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2010 Philadelphia Phillies - Off-season Thread Part 2: What's up, Doc?

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Old
12-14-2009, 05:37 PM
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IrishSniper87
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2010 Philadelphia Phillies - Off-season Thread Part 2: What's up, Doc?



and here goes nothing ...


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Old
12-14-2009, 05:39 PM
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SolidSnakeUS
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*Gives a carrot*.

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Old
12-14-2009, 05:39 PM
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mm6492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
This has worked in the NBA/NHL, but I haven't really seen huge evidence for it in baseball yet.

And I know Happ is worth more than Blanton, but I mean, why the heck do we have to give up a top-5 pitcher and a No.3 for a top-5 pitcher who's older and pitched a lot more innings?

I don't get it.
We won't give up Lee and Happ

Either
A: Blanton, Happ, Brown/Taylor, ++??
or
B: Lee, Brown/Taylor

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12-14-2009, 05:39 PM
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D'arnaud has been mention with Taylor.

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12-14-2009, 05:41 PM
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I didn't get a chance to watch a lot of last season. Why do so many people think that Happ has peaked already?

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12-14-2009, 05:41 PM
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I see the reasoning for this with the Phillies, and I understand why they're choosing Halladay over Lee, and we don't know the trade negotiations...but...rather be in it to win it. And anyone who takes Lee has aspirations for the World Series.

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12-14-2009, 05:42 PM
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2Claude2Giroux
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I don't think people understand that Cliff Lee wasn't coming back after next year.

Getting Roy Halladay for a lot of years, while giving up Lee, and Michael Taylor, who should be good, is still a great deal for the Phillies.

Seattle could be really good next year as long as their offense shows up.

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12-14-2009, 05:42 PM
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Orange Crush 89
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What the ****!?

That is all.

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12-14-2009, 05:42 PM
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mm6492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I didn't get a chance to watch a lot of last season. Why do so many people think that Happ has peaked already?
His value has peaked. he may get a bit better, but IMO, he does not have big room for improvement. He does not have "dominating" stuff.

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12-14-2009, 05:43 PM
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IrishSniper87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I see the reasoning for this with the Phillies, and I understand why they're choosing Halladay over Lee, and we don't know the trade negotiations...but...rather be in it to win it. And anyone who takes Lee has aspirations for the World Series.
Talk is now that instead of Lee, the Phils could be sending Happ and Blanton to fill Seattle's two empty rotation spots and adding a prospect to send to Toronto to make up for the decreased Mariners package.

Phillies send
Happ
Blanton

Brown/Taylor
some other prospect

Mariners send
prospect or 2

Blue Jays send
Roy Halladay
cash

Mariners receive

Happ
Blanton


Phillies receive
Roy Halladay
cash

Blue Jays receive
Brown/Taylor
some Phillies prospect
Mariners unknown prospects

The other deal is similar, except increase Mariners package, include Cliff Lee from us


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Old
12-14-2009, 05:43 PM
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2Claude2Giroux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I didn't get a chance to watch a lot of last season. Why do so many people think that Happ has peaked already?
His stuff isn't that great. He's a guy who nibbles at the corners.

He's never going to be a #1 or #2. He'd be a #3 on a team with basically no starting pitching depth.

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12-14-2009, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
We won't give up Lee and Happ

Either
A: Blanton, Happ, Brown/Taylor, ++??
or
B: Lee, Brown/Taylor
Yeah, but then my issue is if we don't go win next year, our starters for 11 are Halladay and Hamels with the 3-5 spots open.

Now obviously you hope Drabek fills a slot there, but young pitchers have been known to bust before and even if he does, you have 60 starts at the 4-5 holes that would need to be filled and we'll be pretty much maxed out on salary. Obviously Halladay-Hamels is a great PO tandem, but you gotta make the playoffs before you can win them.

The Phillies have the start of a potential dynasty here, why trade 2-3 more essential parts of that dynasty for a one year shot?

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12-14-2009, 05:44 PM
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2Claude2Giroux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Talk is now that instead of Lee, the Phils could be sending Happ and Blanton to fill Seattle's two empty rotation spots and adding a prospect to send to Toronto to make up for the decreased Mariners package.
Where are you hearing this?

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12-14-2009, 05:44 PM
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On that note the mention of D'arnaud intrigues me. He is currently the Phils most advanced Catcher prospect. BUT Valle has been really good in the mexican winter league.

Quote:
Sebastian Valle – Perhaps the Phillies MVP (relative to age and prospect status) this winter has been Valle. He got off to a hot start for his hometown team and earned significant playing time even though his team features one of Mexico’s best catchers already in Saul Soto. While Mexico is not the top winter league (that would probably be the Dominican), it is a significant challenge for a 19-year-old. Valle is currently hitting .279 with 10 HR and 26 RBI. His average went down and his walks started to increase after his initial power burst in the first 3 weeks of the season. His OPS of .902 is still solid however.
Basically if we send D'arnaud it will be because Valle has improved his stock.

