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Old
12-15-2009, 06:19 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Druce View Post
Non-Pens fan here:

Letang was so instrumental to your team last year in the playoffs when Gonchar went down. He showed that he is a top pairing guy, IMO.
Not to say that Letang didn't up his game in the playoffs, but I think you are looking at points and making your conclusion off of that really. At least you cannot be be looking at quality of competition or ES icetime, because Letang played third pairing roles using those metrics both when Sarge was there and when he wasn't.
In last years playoffs that is. This year he is getting a bit less time on the PP, less on SH, and more ES time.

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Hopefully you guys find a way.
Thanks!

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12-15-2009, 08:35 AM
  #77
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In the end, Letang is still very much a work in progress as a player, which I think is the main reason as to why the Pens make a massive effort to keep him around long term.

The kid has already shown considerable improvements in his overall game since his rookie year, and we know he's only going to continue to get better. As much as we all love Gonchar, we all know that this is pretty much it for him in terms of development as a player. What we see from him now is pretty much what we're gonna see for the remainder of his career. Is it worth braking the bank for? In my opinon no. If he's willing to be somewhat humble and take a paycut to stick around, then I'm all for it.

Of course, I still very much see other teams around the league being desperate enough to dish out some serious coin to get an experienced PP quarterback like Gonchar on their blueline, even in spite of his defensive shortcomings and his injury issues.

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12-15-2009, 12:57 PM
  #78
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Although I am stating the obvious, whether or not Letang stays here will depend primarily on price. Given that he does not play on the 1st PP unit, and that he kills penalties less than all of the other top 6 D, it's clear where he stands in Bylsma's hierarchy. If he's not going to be happy making something in the $mid2 million range, he'll probably be elsewhere next year, is my guess.

The complicating factor is the fact that only Orpik and Goligoski are signed for next year, so far. But RS seems to know what he is doing.

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12-15-2009, 01:20 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by hockeydadx2 View Post
Although I am stating the obvious, whether or not Letang stays here will depend primarily on price. Given that he does not play on the 1st PP unit, and that he kills penalties less than all of the other top 6 D, it's clear where he stands in Bylsma's hierarchy. If he's not going to be happy making something in the $mid2 million range, he'll probably be elsewhere next year, is my guess.

The complicating factor is the fact that only Orpik and Goligoski are signed for next year, so far. But RS seems to know what he is doing.
Letang is 22 years old. He's also missed time earlier this season due to injury. And most definitely, he's not playing great hockey right now. But I doubt the organization is making such cut-and-dry conclusions as your drawing here.

Just because he's not on the PP unit NOW, doesn't mean he's not capable of reclaiming the job at some point, or taking Sarge's spot when the latter leaves. And just because he's not seeing a lot of PK time NOW, doesn't mean he won't in the near future.

As you said, we only have two defensemen signed for next year. It would be beyond ASSININE to allow our best young defenseman to walk. Shero's not dumb, he's going to ink Letang for several seasons.

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Old
12-15-2009, 02:05 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Elephant In The Room View Post
Why not?
I'll back track a little. Good asset management says to trade him. With that though, if we are making a run, I like our team much better with him than without him. I don't believe we have the personnel right now to pick up his slack. If we did I wouldn't care if he was moved or not. Also, I don't want to give another team an elite offensive defenseman that could come back to haunt us. Circumstances couldn't see him on a contender we may face.

A lot goes into that answer - a ton of 'what it' scenarios. If we weren't in the playoff picture, I'd trade him, but I don't expect that to happen.

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Old
12-15-2009, 02:18 PM
  #81
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I think were a better team with Letang. I just don't like our defense without him in lieu of a winger. If we trade Letang and Gonchar walks, we are screwed.

Gonchar-Orpik
Goligoski-McKee
Eaton-Skoula

We can always add decent wingers in FA or in deadline deals without breaking up the young championship core of the team.

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Old
12-15-2009, 02:36 PM
  #82
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Letang makes a couple WOW plays a game, however he is consistently our worst defenseman on the ice out there. No way he is worth anymore than 2.5M for three or four years. If he wants higher than that, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:05 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
I think we'll get both Tang and Gonch signed to short-term deals.
Much as I love having Gonchar on this team, I think he's gone after the season. Financially there's no way they can keep him without sacrificing Letang and other young players. A friend of mine knows Gonchar and told me that he loves it here and would stay if the Pens give him a reasonable contract, but he expects to be playing somewhere else next season. They'll struggle on the blueline without him.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:22 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Culloden View Post
Letang makes a couple WOW plays a game, however he is consistently our worst defenseman on the ice out there. No way he is worth anymore than 2.5M for three or four years. If he wants higher than that, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
If he was making a couple of wow plays a game, there would be no one opposing him getting 3.5-4 million on a long term contract.

