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Old
01-03-2010, 07:12 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
Only the first four, please.
No manny or joslin?

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01-03-2010, 08:16 AM
  #77
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This really depends on if we win a cup. This may be the last year. I think if we don't, the whole core (Thornton, Marleau, Heatley, Boyle, Nabokov) gets traded or isnt resigned and we become the first team in NHL history to win back to back regular season titles yet go into rebuilding mode that summer.

PS If Kovy goes to Chicago I'm going to **** myself.

PSS I bet Blake retires after this season and Thornton is made the captain, assuming they don't clear house.

PSSS If they lose in the finals then I think they probably don't clear house. If they lose in the third round then maybe they don't, but more likely that they will. First two rounds though and I'm almost positive they will, although if Thornton's gone I will cry.


Last edited by Derick*: 01-03-2010 at 09:11 AM.
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01-03-2010, 10:09 AM
  #78
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Every year we "clear" house. This team needs to just pick a course and stick to it instead of going for the quick fix all the time.

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01-03-2010, 10:18 AM
  #79
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How do we clear house every year? We've had the same franchise player for half a decade. There's been big changes but clearing house basically means "this core of good players is not the one we're going to win a championship with, let's get a load of prospects and hope we're good in five years." That's about the opposite of a quick fix, too (although what we have done could be called quick fixes, like picking up Heatley or picking up rentals like Guerin or Campbell). I also don't necessarily think we should clear house, just that DW will if we don't win a cup. Or the GM that replaces DW if he gets fired.

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01-03-2010, 11:19 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
I suspect in the offseason that Huskins will be traded and Setoguchi will be signed by another team to an offersheet.
Huskins being moved is hopefully a real possibility.

In regards to Setoguchi, I doubt it. It takes two to sign an offer sheet. I don't think Devin is interested in going elsewhere at this stage and I don't think there are many teams that will be willing or capable of making the offer needed to prevent the Sharks from matching.

If we go off the 2009 RFA compensation list, a 4.6 million dollar offer sheet would give the Sharks a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. So not only does the offering team need to have those picks, they need to have that space to burn. I also think Doug Wilson would match anything up to 5 mil but I don't think it will come to any of that. I think Seto will re-sign before the RFA period opens up.

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01-03-2010, 11:45 AM
  #81
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If we assume that Seto and Pavs sign each at 3.5 mil (disputable of course), and the team re-signs Nichol and Ortmeyer to 750k, Joslin to 650k, and Staubitz to 550k, this is what we'll have...

11 forwards, 6 defensemen, 1 goalie, and 11.1 mil in cap space. This is before signing Marleau, Nabokov, Blake, and Malhotra. If Blake decides to retire, they must acquire a top four defenseman and that's not going to be easy. Clowe for Ian White makes sense in a lot of ways. There will be free agent defensemen out there but the cost to acquire one in cap space will be too great, I believe.

Marleau's new contract here, if there is one, will obviously heavily impact what our team is going to do. I think sticking to a short term contract will be a mistake because they won't be able to lower the cap hit much as we saw in his last deal. 6.3 mil with an NTC coming off of a bad Detroit playoff series where he still had another year to go. If that kind of deal happens here again, we're looking at 7 mil per season and then we're looking at heavy turnover to fill in elsewhere. That means in all likelihood no Nabokov and the trading of either Clowe or Murray. They have to get him long term, let him walk, or flat out pray that Marleau is willing to stay for a stupidly low salary.

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01-03-2010, 12:29 PM
  #82
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If JS19 was Doug Wilson...

Call me crazy...but I think Patrick Marleau will sign a Savard-like contract

With that being said...if I was in Doug Wilson's Shoes I'd do this...

