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Which international team has/will have the most HHOFers?

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11-18-2012, 07:45 PM
  #1
Big Phil
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Which international team has/will have the most HHOFers?

Top level tournaments only apply of course. Start with 1972 and the teams with far less than others won't be mentioned. Just the ones in the running.

1972 Canada 14 - P. Esposito, Cournoyer, Ratelle, F. Mahovlich, Dryden, T. Esposito, Park, Savard, Lapointe, Mikita, Clarke, Dionne, Gilbert, Perreault. Potential inductees could include: P. Mahovlich, Martin, White

1976 Canada 17 - Orr, Hull, Perreault, Clarke, Lafleur, Dionne, Sittler, Shutt, McDonald, Barber, Potvin, Savard, Lapointe, Robinson, Cheevers, Gainey, Esposito. Potential: P. Mahovlich, Vachon, Martin

1984 Canada 12 - Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Anderson, Bossy, Goulet, Gartner, Robinson, Bourque, Stastny, Yzerman, Fuhr. Potential: Middleton, Peeters, Lowe, Tonelli, Wilson

1987 Canada 12- Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Coffey, Bourque, Hawerchuk, Goulet, Gilmour, Anderson, Fuhr, Gartner, Murphy. Potential: Hextall, Propp, C. Lemieux

2002 Canada - 12 Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, Brodeur, Belfour, Nieuwendyk, Pronger, Niedermayer, Blake, MacInnis, Iginla, Shanahan. Potential: Lindros, Fleury, Joseph, Peca, Kariya

2010 Canada - 6 Crosby, Thornton, Iginla, Niedermayer, Pronger, Brodeur. Potential: Fleury, Luongo, Keith, Boyle, Weber, Doughty, Staal, Toews, Richards, Getzlaf, Perry, Richards, Heatley.

Alright, I tried to get a non Canadian team on here and the best we had was the US team in 1996 which was still far off. I was trying to use only the teams that could match the #1 team (so far) with current and potential HHOFers. That way there is at least a "chance" that some team can hit 17 like the 1976 team.

Team Canada 1976 has 17 inductees in there. Many of us think Vachon should be in there including myself. I personally think Peter Mahovlich should get a longer look than he does (not saying he should be in there). 1987 falls short and it would take a lot of borderline candidates for the 1984 team to tie 17.

That leaves 2002 and 2010 which are two teams with players still not eligible. I lumped Iginla and Shanahan in the pile of inductees based purely on assumption, so I think it's safe. 2002 could easily have 16 overall HHOFers if Lindros, Kariya, Fleury and Joseph get in there. Peca is a little dicey, but theoretically 16 isn't all that far off even if I have my reservations on some of them.

2010 is the team that could have up to 19 HHOFers in my opinion. Hence the word "could". This is purely speculative folks and I can't stress that enough. No doubt there are lots of things each of those "potential" players needs to do. Some of them are on the right path though and I can easily see them in there:

Weber - Two first team all-stars, probably the best defenseman in the NHL
Doughty - Young, a Norris finalist and a Cup winner with a Smythe caliber run
Keith - A Norris, and a Cup with a Smythe-like run. Could be another Carlyle though
Boyle - Getting old and two lockouts have done nothing but hurt him. Longshot.
Staal - A Cup, a Smythe type run and a 100 point season. Needs to get there again.
Toews - A Cup, a Conn Smythe and an Olympic MVP. Will constantly be a Selke threat
Perry - A Hart winner and a Richard winner. Needs more of that though.

Anyway, discuss. Is 1976 same for a long time, even in our lifetime or can it be touched?


Last edited by Big Phil: 11-18-2012 at 10:45 PM.
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11-18-2012, 08:14 PM
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Hardyvan123
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I think 76 will be hard to match but seriously I can see current guys having better careers than Shutt, Barber and Cheevers and not making the HHOF too.

Ditto with Savard, Lapointe and Gainey, alot of their HHOF entry lies on the fortune of playing on a dynasty teams.

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11-18-2012, 08:23 PM
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Hanji
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Why are losing teams not included? 1981 Canada had 12 HOFers, 1998 could potentially have 14.
Team NHL in the 1979 Challenge Cup had 19 HOFers, 2 more than the 1976 team.