Everything about Letang's game is inconsistent. His offense, his defense, his physicality, and his decision making.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:24 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Egostick View Post
Much as I love having Gonchar on this team, I think he's gone after the season. Financially there's no way they can keep him without sacrificing Letang and other young players. A friend of mine knows Gonchar and told me that he loves it here and would stay if the Pens give him a reasonable contract, but he expects to be playing somewhere else next season. They'll struggle on the blueline without him.
I wonder why everybody loves Gonchar that much. Come on, our PP is 29th in the league, I think we could not be that much worse there, without him..I could imagine that Crosby could also play on the point, or Malkin of course.

everybody who watched closer, saw that Gonchar is just really really bad defensivly..he just poke checks with zero effort...I would LOVE to trade him. I mean it's not like it was 2-3 years ago, where we had nobody to take his place. Letang and Gogo will only improve. If RS doesn't trust them, he can also get one d-man back in the trade of Gonchar, or look at free agency next season. I think it is stupid to think that RS should not fixs anythink, because we're still winning (..the: if it's not broken, don't fix it" crapp)..

I think trading him would help us in the long run, easily.

and yeah...Letang should get 2.25 m per for 3 or 4 years and be happy. there is just no way, that he gets more than 2 on a one or two year deal...(compare him to JJ(1.45 for 2 years I think) or others..)

so I don't worry at all...we'll be a very competitive team, alone because we have those two kids up front,Staal,Letang,Gogo, Orpik and Fleury...I think you can not ask for a better core..

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:30 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
If he was making a couple of wow plays a game, there would be no one opposing him getting 3.5-4 million on a long term contract.

Everything about Letang's game is inconsistent. His offense, his defense, his physicality, and his decision making.
Well he does, he will make a terrific breakout pass from red line to red line at the start of a shift, and then get lost, lose his gap, and cause a two on one against via a bad jump.


His consistency and hockey sense is in question. You do not pay 4M for inconsistent players who have the ability to make a flashy play. He may develop into the Penguins best defender in five years, however paying now for development later is extremely risky-especially with a team as cap strapped as we are.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:33 PM
  #87
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I would have less problem with trying to keep Gonchar if he hadn't reverted back to his old play after the latest injury. It's really not that far fetched to assume that we might have seen the best hockey Gonchar's ever played and that's downhill from here.

But I don't know his medical report, what he's asking, how he's doing in practice or anything like that, so I'm just gonna leave it at that.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:41 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Letang is 22 years old. He's also missed time earlier this season due to injury. And most definitely, he's not playing great hockey right now. But I doubt the organization is making such cut-and-dry conclusions as your drawing here.

Just because he's not on the PP unit NOW, doesn't mean he's not capable of reclaiming the job at some point, or taking Sarge's spot when the latter leaves. And just because he's not seeing a lot of PK time NOW, doesn't mean he won't in the near future.

As you said, we only have two defensemen signed for next year. It would be beyond ASSININE to allow our best young defenseman to walk. Shero's not dumb, he's going to ink Letang for several seasons.
Hopefully. But it won't be for $3.5million/yr.

It's too bad that the evolution of contracts under the new CBA essentially got rid of the "second contract". Under the old scenario, guys like Letang would be much more reasonably priced and better evaluated before a team had to make a megadollar decision.

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Old
12-15-2009, 04:18 PM
  #89
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I'd keep Letang before Gonchar and wouldn't think about it twice. Gonch is better offensively and defensively, but Letang is much younger, physical, a wonderful skater and he'll cost less. Plus he played great in the playoffs. I'd be happy with 3M/yr for as many years as possible.

As for Gonchar, I say keep him and let him go after the playoffs. Good management seems to say "trade him before we lose him for nothing" but in reality I don't think it is true. I think given their team structure the Pens will keep looking for veterans who want to play for a winner, and will play for less. If if they see that we reward our veterans by getting rid of them for a draft pick or 2 they won't want to sign here. Team reputation is a factor in a free agent's destination IMO.
Plus Gonchar is a top defenseman in the league and trading him would hurt our chances at a long playoff run.