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12-14-2009, 05:44 PM
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if lee is traded its all about economics. lee wants a fair market value contract next year (who could blame him) and halladay said he would take less to pitch here.

a rotation of lee halladay and hamels would make me explode. however it looks like thats all it will be, a wet dream.

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12-14-2009, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I didn't get a chance to watch a lot of last season. Why do so many people think that Happ has peaked already?
No good reason tbh.

I mean, I think he'll end up being a good No.3 starter, sure he doesn't have the incredible offspeed stuff, but locating your fastball takes you a long way in this league, ask Greg Maddux. The main problem is that his fastball is a little flat, he'll need to develop a better change and curve because right now, they're both below-average.

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12-14-2009, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Yeah, but then my issue is if we don't go win next year, our starters for 11 are Halladay and Hamels with the 3-5 spots open.

Now obviously you hope Drabek fills a slot there, but young pitchers have been known to bust before and even if he does, you have 60 starts at the 4-5 holes that would need to be filled and we'll be pretty much maxed out on salary. Obviously Halladay-Hamels is a great PO tandem, but you gotta make the playoffs before you can win them.

The Phillies have the start of a potential dynasty here, why trade 2-3 more essential parts of that dynasty for a one year shot?
Halladay isn't a one year shot. He's getting re-signed.

Why do you think the Phillies got rid of Lee over him? Lee wanted market value. Halladay said he would take less to stay more years.

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12-14-2009, 05:46 PM
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mm6492
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Talk is now that instead of Lee, the Phils could be sending Happ and Blanton to fill Seattle's two empty rotation spots and adding a prospect to send to Toronto to make up for the decreased Mariners package.
Jayson Stark says:
1. It will not get done tonight but will get done
2. It is Cliff Lee in thw deal
3. Halladay cares more about winning then money
4. Phillies will not give up Kyle Drabek in ANY deal

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12-14-2009, 05:46 PM
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I like this trade a lot as long as we don't have to give up Drabek or Brown, because to me one of the reasons we're trading Lee to Seattle (other than because we may not sign him) is to get back some prospects that can be redirected to Toronto so we can keep our big guns, but if we lose Lee and Drabek/Brown that will mean we just traded Knapp, Carrasco, Marson, Donald, and one of our two top guys for about Halladay plus the 15 or so games Lee started for us, thats far far too much in my opinion.

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12-14-2009, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinLin View Post
On that note the mention of D'arnaud intrigues me. He is currently the Phils most advanced Catcher prospect. BUT Valle has been really good in the mexican winter league.



Basically if we send D'arnaud it will be because Valle has improved his stock.
I have heard Valle is not good behind the dish and may need to be moved though. I'd like to keep d'Arnaud but the Jays have been high on him since his draft year so it makes sense he'd be in the deal.

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12-14-2009, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Claude2Giroux View Post
Halladay isn't a one year shot. He's getting re-signed.

Why do you think the Phillies got rid of Lee over him? Lee wanted market value. Halladay said he would take less to stay more years.
The point is that if we dealt Happ and Blanton, we have 2 starters for 2011: Halladay and Hamels. How many games you think we win with 2 MLB starters?

Sure if we'd have a great shot next year, but I'm not in favor of putting all of our resources into a 1 year shot because if we don't deal Lee, he's walking after 2010.

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12-14-2009, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
The point is that if we dealt Happ and Blanton, we have 2 starters for 2011: Halladay and Hamels. How many games you think we win with 2 MLB starters?

Sure if we'd have a great shot next year, but I'm not in favor of putting all of our resources into a 1 year shot because if we don't deal Lee, he's walking after 2010.
If Lee walks, he nets us some TOP draft picks in return.

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12-14-2009, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I have heard Valle is not good behind the dish and may need to be moved though. I'd like to keep d'Arnaud but the Jays have been high on him since his draft year so it makes sense he'd be in the deal.
True, but d'Arnaud lacks a bat...feh. Worst case, Valle becomes a 3B prospect probably.

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12-14-2009, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
The point is that if we dealt Happ and Blanton, we have 2 starters for 2011: Halladay and Hamels. How many games you think we win with 2 MLB starters?

Sure if we'd have a great shot next year, but I'm not in favor of putting all of our resources into a 1 year shot because if we don't deal Lee, he's walking after 2010.
Drabek would probably be ready by 2011. And I am sure we'd find a way to fill holes.

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12-14-2009, 06:00 PM
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Haute Couturier
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True, but d'Arnaud lacks a bat...feh. Worst case, Valle becomes a 3B prospect probably.
I think d'arnaud's bat is a bit underrated. He had a slow start last year when he was splitting time with Valle, but he played well when Valle was sent down to Williamsport. He also showed some power and was ahead of the curve where Marson was at the same age. Valle may be the better hitter though.

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