sorry to say I did not even read the entire OP's message.

Just does not make sense in any shape or form to think he is getting a free pass.
He definitely looks like a very coachable player with a great attitude.

It's way too early to even mention Michael Del Zotto and free pass in the same sentence. If he is being given accolades in two years and still making rookie mistakes, and nobody is noticing them, then I guess the free pass thing would apply.

This is a whole lot of conjecture. The guy is doing really really well.

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12-13-2009, 11:59 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion
It's called growing pains. This isn't a video game. It might take years for Del Zotto to remedy the areas of concern in his game. I thought this was expected.
Might take years eh? Looks like Gilroy got about what, 28 games to remedy the areas of concern in his game?

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Old
12-14-2009, 12:02 AM
  #49
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Said it on another thread....the problem comes from having no 7th defenseman as in years past like Struds who can spell/push guys.
This is moreso this year with too inexperienced a defensive pairing.


There is a cheap answer.
Sign Malik.
He can fit several roles and do it affordably.

1) He brings out the best in Rozivahl.
-In 2005-2006 this pair had one of the best +/-, which is the best stat to judge defenseman on
-People got on Malik....but how has Rozy played since he's been gone? He's been lost.

2) Physical, big, stay at home, crease clearing type team lacks

3) Keeps the rest of the d honest...they could be benched with an extra guy

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12-14-2009, 12:05 AM
  #50
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Imagine if he has a sophomore slump next season?
Then the organization will be able to send him to Hartford and teach him a lesson!

Seriously, I'm willing to put up with Del Zotto's growing pains because that's exactly what I think they are--he's still trying to play his game and does seem to be learning from his mistakes. Plus, there is the fact that there's really nothing to do--except hope the coaching staff is working with him to get better (and I'm sure they are). He has to play and the only place he can play is with the New York Rangers. It's very clear he brings something that this team needs desperately and has been lacking for a while. Maybe there will come a point where he needs to sit through a game in the press box--something that will allow him to step back and see the whole game from a different perspective--but other than that, he has to play in order to get better. And it seems the sky's the limit.

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