Offense
Marleau (resign him for 7yr/5mil per.) - Thornton (7.2) - Heatley (7.5)
Clowe (3.6) - Pavleski (Sign him for: 4yr/3mil per.) - Setoguchi (Sign him for: 1yr/1.8mil per.)
Mitchell (1.6) - Malhotra (Sign him for: 3yr/950k per.) - Ortmeyer (Sign him: 3yr/750k per)
McLaren (0.419) - Nichol (Sign him for: 2yr/800k per.) - McGinn (0.857)

Defense
Murray (2.5) - Boyle (6.66)
Vlasic (3.1) - trade for Toronto's White and sign him for 5yr/2mil per.
Demers (0.543) - Leach (0.487)

Goaltending
Nabokov (4.5)
Griess (0.550)

Total Cap Payroll: $53.816 million (it becomes 55.816 if you sign Zidlicky to 4yr/4 mil per)
Cap Space (56.8 million): $2.984 million (becomes about 1million if Zidlicky is signed)

Key Moves:
- Waive Kent Huskins to the minors
- Setoguchi gets a short contract for motivation
- Looking at Free Agency, Zidlicky seems like a good defenseman to sign/ or you can flaunt the 1st round pick @ Brian Burke to get White.
- Let Blake walk...or pray that he retires.

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01-04-2010, 08:24 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derick View Post
How do we clear house every year? We've had the same franchise player for half a decade. There's been big changes but clearing house basically means "this core of good players is not the one we're going to win a championship with, let's get a load of prospects and hope we're good in five years." That's about the opposite of a quick fix, too (although what we have done could be called quick fixes, like picking up Heatley or picking up rentals like Guerin or Campbell). I also don't necessarily think we should clear house, just that DW will if we don't win a cup. Or the GM that replaces DW if he gets fired.
By clear house I am not referring to our "franchise players." What I meant was trading away our prospects, our draft picks, and generally giving up on our players and not giving them time to develop.

It seems like this team thinks if we don't win it all during a year then we have to give up on certain people. I'd like to see them let the team actually gell together for more than a season before losing major players. Also, we sacrifice our future for the now instead of working with the team we have.

Our team is full of skill, but we squander away so much of it. Losing Error really hurt. Additionally losing those 1st round picks hurt, and one could argue that we've done well without them, but that is not the norm. Yes we've lucked out with out late picks with people like Nabby, but truly we need to have a stronger lot of prospects. Additionally, it looks like this year we will be either trading away a good player and/or high draft picks for a top pairing D. Ironically, the type of defenseman we are looking for is everything Error was.

Also, I'd take PM on my team EVERY time over Heatley. I will be extremely upset if we let him walk.

So I guess you are right, we haven't cleared house, and I had a feeling someone might ask me to elaborate on that, but I feel like we clear house on our organizational building techniques(draft picks, prospects, developing players), and it is finally starting to catch up with us.

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Old
01-04-2010, 12:20 PM
  #84
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Err, just a note on next years roster, it needs to include Logan C and maybe another prospect. Manny, Nichol and Jed were all signed to 1 year deal cause DW did not want to commit to them past this season if a prospect was ready to fill in or the players them selves we're up to the task. So, don't just give any of these three contracts at this point past this season as Logan will be ready for the NHL next season, perhaps Ferrieo will. I think McLaren, Stabutiz have also proven themselves as sand paper/shelly replacement players. Of course all these prospects will still have to earn the roster spot in camp next season as well as with their play this season.

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01-04-2010, 01:00 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by VP and GM View Post
Err, just a note on next years roster, it needs to include Logan C and maybe another prospect. Manny, Nichol and Jed were all signed to 1 year deal cause DW did not want to commit to them past this season if a prospect was ready to fill in or the players them selves we're up to the task. So, don't just give any of these three contracts at this point past this season as Logan will be ready for the NHL next season, perhaps Ferrieo will. I think McLaren, Stabutiz have also proven themselves as sand paper/shelly replacement players. Of course all these prospects will still have to earn the roster spot in camp next season as well as with their play this season.
I think Frazer McLaren has proven himself as the type of player Doug Wilson would want to see on the bottom lines. However, if they go back to Logan Couture and/or Benn Ferriero on those lines, they'd be falling back into the fault they had with Marcel Goc and Tomas Plihal on those lines. I don't think he'll do that. If it's not Nichol, Ortmeyer, and Malhotra for whatever reason, he'll find other veterans to replace them.

