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Reality check

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:15 PM
  #1
alexstream
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Reality check

we're 2 points away from 2nd to last place in the league.

There is Carolina on its own in last at 20 pts, then there is a flock at 31pts, including TO which is on quite a hot streak and Philly which surely won't stay in a slump for so long, then there is the Habs at 33. i.e. we could wake up next sunday/monday morning, open the newspapers and see the habs in 29th position.
I have mitigated thoughts towards that. I'm split between two opposite directions.

1. We are not playing bad. Carey price is hot. Our PK is hot. Our 1st line is kickass. We miss Gio and Markov badly, but they should both be back within 2-3 weeks. i.e. If everything goes well, we could compete and have a nice run.

however :

2. For the first time in a long long while, we are close to the bottom of the league while still displaying a somewhat nice show on the ice (I've been to 10 games this season so far and enjoyed most of it). Why don't we just "tank" for once and draft that superstar center we've been waiting for since Jean Beliveau retired.

(side note on that option though... it'd be a mess, cause BG would surely resign. If he does, who replaces him? I don't know anyone I'd rather see there... And what if his replacement turns berserk and wants to give his own identity to the team? or has a different philosophy? another rebuild?? I'm glad with the actual plan and thinks it will work on the mid/long term... I want us to stick to it. The team is speedy (except Gill) and playing with heart)

http://tsn.ca/nhl/standings/

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:19 PM
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Poulet Kostopoulos
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Funny that the title says "Reality check" but the whole point of your post is suggesting the Habs to tank.

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:20 PM
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Its gonna be hard to see the leafs in front the habs in tomorrows paper

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:21 PM
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Habs 4 Life
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Problem is that it's still way too early in the season right now,50 games left and anything can happen but the fact of the matter is we made it this far without Markov all year and Gio for a good month now I just don't see us being this bad for 50 games now that they are coming back.I would love to see the Habs draft that superstar but once again I just don't see us being at the bottom of the league come April unless we lose like every single game for the rest of the month to teams like the Isles and Wild.

Season is still young but yes I would prefer the Habs finish 29th then us missing the playoffs 9th in the East,but it's still way too early

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:22 PM
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Hackett
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This is not much different than last season. The habs were around 4th place at this time last year, but the the logjam beneath them was quite similar. This is something that nhl fans have to get used to with the current point system

Speaking of point systems, I'd love to have this structure.

3pts for Reg win
2pts for OT win
1 pt for Shootout win
0 pts for any loss

This way, you reward the team that wins by playing real hockey the most and the win by gimmick is rewarded the least.

I'm dreaming though, the nhl loves the tight standings even though they are kinda manipulating their fans in a way.

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:22 PM
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CrAzYNiNe
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Enough with tank post.

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:28 PM
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Paul Dipietro
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I don't think it's even physically possible to tank in Montreal. Heads will roll at all levels until we string a few wins together so we can start deluding ourselves all over again...

And even if by some freak accident we manage to properly tank and "win" a top-5 pick, we'll end up drafting the next Patrik Stefan

But like our beloved Senator Jacques Demers always says "Il faut rester positif [coughs hysterically]"

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:31 PM
  #8
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Wow... never thought we would be so close to Taylor

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:31 PM
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Here's another version of a reality check for the Habs.

Here we are coming up on Christmas, endured numerous injuries including our top defenceman who is still out, and so many injuries on D we had to sign another UFA AND pick up a player on waivers. No Gionta for weeks, underachieving Kostitsyns and Gomez.

AND YET, WE SIT IN THE EIGHTH SPOT IN THE CONFERENCE!!!!

The defence is getting healthier, Markov is about to return, Andrei is waking up, Pleks is continuing his torrid pace, Cammalleri continues to thrill, Gionta is right around the corner.

WOW! LOOKING FORWARD TO HOW THE HABS LOOK WITH A FULL LINEUP AND PLAYERS LIVING UP TO THEIR POTENTIAL!!!


This is indeed, a reality check.

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:37 PM
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OneSharpMarble
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Isn't the draft quite weak this year? Not to mention the fact this team has poor 1st round selections tanking will not guarantee us anything.

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:40 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Here's another version of a reality check for the Habs.