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11-18-2012, 10:55 PM
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Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I think 76 will be hard to match but seriously I can see current guys having better careers than Shutt, Barber and Cheevers and not making the HHOF too.

Ditto with Savard, Lapointe and Gainey, alot of their HHOF entry lies on the fortune of playing on a dynasty teams.
To be fair, Savard, Lapointe and Gainey were main cogs in that dynasty. Take those three away and the Habs don't win 4 in a row. Throw in the Norris track record of the two d-men and the Selkes with Gainey and you've still got HHOFers.

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Why are losing teams not included? 1981 Canada had 12 HOFers, 1998 could potentially have 14.
Team NHL in the 1979 Challenge Cup had 19 HOFers, 2 more than the 1976 team.
I thought of 1998. Gretzky, Yzerman, Sakic, Nieuwendyk, Shanahan, Roy, Brodeur, Stevens, MacInnis, Pronger, Blake, Bourque. That's 12 locks right there. Add in potentials like Fleury, Lindros, Kariya and Joseph and you've still got only 16. BrindAmour is 17 if you want to count him. Somehow I can't see all 5 of those guys inducted.

1981 has Gretzky, Bossy, Trottier, Dionne, Perreault, Lafleur, Gillies, Gainey, Robinson, Potvin, Bourque, Smith. That's 12. The only "maybes" on that team are Liut and Middleton which leaves them well short.

You are right about the 1979 Challenge Cup. Technically there are 20 HHOFers on that team if you'd like to count them.

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11-19-2012, 01:19 AM
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Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
To be fair, Savard, Lapointe and Gainey were main cogs in that dynasty.
They were very important but those Montreal teams were just destroyers in their totality as well

Quote:
Take those three away and the Habs don't win 4 in a row.
Take away all 3 then yes they don't win 4 but they maybe win a couple still, take away just one and replace them with a league average player those Hab teams probably still win 4 Stanley Cups.

Quote:
Throw in the Norris track record of the two d-men and the Selkes with Gainey and you've still got HHOFers.
When the next strictly defensive forward gets into the HHOF then I'll agree on Gainey but I won't be holding my breath on that one.

As for their Norris voting records, there are probably guys with better voting records that aren't in the hall but I'd ahve to look into that.

Those 3 were more of an afterthought, I'll stand on Barber, Shutt and Cheevers in that we are going to see guys not getting into the Hall with better overall careers IMO.

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11-19-2012, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
They were very important but those Montreal teams were just destroyers in their totality as well

Take away all 3 then yes they don't win 4 but they maybe win a couple still, take away just one and replace them with a league average player those Hab teams probably still win 4 Stanley Cups.

When the next strictly defensive forward gets into the HHOF then I'll agree on Gainey but I won't be holding my breath on that one.

As for their Norris voting records, there are probably guys with better voting records that aren't in the hall but I'd ahve to look into that.

Those 3 were more of an afterthought, I'll stand on Barber, Shutt and Cheevers in that we are going to see guys not getting into the Hall with better overall careers IMO.
I'll agree with you on Barber, Shutt and Cheevers. They all had marginal HHOF careers and personally I don't see much seperation at all between Pete Mahovlich and those two forwards.

But Savard, Lapointe and Gainey were great individual players in their own right. Savard and Gainey won a Conn Smythe. Gainey won 4 Selkes and the award was sped up because of him. Savard was the prototypical error-free defenseman that knew when to join the rush at the precise time. As for Lapointe, I suspect that even without a Cup he is a HHOFer based on his Norris track record which is impressive. I really think you are underrating these three players.

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11-19-2012, 08:37 PM
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man, reading all those names reminds me why i love international hockey, and also why i wish the NHL would get rid of 4 teams or so.

i also had to do a double take...Stastny actually played for Canada in 84? he defected only 4 years earlier, Canada moves quick with their citizenship.

that 76 team is going to be tough to beat in this category. especially because i one day do see Vachon getting in. he is long over due IMO

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11-19-2012, 10:58 PM
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I can't see the 1976 team being passed. Canada is still the only country producing enough talent to have a chance, and with competition from European and American skaters they aren't going to stand out enough to get into the HHOF in such great numbers.