Especially in Logan Couture's case, I think it's 2nd line or the AHL for him. And with Jamie McGinn seemingly the next in line with his play, I think Couture getting moved is more of a possibility even if Marleau walks or if Clowe/Setoguchi has to be dealt.

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01-04-2010, 05:29 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I think Frazer McLaren has proven himself as the type of player Doug Wilson would want to see on the bottom lines. However, if they go back to Logan Couture and/or Benn Ferriero on those lines, they'd be falling back into the fault they had with Marcel Goc and Tomas Plihal on those lines. I don't think he'll do that. If it's not Nichol, Ortmeyer, and Malhotra for whatever reason, he'll find other veterans to replace them.

Especially in Logan Couture's case, I think it's 2nd line or the AHL for him. And with Jamie McGinn seemingly the next in line with his play, I think Couture getting moved is more of a possibility even if Marleau walks or if Clowe/Setoguchi has to be dealt.
I agree for the most part, i do think Couture could play on the 3rd line next season with McGinn and Mitchel w/o harming his development - third line gets minutes yet, is not relied on for primary scoring. Just think, we could have a real third line that can score for a change (read as better than we've had in a while including now!).
Who knows with roster changes what the line combos could be..

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01-04-2010, 05:42 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by VP and GM View Post
I agree for the most part, i do think Couture could play on the 3rd line next season with McGinn and Mitchel w/o harming his development - third line gets minutes yet, is not relied on for primary scoring. Just think, we could have a real third line that can score for a change (read as better than we've had in a while including now!).
Who knows with roster changes what the line combos could be..
Yes but all the talk about grit and sandpaper...I think they have a certain vision of what they want there and I don't believe Logan Couture fits that ideally. McGinn, Mitchell, and McLaren do but I don't think they see Couture that way.

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01-04-2010, 05:46 PM
  #88
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I think it also depends on our success in the playoffs this year. If we do win the Cup, I see Doug getting youngsters into the roster, and you can have something like McGinn - Couture - Mitchell ; McLaren/Ferriero - Nichol - Ortmeyer
If we don't, well, I don't want to think about it, but I see Couture and Ferriero playing in the AHL for another season.

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01-04-2010, 06:18 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Yes but all the talk about grit and sandpaper...I think they have a certain vision of what they want there and I don't believe Logan Couture fits that ideally. McGinn, Mitchell, and McLaren do but I don't think they see Couture that way.
Do you have quotes or data from the Sharks on this??

Not every player needs to have grit, etc. to be on the roster. Is Pavs a grit and sandpaper kind of player, not really. Logan is probally more a skill player and would complement the others on your list.

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01-04-2010, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
I think it also depends on our success in the playoffs this year. If we do win the Cup, I see Doug getting youngsters into the roster, and you can have something like McGinn - Couture - Mitchell ; McLaren/Ferriero - Nichol - Ortmeyer
If we don't, well, I don't want to think about it, but I see Couture and Ferriero playing in the AHL for another season.
I agree. I'll add that it depends on Setos and Pavs contract talks also.

Just remember that the Sharks have a track record of getting players into the NHL after proving themselves in the AHL. Coulture and probably Ferriero, if all goes well, won't have anything to prove in the AHL level after this season -- that's hard to say given there is a lot of hockey to be played yet! If they have continue to have decent seasons at that level, then come to camp and win a job, they are gonna be in the NHL next year. This problem does not exist until training camp or summer time.

I do think you can hard development of prospects by not promoting them to the next level if they are ready. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

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01-04-2010, 08:47 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VP and GM View Post
Do you have quotes or data from the Sharks on this??

