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Old
12-14-2009, 04:28 PM
  #51
RainingRats
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Maybe be not, but there is more than one super prospect as well as the draft lottery.... perhaps they like Fowler since he is a defenceman?

We can't control what Carolina does, but I'd rather collect picks and prospects and finish near the bottom, instead of holding on to these guys only to finish in 10th and get nothing for them.
The Bouw situation is something we should learn from (not sacrificing long term gains for short term potential ones).

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12-14-2009, 04:32 PM
  #52
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If it's true, and if Carolina weren't so far behind, then I'd be all for it.

But then the Panthers would probably lose the lottery pick, and the #2 guy would probably not pan out. That's how this team's luck seems to go. At least Frolik mostly worked out. And Kulikov (so far) - but both were ranked higher then fell because they were Russian and no one wanted to take the chance.
Frolik is a Czech. Fowler is a stud and Seguin has been lights out this season.

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12-14-2009, 04:34 PM
  #53
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The Bouw situation is something we should learn from (not sacrificing long term gains for short term potential ones).
Agreed.

Boston is team that is run very well and always keeps an eye to the future. Losing Kessel hurts them now, but the haul they got for him will make them soon forget. If you take care of the future, the future will take care of the present.

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12-14-2009, 04:41 PM
  #54
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Agreed.

Boston is team that is run very well and always keeps an eye to the future. Losing Kessel hurts them now, but the haul they got for him will make them soon forget. If you take care of the future, the future will take care of the present.
Yes, they're very well run. Vokoun is our Kessel in some ways. Both are very important to their teams but they can both fetch solid returns. Vokoun like Kessel can free up cap space. We need to make some changes to get this team at or near the bottom for the rest of the season.

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12-14-2009, 04:55 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RCGP View Post
Maybe be not, but there is more than one super prospect as well as the draft lottery.... perhaps they like Fowler since he is a defenceman?

We can't control what Carolina does, but I'd rather collect picks and prospects and finish near the bottom, instead of holding on to these guys only to finish in 10th and get nothing for them.
That is what all team that got the second or third pick will hope. But you might need something, but you should ALWAYS draft the best player available (if its not another goalie). You can trade for a D-man or and top6 forward if that is what you want. So I really can't see the Canes have the chance or the toughness to let Hall or Seguin pass them, there's no chance.

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12-14-2009, 05:02 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by RCGP View Post
Agreed.

Boston is team that is run very well and always keeps an eye to the future. Losing Kessel hurts them now, but the haul they got for him will make them soon forget. If you take care of the future, the future will take care of the present.
While I believe an eye for the future is important to be sure to avoid an Atlanta situation in a push to make the playoffs, Boston also hasn't won the Cup in how long? Kessel is a difference maker and Toronto is decidedly better with him and the picks Boston got will not be as good as they were at the start of the season. Further, picks don't always pan out, often times they don't, and Kessel is a top player.

Sure wish we'd gotten the guy, not saying I'm totally down for that package, but we'd be a lot better with him.

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12-14-2009, 05:09 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Could Markstrom Rules or J17 analyze the top pics please.
I kind of agree with your stance. I was all for us finishing bottom 3 after the loss to CBJ, and thought we had a good chance. Then we get 3 out of 4 points against two elite teams, and I say to myself why does this team do this to me? Then I thought about it a little more, and basically I came to the acceptance that like others have said, we can't out-tank Carolina at this point, and even if we did finish 2nd last, we wouldn't get Hall and might even get the #3 pick if Carolina doesn't win the lottery. So basically our best bet would be Seguin because I don't figure we'd be lucky enough to win the lottery. I thought what if we miss this year then don't make the playoffs the following 2 seasons. Horton and Weiss' deals are up one year from that point. If we still haven't made the playoffs by then, then they are both gone as they won't re-sign and we'll have to trade them for picks/prospects. Now, is getting Seguin worth losing both Weiss and Horton? Not IMO.

So now I'm back to rooting for us to make the playoffs. Getting Seguin would be great, but for this team I don't think we can afford that. Seriously, our team is just screwed up and I hate it. If we were any other team, we should tank this season if we aren't in a good spot by the Olympics and go for an elite pick. But because we've missed the playoffs for so long, that isn't an option. And because we've missed the playoffs for so long, it is the new owners' mantra that they want to win badly and win now. They won't tank the season unless we are in a lottery position at the deadline, and I don't think we will be. We just always find away to hang around. Now, if we do end up at the bottom of the conference and draft in the top 3, I'll happily accept that. But I'm rooting to make the playoffs more.

My top 6 right now:

1) Taylor Hall LW/C- Has separated himself from Seguin the last few weeks and is the clear cut #1 at this point. A burner with great hands and good playmaking skills. Franchise potential.