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12-15-2009, 04:21 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeydadx2 View Post
Hopefully. But it won't be for $3.5million/yr.

It's too bad that the evolution of contracts under the new CBA essentially got rid of the "second contract". Under the old scenario, guys like Letang would be much more reasonably priced and better evaluated before a team had to make a megadollar decision.
The old system was handing out massive contracts to 35-year-old UFAs. It wasn't a better system.

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12-15-2009, 04:38 PM
  #91
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Shero hasn't done a good job playing with the years on our long-term contracts - I hope he looks around at what the rest of the league is doing and applies it to Letang's contract. 10 year $30 Mil would be perfect.

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12-15-2009, 04:40 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by hockeydadx2 View Post
Although I am stating the obvious, whether or not Letang stays here will depend primarily on price. Given that he does not play on the 1st PP unit, and that he kills penalties less than all of the other top 6 D, it's clear where he stands in Bylsma's hierarchy. If he's not going to be happy making something in the $mid2 million range, he'll probably be elsewhere next year, is my guess.

The complicating factor is the fact that only Orpik and Goligoski are signed for next year, so far. But RS seems to know what he is doing.
I see this as Ray letting these guys earn their next contract, so... Its up to them whether they stay or go and I can see someone getting signed right after the deadline. At least I'm hoping this is the case, don't want too many disgruntle players going into the playoffs.

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12-15-2009, 04:41 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by odds View Post
I see this as Ray letting these guys earn their next contract, so... Its up to them whether they stay or go and I can see someone getting signed right after the deadline. At least I'm hoping this is the case, don't want too many disgruntle players going into the playoffs.
Agreed, I think Shero has made his players "earn" their contracts, with the only exception being a certain one player..

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12-15-2009, 04:48 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The old system was handing out massive contracts to 35-year-old UFAs. It wasn't a better system.
Pick your poison. Too much money for washed up guys, or $3.5million for Jeff Finger. Neither is optimal. At least the old guys did something before they got paid, and Finger never did, and never will.

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Old
12-15-2009, 04:50 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Shero hasn't done a good job playing with the years on our long-term contracts - I hope he looks around at what the rest of the league is doing and applies it to Letang's contract. 10 year $30 Mil would be perfect.
if Letang's agent lets him sign that he's an idiot.

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Old
12-15-2009, 04:54 PM
  #96
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Agreed, I think Shero has made his players "earn" their contracts, with the only exception being a certain one player..
Pascal Dupuis? Miro Satan?Fedex?Guerin? who could it be.

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Old
12-15-2009, 04:55 PM
  #97
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if Letang's agent lets him sign that he's an idiot.
I still think Crosby / Malkin should have been signed to a 10 year deal, minimum. It's the only way to circumvent the cap and get a little more bang for your buck. With a player like Crosby/Malkin, its absolutely a no brainer to lock them up as long as possible at the lowest possible cap hit. They did more in their first 1-2 years than most players do in their entire career.

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12-15-2009, 05:38 PM
  #98
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For anybody that hasn't seen it there is a Marleau-to-Pittsburgh thread that has turned into a conversation about Letang-for-Setoguchi. I personally am in the camp that would prefer to keep Letang over Goncher due to age and cost, but I would have a hard time not doing this deal if I thought I could keep Gonch for a couple more years at a reasonable price.

What do you guys and gals think you would do if SJ called and offered that deal?

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12-15-2009, 05:53 PM
  #99
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For anybody that hasn't seen it there is a Marleau-to-Pittsburgh thread that has turned into a conversation about Letang-for-Setoguchi. I personally am in the camp that would prefer to keep Letang over Goncher due to age and cost, but I would have a hard time not doing this deal if I thought I could keep Gonch for a couple more years at a reasonable price.

What do you guys and gals think you would do if SJ called and offered that deal?
If he was signed to a long-term deal for a reasonable cap hit (sub $4M), sure. He's exactly what we need, a skilled top-6 winger with a right handed shot.

I can't see the Sharks making the deal though - they have plenty of D-Men and I'm not sure why they would trade away a 30g,30a guy in his second full season.

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Old
12-15-2009, 05:57 PM
  #100
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I'd trade Letang for Setoguchi in a second.

They are both really young, really talented and have extremely high ceilings. The difference is that the Pens have much more defensive depth than they do winger depth, and Setoguchi is a righty so it's all that much better.

I like Letang a lot, and think he'll be a very good player for years to come, but imagining Setoguchi and Crosby for the long haul is just too appealing to pass up.

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