Not every player needs to have grit, etc. to be on the roster. Is Pavs a grit and sandpaper kind of player, not really. Logan is probally more a skill player and would complement the others on your list.
Pavelski isn't a bottom six player which is what I was talking about. That's why I believe Couture is a top six guy or in the AHL. No, not every player needs grit but I don't believe that Doug Wilson wants his 3rd and 4th lines to be a scoring/skill line. It's going to be a grit/energy line. Their actions seem to point to that.

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01-04-2010, 09:17 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Pavelski isn't a bottom six player which is what I was talking about. That's why I believe Couture is a top six guy or in the AHL. No, not every player needs grit but I don't believe that Doug Wilson wants his 3rd and 4th lines to be a scoring/skill line. It's going to be a grit/energy line. Their actions seem to point to that.
I did not mean to imply that Pavs was a bottom 6 player, he's not. I did want to
imply that he's more of a skill player and less of a grit player. I believe that Coulture may be a top 6 player after a year or two in the NHL - he won't be his first year i believe - so, ok with me if he starts as a third liner to get his NHL legs. He could line up with other bottom 6 players his first year, and those players could be grit and/or skill based. I do believe that DW wants secondary scoring from the 3rd and 4th lines.

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01-04-2010, 09:42 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by VP and GM View Post
I did not mean to imply that Pavs was a bottom 6 player, he's not. I did want to
imply that he's more of a skill player and less of a grit player. I believe that Coulture may be a top 6 player after a year or two in the NHL - he won't be his first year i believe - so, ok with me if he starts as a third liner to get his NHL legs. He could line up with other bottom 6 players his first year, and those players could be grit and/or skill based. I do believe that DW wants secondary scoring from the 3rd and 4th lines.
Whether or not Pavelski is a skill player or not is irrelevant to the point. The 3rd and 4th lines were made out with the thought of them bringing grit, sandpaper, and energy and thinking that bringing those things will lead to the goals. Couture is not that kind of player. That's why I believe he won't be there unless he's ready for top six duties.

DW wants secondary scoring but it's not realistic with the talent he has to make it a skill 3rd scoring line. Putting Couture on the 3rd line doesn't mesh with what they're going with now. He's not that kind of player. I think it's a better possibility that he would be used on the 2nd line if they need to replace Marleau or Clowe than it is for him to be on a checking line. Remember, that 3rd line's not just meant to be a secondary scoring line. One of its goals is to be a staunch defensive line. I think them being a good defensive line that brings energy, grit, and physicality is more important than scoring at this stage.

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01-04-2010, 10:19 PM
  #94
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I think Frazer McLaren has proven himself as the type of player Doug Wilson would want to see on the bottom lines. However, if they go back to Logan Couture and/or Benn Ferriero on those lines, they'd be falling back into the fault they had with Marcel Goc and Tomas Plihal on those lines. I don't think he'll do that. If it's not Nichol, Ortmeyer, and Malhotra for whatever reason, he'll find other veterans to replace them.

Especially in Logan Couture's case, I think it's 2nd line or the AHL for him. And with Jamie McGinn seemingly the next in line with his play, I think Couture getting moved is more of a possibility even if Marleau walks or if Clowe/Setoguchi has to be dealt.
What? There is no way that Mcginn makes Couture expendable.

Couture is way higher on the list to keep than Mcginn, and idk how you could argue that.

Right now Mcginn has done nothing to show he is top six material. Yes he is is playing 3rd line mins now and has for most of the season, but in the time he was on the 2nd line he didnt do crap.

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01-05-2010, 01:04 AM
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Whether or not Pavelski is a skill player or not is irrelevant to the point. The 3rd and 4th lines were made out with the thought of them bringing grit, sandpaper, and energy and thinking that bringing those things will lead to the goals. Couture is not that kind of player. That's why I believe he won't be there unless he's ready for top six duties.