2) Tyler Seguin C/RW- The clear cut #2 IMO. A slick and heady forward with phenominal hands. Can dangle with the best of them and is the best goal scorer in this draft IMO and also a great playmaker. Franchise potential.

3)Cam Fowler D- Plays like Brian Leetch. A marvelous skating defenseman that knows when to join the rush and is solid in his own end. Franchise potential.

4)Kirill Kabanov LW- An extremely skilled typical Russian star with magnificent hands and shot, good speed. Some character issues have arisen, enough to give merit to. His injury might also hurt his stock a bit. Still goes top 5 IMO though. Franchise potential.

5)Brandon Gormley D- Probably the smartest player in this draft. Controls the game when he is on the ice. Good mobility and all around game, excellent in his own zone. Franchise potential.

6) Mikael Granlund C/LW- On pace to shatter the previous standards for the best season in the FEL ever for a 17 year old. That includes Selanne and Koivu. I might put him ahead of Kabanov, but I just think he's going to fall slightly because of his size. But if he falls out of the top 6 it's a crime.

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Old
12-14-2009, 05:20 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post

My top 6 right now:

1) Taylor Hall LW/C- Has separated himself from Seguin the last few weeks and is the clear cut #1 at this point. A burner with great hands and good playmaking skills. Franchise potential.

2) Tyler Seguin C/RW- The clear cut #2 IMO. A slick and heady forward with phenominal hands. Can dangle with the best of them and is the best goal scorer in this draft IMO and also a great playmaker. Franchise potential.

3)Cam Fowler D- Plays like Brian Leetch. A marvelous skating defenseman that knows when to join the rush and is solid in his own end. Franchise potential.

4)Kirill Kabanov LW- An extremely skilled typical Russian star with magnificent hands and shot, good speed. Some character issues have arisen, enough to give merit to. His injury might also hurt his stock a bit. Still goes top 5 IMO though. Franchise potential.

5)Brandon Gormley D- Probably the smartest player in this draft. Controls the game when he is on the ice. Good mobility and all around game, excellent in his own zone. Franchise potential.

6) Mikael Granlund C/LW- On pace to shatter the previous standards for the best season in the FEL ever for a 17 year old. That includes Selanne and Koivu. I might put him ahead of Kabanov, but I just think he's going to fall slightly because of his size. But if he falls out of the top 6 it's a crime.
Thanks, great read. I think Kabanov won't have so many issues here, when we got Kulikov. Two great young russians, that can talk to eachother and will probably be more comfortabel around here.

I hope we draft a young forward gun this season, too much focus on the D those last years. I was so disappointed when we didn't draft Schroeder last year!!!!

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Old
12-14-2009, 05:21 PM
  #59
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I'm all for this team finishing last and getting a top prospect, but I think we'd need to have a bit of an exodus here should we get the top pick...which I don't think we will.

I'm fine, though, with getting into the playoffs or as close as last season and getting a Kulikov-like player again in the draft. Perfectly fine picking middle of the pack if we get a guy like him.

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12-14-2009, 05:24 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
Thanks, great read. I think Kabanov won't have so many issues here, when we got Kulikov. Two great young russians, that can talk to eachother and will probably be more comfortabel around here.

I hope we draft a young forward gun this season, too much focus on the D those last years. I was so disappointed when we didn't draft Schroeder last year!!!!
Kulikov was known as being pretty much sure-fire, so I was perfectly with that pick. Picks don't always work out, but Kulikov has done really well this season, I forget at times that he's a rookie.

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12-14-2009, 05:43 PM
  #61
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RainingRats wrote:

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Seeing how Kessel has turned around Toronto has made me Jealous. They probably wont make the playoffs but things look a lot brighter there.
Very good point, and he--undeniably--has. But what did they give up to get him? Two firsts? Don't forget where they were sitting when they did it too. They could have had three firsts. That's what I would have done as a rebuilding team.

The good thing is that Kessel is young. The bad thing is that there's a reason he was on the Bruins' second line, and didn't play on the PP. But, no bones about it, he's electrifying. I'll give you that.

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12-14-2009, 05:47 PM
  #62
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PB1300 wrote:

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You mentioned all those problems that we have, yet we are still only ONE game from a playoff spot, with 50 GAMES LEFT! A lot can happen in that ti
me.

Just the other day I heard Ron Wilson (coach, Leafs) say that with San Jose they were at the bottom of the entire league one year, with not even a hope and a prayer of making the playoffs, and ended up easily qualifying.

It's true, lots can happen. Let's not forget something either, yes, each team is going to have to deal with injuries, but how many are yet to find themselves in that position?

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12-14-2009, 05:52 PM
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By the way, Raining...good thread!

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12-15-2009, 03:48 AM
  #64
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By the way, Raining...good thread!
By the way Raining...

Have you seen our "not elite" forward who sits currently 21st overall in the League in scoring ?

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12-15-2009, 04:14 AM
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By the way Raining...

