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Old
12-15-2009, 09:07 PM
  #1
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Blue Jays vs. Oilers

The Toronto Blue Jays and Edmonton Oilers have a lot in common. Both have wallowed in mediocrity since the early 90s, save for a single blip by the Oilers following a set of rule changes comparable to the ones that the MLB underwent in 1969. We've also been to the playoffs at least a couple times since our last championship, but anyone who follows both sports knows that Toronto has been the Yzerman to New York and Boston's Gretzky and Lemieux.

Either way, the results are the same: no championships.

Toronto has decided that enough is enough. The Jays acquired three high-end prospects for the one guy that's consistently held his head above the waterline and in fact delivered what many believe are MVP-caliber performances masked by the strongest division in baseball.

We could argue comparable players all day; Hemsky's a match when it comes to starpower and tenure, Visnovsky in importance to actually winning games. The long and short of it is this: unlike their sister team in the NHL, the Jays have decided to take the bumpy road rather than the scenic route. I'm actually looking forward to watching Snider, Wallace, Romero, Lind and Drabek progress.

Khabibulan's injury has given this team the green light to make a similar trade and not feel all that bad about it- a luxury the Jays didn't have in making their decision. Instead they've done an honest appraisal of their team and their system and decided to drop the illusion that only one or two players separate them from being an impact team. Will the Oilers do the same? If Canada's only MLB team can afford to do it, why can't we?


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12-15-2009, 09:17 PM
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goody. Another tank thread.

No way you can:

A> Compare the Oilers and Jays situation. The fact that 2 teams at MOST can make it out of their division and they have absolute powerhouses in NYY and BOS that can spend to their hearts content AND have the added value of players WANTING to be in that city. Absolute apples and oranges.

B> Are you for real comparing Hemsky with Halliday? Visnovsky? Both very good players but Halliday is probably top 3 if not the best starting pitcher in baseball the past at least 5 years.

A hockey team can squeak into the playoffs, pick up a piece or 2 at the deadline and win the cup. The Oilers almost did just that in 06. Same cannot be said for baseball.

The ONLY hope the Jays have is to add some more picks to their growning stable of prospects and hope for a perfect storm in terms of development.

The Oilers WILL NOT tank, nor should they. When Comrie and Pouliot comes back, hopefully they can make a trade to pick up a couple of pieces and push for the playoffs. That is the best course of action. The Oilers already have some pretty nice pieces coming down the pipe.

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12-15-2009, 09:19 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
The Toronto Blue Jays and Edmonton Oilers have a lot in common. Both have wallowed in mediocrity since the early 90s, save for a single blip by the Oilers following a set of rule changes comparable to the ones that the MLB underwent in 1969. We've also been to the playoffs at least a couple times since our last championship, but anyone who follows both sports knows that Toronto has been the Yzerman to New York and Boston's Gretzky and Lemieux.

Either way, the results are the same: no championships.

Toronto has decided that enough is enough. The Jays acquired three high-end prospects for the one guy that's consistently held his head above the waterline and in fact delivered what many believe are MVP-caliber performances masked by the strongest division in baseball.

We could name comparable players all day; Hemsky's a match when it comes to starpower and tenure, Visnovsky in importance to actually winning games. The long and short of it is this: unlike their sister team in the NHL, the Jays have decided to take the bumpy road rather than the scenic route. I'm actually looking forward to watching Snider, Wallace, Romero, Lind and Drabek progress.

Khabibulan's injury has given this team the green light to make a similar trade and not feel all that bad about it- a luxury the Jays didn't have in making their decision. Instead they've done an honest appraisal of their team and their system and decided to drop the illusion that only one or two players separate them from being an impact team. Will the Oilers do the same? If Canada's only MLB team can afford to do it, why can't we?
Interesting as these are my two fav teams. To compare baseball the hockey is apples and oranges first off and the salery cap changes everything.

I have often thought they have so much in common in the simple fact of injuries. I have often wondred if it is me, the jays and oil are the only two teams I really watch and both have had crazy injuries. I mean the streak of injuries the jays have had is just stupid. Not even old injury phrone players, young pitchers. It is just dumb.

Any way, for the Record no one on the Oilers compares to Doc. If Doc was a hockey player he would be Joe Thornton. THe jays have actually had some very good teams the last decade, if in any other div in baseball the jays make the playoffs 2-3 times in the last decade and who knows with someluck win a WC.

Any way, I don't really agree with the logic of your post. The oilers don't have a player comparable to Doc or one that will be a UFA after this year. The jays would have kept Doc if he was locked up, just as the oilers should keep, vis, Souray, hemmer ect.