DW wants secondary scoring but it's not realistic with the talent he has to make it a skill 3rd scoring line. Putting Couture on the 3rd line doesn't mesh with what they're going with now. He's not that kind of player. I think it's a better possibility that he would be used on the 2nd line if they need to replace Marleau or Clowe than it is for him to be on a checking line. Remember, that 3rd line's not just meant to be a secondary scoring line. One of its goals is to be a staunch defensive line. I think them being a good defensive line that brings energy, grit, and physicality is more important than scoring at this stage.
Well, i'm at a point where we can agree to disagree on the 3rd line and wether Logan is a fit there - only time will tell...

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01-05-2010, 01:09 AM
  #96
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What? There is no way that Mcginn makes Couture expendable.

Couture is way higher on the list to keep than Mcginn, and idk how you could argue that.

Right now Mcginn has done nothing to show he is top six material. Yes he is is playing 3rd line mins now and has for most of the season, but in the time he was on the 2nd line he didnt do crap.
Well, the fact that he's playing in the NHL and has 7 goals in limited minutes and Couture isn't actually with the big club does say where they're at and that's pretty freaking obvious.

I'm not even saying that McGinn makes Couture expendable. I'm saying he could considering he is improving and is closer to being ready for those duties than Couture is. If the Sharks need a top six winger next season, it will be Jamie McGinn, not Logan Couture.

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01-05-2010, 01:53 AM
  #97
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Setoguchi (Sign him for: 1yr/1.8mil per.)
This one sticks out the most to me. Any team in the league would poach Setoguchi for at least 2,615,625 a year. That would only cost a team a 2nd round pick in compensation. If we low balled Setoguchi that much I think he would sign with another team.

Not that Doug Wilson is known for being cheap.


Realistically I think we'll have to dump both Blake and either Clowe or Nabokov. I love Nabby but he's getting old and the money might be better invested in the future. We have enough goalie prospects and a good enough team in front to risk a goalie change. Alex Stalock is playing well enough to get a shot vs whoever comes out hot in training camp.

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01-05-2010, 03:22 AM
  #98
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i think we are going to see a bit of a dip in salaries because of the economy (just like the mlb). I think we could get marleau for $1 mil less (at most).

but also, if chicago, vancouver and all those other cap smuggling contracts dont get penalized I say sign Patty to 10 years for $50 mil

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01-05-2010, 09:13 AM
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This one sticks out the most to me. Any team in the league would poach Setoguchi for at least 2,615,625 a year. That would only cost a team a 2nd round pick in compensation. If we low balled Setoguchi that much I think he would sign with another team.

Not that Doug Wilson is known for being cheap.


Realistically I think we'll have to dump both Blake and either Clowe or Nabokov. I love Nabby but he's getting old and the money might be better invested in the future. We have enough goalie prospects and a good enough team in front to risk a goalie change. Alex Stalock is playing well enough to get a shot vs whoever comes out hot in training camp.
Even if Seto did sign an offer sheet of that amount, Doug Wilson would just match so it's no big deal in terms of keeping him. However, there could be some animosity for low-balling him. It won't happen though. Wilson tends to overpay on the 2nd contract.

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01-06-2010, 05:51 PM
  #100
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I think it also depends on our success in the playoffs this year. If we do win the Cup, I see Doug getting youngsters into the roster, and you can have something like McGinn - Couture - Mitchell ; McLaren/Ferriero - Nichol - Ortmeyer
If we don't, well, I don't want to think about it, but I see Couture and Ferriero playing in the AHL for another season.
I think if we don't at least make it to the final 4, we could see "more" youngsters up next season. Definately Naby being gone if not signing for much lower dollars. Possibly Pavs if he has another stinker of a playoffs. Yes, all point the fingers at Jumbo, Patty and Naby but, not a whole lot mentioned on how one of the top 2nd lines in the nhl for the previous couple seasons were even worse then the top line in the last couple playoffs for the Sharks, and by far at that.

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