Have you seen our "not elite" forward who sits currently 21st overall in the League in scoring ?
He's not elite.

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12-15-2009, 04:29 AM
  #66
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He's not elite... Yet... But Nate will get there !

But you know the guy could be a 40 goal-scorer and 90 points a season player... Panthers fans still wouldn't call him elite... That's how pathetic we've been at respecting our own players during the last decade or so...

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12-15-2009, 04:37 AM
  #67
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He's not elite... Yet... But Nate will get there !

But you know the guy could be a 40 goal-scorer and 90 points a season player... Panthers fans still wouldn't call him elite... That's how pathetic we've been at respecting our own players during the last decade or so...
That's borderline elite for one, and "respecting our own players?" Like guys who do all they can to leave? We've all loved Bouw, Olli, and most have loved Louie. Most loved Bure. But when guys quit and just do everything they can to get out, leaves a bad taste. Not sure how we don't recognize talent, though, that's a little...well, a lot....out there.

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12-15-2009, 05:00 AM
  #68
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That's borderline elite for one, and "respecting our own players?" Like guys who do all they can to leave? We've all loved Bouw, Olli, and most have loved Louie. Most loved Bure. But when guys quit and just do everything they can to get out, leaves a bad taste. Not sure how we don't recognize talent, though, that's a little...well, a lot....out there.
40 goals and 90 points... Borderline elite ? Well I can't do anything more to help Panthers fans... I'll just have to recommand to learn hockey a bit...

Sorry for being cocky, and it is nothing against you particularly Laus... I'm just getting tired of fans always crying... If by elite you mean Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby... Well I'm sorry but we ain't gonna get one soon, because there are only 3 of those in the League... We look the same as 28 other teams in the NHL !

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12-15-2009, 05:16 AM
  #69
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He's not elite... Yet... But Nate will get there !

But you know the guy could be a 40 goal-scorer and 90 points a season player... Panthers fans still wouldn't call him elite... That's how pathetic we've been at respecting our own players during the last decade or so...
He got more points that Rich Peverley. That's gotta count for something?

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12-15-2009, 05:26 AM
  #70
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He got more points that Rich Peverley. That's gotta count for something?
Sure. It counts as much as having more points than Patrick Kane, Daniel Alfredsson, Vincent Lecavalier, Bobby Ryan, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards...

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12-15-2009, 05:48 AM
  #71
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Sure. It counts as much as having more points than Patrick Kane, Daniel Alfredsson, Vincent Lecavalier, Bobby Ryan, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards...
And tied with Iginla and Zetterberg, but their not elite either, cause they got the same points as no-good Nathan Horton

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12-15-2009, 06:11 AM
  #72
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Don't mention Iginla in the same sentence as Horton... Or we gonna have to make a case for Iginla not being on the Olympic team... Or Horton making an argument for a spot...

Edit: Horton is actually the 12th Canadian leading scorer in the NHL... Hum...

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12-15-2009, 06:16 AM
  #73
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We aren't going to finish with a top 3 pick this year. We are too consistent at being inconsistent to finish that low.

Granlund and Tarasenko are the two guys i'd be looking at right now. Both will talent wise go lower than they should, because simply put, they are European. Neither possesses great size either. Granlund will probably go around #6 or #7 and Tarasenko probably just squeaks into the top ten, but then expect to see large fluctuations in where he is projected to go over the coming months. Both IMO are quite safe picks, in that i can't see either really busting. Especially Granlund, i just can't see him failing to become atleast a great 2nd line center in the NHL.

I also still think Kabanov will fall, but i seem to be in the minority here. Brett Conolly is going to fall, and i wouldn't risk a pick on him. His injury scares me too much.

IMO its likely we draft a European forward this year.

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12-15-2009, 06:21 AM
  #74
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Don't mention Iginla in the same sentence as Horton... Or we gonna have to make a case for Iginla not being on the Olympic team... Or Horton making an argument for a spot...

Edit: Horton is actually the 12th Canadian leading scorer in the NHL... Hum...
Hehe, yeah.
But I think Horton should be given at least a chance to make Team Canada, but there are so many great canadiens. Hopefully Messier is paying attention to what Horton have done this season, but I doubt he got a chance tho, because he play for the Panthers.


About the draft. What about McFarland? And isnt Granlund injuried or was that Pulkinen (or what his name was again)?

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12-15-2009, 06:41 AM
  #75
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Hehe, yeah.
But I think Horton should be given at least a chance to make Team Canada, but there are so many great canadiens. Hopefully Messier is paying attention to what Horton have done this season, but I doubt he got a chance tho, because he play for the Panthers.


About the draft. What about McFarland? And isnt Granlund injuried or was that Pulkinen (or what his name was again)?
Pulkinnen has been injured badly... But he is a really amazing talent !

Don't know much about McFarland...

I would love to get Sean Couturier in 2011 !

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