I do agree the oilers don't have much of a chance this year with Hemmer on the self but the players they can and should trade are few as they don't have that Superstar that will be gone after the year.

Differnt situation.

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12-15-2009, 09:20 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
goody. Another tank thread.

No way you can:

A> Compare the Oilers and Jays situation. The fact that 2 teams at MOST can make it out of their division and they have absolute powerhouses in NYY and BOS that can spend to their hearts content AND have the added value of players WANTING to be in that city. Absolute apples and oranges.

B> Are you for real comparing Hemsky with Halliday? Visnovsky? Both very good players but Halliday is probably top 3 if not the best starting pitcher in baseball the past at least 5 years.

A hockey team can squeak into the playoffs, pick up a piece or 2 at the deadline and win the cup. The Oilers almost did just that in 06. Same cannot be said for baseball.

The ONLY hope the Jays have is to add some more picks to their growning stable of prospects and hope for a perfect storm in terms of development.

The Oilers WILL NOT tank, nor should they. When Comrie and Pouliot comes back, hopefully they can make a trade to pick up a couple of pieces and push for the playoffs. That is the best course of action. The Oilers already have some pretty nice pieces coming down the pipe.
beat me to it. Agreed

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12-15-2009, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Interesting as these are my two fav teams. To compare baseball the hockey is apples and oranges first off and the salery cap changes everything.

I have often thought they have so much in common in the simple fact of injuries. I have often wondred if it is me, the jays and oil are the only two teams I really watch and both have had crazy injuries. I mean the streak of injuries the jays have had is just stupid. Not even old injury phrone players, young pitchers. It is just dumb.

Any way, for the Record no one on the Oilers compares to Doc. If Doc was a hockey player he would be Joe Thornton. THe jays have actually had some very good teams the last decade, if in any other div in baseball the jays make the playoffs 2-3 times in the last decade and who knows with someluck win a WC.

Any way, I don't really agree with the logic of your post. The oilers don't have a player comparable to Doc or one that will be a UFA after this year. The jays would have kept Doc if he was locked up, just as the oilers should keep, vis, Souray, hemmer ect.

I do agree the oilers don't have much of a chance this year with Hemmer on the self but the players they can and should trade are few as they don't have that Superstar that will be gone after the year.

Differnt situation.
I am also a big Jays fan and those are the only 2 teams I really love and watch. It has just seemed like the last 5 seasons (Oil and Jays combined) have been an utter nightmare injury wise. Every time the sport switches over I have great hope and then the injuries start.

I kinda wish the Jays would deal Wells while they are at it. He just isn't clutch, and I think they could get a good return for him.

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12-15-2009, 09:30 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
I am also a big Jays fan and those are the only 2 teams I really love and watch. It has just seemed like the last 5 seasons (Oil and Jays combined) have been an utter nightmare injury wise. Every time the sport switches over I have great hope and then the injuries start.

I kinda wish the Jays would deal Wells while they are at it. He just isn't clutch, and I think they could get a good return for him.
Ya, in a way the jays are even worse then the oilers for injuries, the oilers that get hurt are at least older and some what proven, having Marcum, Litch, Mcgowen going down is like Gagner having his career suddenly in jeapardy. It is just sick the injuries they have had.

Wells is another, I actually feel Wells would have been a all star if he hadn't suffred so many injuries.

However I agree, he needs to go. He is a dud at the moment. However no one will take him. It was a realistic idea that the jays shouuld just trade doc for nothing as long as a team takes Wells. I am not certian that wouldn't have been a good idea. His contract is a eye sore.

For the record I am now a Philly fan and jays fan lol, with baseball you can really cheer for two teams since the NL doesn't play the AL. so for me it is hope the phills win in the next 3-4 years and meanwhile hope the jays get back on board.

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12-15-2009, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
I am also a big Jays fan and those are the only 2 teams I really love and watch. It has just seemed like the last 5 seasons (Oil and Jays combined) have been an utter nightmare injury wise. Every time the sport switches over I have great hope and then the injuries start.

I kinda wish the Jays would deal Wells while they are at it. He just isn't clutch, and I think they could get a good return for him.
Finding a taker for Wells would be unbelievably tough, he's there Horcoff. I think all they can do is surround him with good players and try to blend him in.

They were lucky to have a taker in Rios. Very lucky.

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12-15-2009, 10:24 PM
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The Jays got two high end prospects and one decent prospect...

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12-15-2009, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by booyah83 View Post
Finding a taker for Wells would be unbelievably tough, he's there Horcoff. I think all they can do is surround him with good players and try to blend him in.