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11-20-2012, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack mullet View Post
man, reading all those names reminds me why i love international hockey, and also why i wish the NHL would get rid of 4 teams or so.

i also had to do a double take...Stastny actually played for Canada in 84? he defected only 4 years earlier, Canada moves quick with their citizenship.

that 76 team is going to be tough to beat in this category. especially because i one day do see Vachon getting in. he is long over due IMO
Yes, but as CC is not under IIHF he could play for Canada without any consequences for later playing for Slovakia.

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11-20-2012, 07:40 AM
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Yes, but as CC is not under IIHF he could play for Canada without any consequences for later playing for Slovakia.
oddly enough, Stastny played for Czechoslovakia in the 76 Canada cup, Canada in the 84 Canada cup, and Slovakia in the 94 Olympics. all over the map there Peter.

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11-20-2012, 08:16 AM
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oddly enough, Stastny played for Czechoslovakia in the 76 Canada cup, Canada in the 84 Canada cup, and Slovakia in the 94 Olympics. all over the map there Peter.
Not "all over the map". You understand that Slovakia was part of Czechoslovakia before the latter dissolved in 1993, right? Why would it be odd for him to play for his home country? Not more odd than Artūrs Irbe playing for the Soviet Union and then later on for Latvia. The Team Canada appearance is the only oddity in the case of Peter Šťastný.

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11-20-2012, 04:55 PM
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What is the most HOF ever for a non-Canadian team?

USA 1998 Olympic team has 5 for sure, with possibly up to 8:
Chelios, Leetch, Hull, Modano, Lafontaine
(?) Richter, Leclair, Vanbiesbrouck

The only time all 4 USSR Hall of Famers played together was in a pair of USSR-Finland games in 1981, according to Chidlovski. (Obviously if the HHOF was actually serious about honouring Europeans, the Soviet teams of 1980-1981 would have had 8-10 Hall of Famers).

Sweden's gold medal winners in 2006 had at least 4, and possibly up to 8:
Forsberg, Sundin, Alfredsson, Lidstrom
(?) Sedin, Sedin, Lundqvist, Zetterberg

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11-20-2012, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
Not "all over the map". You understand that Slovakia was part of Czechoslovakia before the latter dissolved in 1993, right? Why would it be odd for him to play for his home country? Not more odd than Artūrs Irbe playing for the Soviet Union and then later on for Latvia. The Team Canada appearance is the only oddity in the case of Peter Šťastný.
you understand what sarcasm is, right?

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11-21-2012, 03:45 AM
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Theokritos
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you understand what sarcasm is, right?
Yes, I just don't always detect it within written words, my bad.

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11-21-2012, 07:39 AM
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Yes, I just don't always detect it within written words, my bad.
To be fair, I didn't detect it either...

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11-21-2012, 04:27 PM
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Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
What is the most HOF ever for a non-Canadian team?

USA 1998 Olympic team has 5 for sure, with possibly up to 8:
Chelios, Leetch, Hull, Modano, Lafontaine
(?) Richter, Leclair, Vanbiesbrouck

The only time all 4 USSR Hall of Famers played together was in a pair of USSR-Finland games in 1981, according to Chidlovski. (Obviously if the HHOF was actually serious about honouring Europeans, the Soviet teams of 1980-1981 would have had 8-10 Hall of Famers).

Sweden's gold medal winners in 2006 had at least 4, and possibly up to 8:
Forsberg, Sundin, Alfredsson, Lidstrom
(?) Sedin, Sedin, Lundqvist, Zetterberg
For USA in 1998 you could add Roenick.

Also, USA in 2002 does pretty well
Modano, Chelios, Hull, Leetch, for sure (unless there are Modano doubters)
Up in the air are Richter, Roenick, Suter, Housley, Leclair

Those are at best marginal picks and I would venture that at least three of those picks for sure don't get in........but still.

I don't think Alfredsson is a shoo-in by any means. He has enough warts on his resume to hold off on him. He isn't Sundin by any means and he lost one prime year in 2004 because of the lockout. If he never plays again I lean on the side of keeping him out.

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