They were lucky to have a taker in Rios. Very lucky.
Well's is worse then horc's. Horc is among the some wha thigher paid C. Horc is paid to be a very good 2nd line C, 5.5 mill is still no where near the top of the league in contracts. Wells is one of the highest paid players in the game, he is paid to be an all star.

Wells contract is horrid. horc's is just bad.

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12-15-2009, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Agent007 View Post
The Jays got two high end prospects and one decent prospect...
none of them are top notch. Taylor will be a good OF, Drabek a 2-3 Starter.

You never know, one could be a star, but in all honesty there isn't that much there in terms of prospects. It isn't like We got Hanley Ramirez like the Marlins got for Beckett

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12-15-2009, 10:34 PM
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The Blue Jays didn't say enough was enough.

Halladay did.


Last edited by Senor Catface: 12-15-2009 at 10:57 PM.
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12-15-2009, 10:55 PM
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The Blue Jays didn't say enough was enough.

Halliday did.
Matt Halliday?

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12-15-2009, 10:56 PM
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Matt Halliday?
Spelling for the win.

Me good at lifez.

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12-15-2009, 11:04 PM
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don't they play different sports?

the BJ's are stuck in a division with the BOSOX and Yanks - what can you expect really?

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12-15-2009, 11:05 PM
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The Blue Jays didn't say enough was enough.

Halladay did.
Yup.

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12-15-2009, 11:48 PM
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Interesting as these are my two fav teams. To compare baseball the hockey is apples and oranges first off and the salery cap changes everything.
This. Very difficult to compare the structuring of teams between the two leagues because of the salary cap. You don't see elite, big ticket players dealt for just prospects in the NHL in this day and age. That's the reason why superstars change teams all the time in the MLB but pretty much only during unrestricted free agency in hockey. I don't see the comparison at all really. Also, the Jays don't have a chance of doing any damage unless all the stars align in one season and they have a bunch of breakthrough seasons and hope one of the Sox/Yankees have an off year just like the Rays did a couple years ago.

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12-16-2009, 12:18 AM
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I've been on the side of a true rebuild since the Smyth trade, but I don't think the casual fan base could support it anymore. The elation of the cup run is subsiding and frustration is setting in. A new arena will probably peak interest but they need a play-off team to sustain it.

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12-16-2009, 12:18 AM
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Also, the Jays don't have a chance of doing any damage unless all the stars align in one season and they have a bunch of breakthrough seasons and hope one of the Sox/Yankees have an off year just like the Rays did a couple years ago.
The Jays could spend a ton of money if they decided to. They won't, rather than can't.

The NHL v MLB comparison in terms of system is so incredibly invalid due to a great many things.

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12-16-2009, 11:07 AM
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Matt Halliday?
This is priceless.
Who the heck is Matt Halliday?


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12-16-2009, 03:16 PM
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The Jays could spend a ton of money if they decided to. They won't, rather than can't.

The NHL v MLB comparison in terms of system is so incredibly invalid due to a great many things.
Last year the Jays payroll was 80 mill compared to Boston at 121 and the Yankees at 201. That's a massive difference like you said. I'm not too polished on the finances of sports and have always wondered why the Jays don't really spend much coin like you said. I really thought the year they had a chance was last season if they had of kept Burnett around and got a few breakout years like they did with guys like Lind and Hill. Of course Wells and Rios weren't expected to be that bad so it kind of cancels out but those two starters were pretty much as good a 1-2 as you'd see in the MLB.

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12-16-2009, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Oylerz View Post
This is priceless.
Who the heck is Matt Halliday?

See that's what made it not priceless to me. Yes it was funny that he pointed out his spelling error. But the fact that I had no clue who Matt Halliday was made that part of it irrelvant.

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12-16-2009, 06:40 PM
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Toronto does not have the financial ability to compete with their power house division, coupled with barely any playoff spots. It doesn't matter what prospects they have.

Meanwhile, the Northwest division sucks. And you don't even have to win it to get in.

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12-16-2009, 07:11 PM
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Vernon Wells = Shawn Horcoff.

Cannot be moved.

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12-16-2009, 07:14 PM
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Vernon Wells = Shawn Horcoff.

Cannot be moved.
The Gomez trade almost on its own debunks the theory of the "untradeable" contract.

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12-16-2009, 07:21 PM
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The Gomez trade almost on its own debunks the theory of the "untradeable" contract.
Gomez trumps Horcoff. Gomez would flourish in Edmonton. I have always thought that. But...no more little forwards so forget I said that.

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