Here we are coming up on Christmas, endured numerous injuries including our top defenceman who is still out, and so many injuries on D we had to sign another UFA AND pick up a player on waivers. No Gionta for weeks, underachieving Kostitsyns and Gomez.

AND YET, WE SIT IN THE EIGHTH SPOT IN THE CONFERENCE!!!!

The defence is getting healthier, Markov is about to return, Andrei is waking up, Pleks is continuing his torrid pace, Cammalleri continues to thrill, Gionta is right around the corner.

WOW! LOOKING FORWARD TO HOW THE HABS LOOK WITH A FULL LINEUP AND PLAYERS LIVING UP TO THEIR POTENTIAL!!!


This is indeed, a reality check.

Amen brother!

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:47 PM
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Kebekoi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
This is not much different than last season. The habs were around 4th place at this time last year, but the the logjam beneath them was quite similar. This is something that nhl fans have to get used to with the current point system

Speaking of point systems, I'd love to have this structure.

3pts for Reg win
2pts for OT win
1 pt for Shootout win
0 pts for any loss

This way, you reward the team that wins by playing real hockey the most and the win by gimmick is rewarded the least.

I'm dreaming though, the nhl loves the tight standings even though they are kinda manipulating their fans in a way.
All games should be worth the same. I suggest : OT 10min 5-on-5 (still the same game, goal end game), then shootout to seal the win and get the extra point after the tie (gimmick).

3W-0L-2SOW-1SOL

Discuss; My points plan : Your evaluation

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:47 PM
  #13
alexstream
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Originally Posted by dysonlu View Post
Funny that the title says "Reality check" but the whole point of your post is suggesting the Habs to tank.
the reality check is that we're 2 points out of 2nd to last place!!!

Therefore we are in a position where maybe we should take a decision whether to tank or not.

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:48 PM
  #14
alexstream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Here's another version of a reality check for the Habs.

Here we are coming up on Christmas, endured numerous injuries including our top defenceman who is still out, and so many injuries on D we had to sign another UFA AND pick up a player on waivers. No Gionta for weeks, underachieving Kostitsyns and Gomez.

AND YET, WE SIT IN THE EIGHTH SPOT IN THE CONFERENCE!!!!

The defence is getting healthier, Markov is about to return, Andrei is waking up, Pleks is continuing his torrid pace, Cammalleri continues to thrill, Gionta is right around the corner.

WOW! LOOKING FORWARD TO HOW THE HABS LOOK WITH A FULL LINEUP AND PLAYERS LIVING UP TO THEIR POTENTIAL!!!


This is indeed, a reality check.
yup, that was point 1, in the OP.

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:50 PM
  #15
Quarantesix
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Markov Gionta out, no tank, me put puck in net ,no tank - Andrei Kostitsyn

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:55 PM
  #16
RE-HABS
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There are like 12 teams only 4 points or less from that as well...that's half the league almost, someone is over reacting.

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Old
12-16-2009, 03:04 PM
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Darth Joker
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If we had this record, with a completely or almost completely healthy team... then I honestly wouldn't have a problem with us going into a full-fledge rebuilding/selling mode.

But... before the organization even thinks about that, this team should at least get to prove what it can do with a fully healthy team; or at least a fully healthy core (i.e. Gionta and Markov back).

If getting Gionta and Markov back doesn't improve us, and our place in the standings (not necessarily higher than 8th, but at least more securely in the playoffs compared to the teams behind us), in January... then maybe this should be a selling trading deadline for us, yeah. But I really have to think that getting back one of the league's best 2nd liners (a solid 1st liner some nights) and one of the league's best defenseman and our best player, will help us a lot.


Oh, and on Philly and Toronto... a lot of people are assuming that Philly is going to snap out of it. I'm not so sure about that. There's something very wrong in the dressing room of that team, and if their management doesn't address it soon (probably with a trade if what's been said about Hartnell's wife and Carter is correct - if it's true, one or the other probably needs to be traded to bring that team back together), then they might not rebound soon enough to make the playoffs.

And as for Toronto... I just have a very hard time imagining that team keeping up their current goal scoring pace with the players that they have. Right now, a lot of their players are on pace for huge career years, and I have to wonder if that's sustainable over a full season. If it is, Ron Wilson is a better coach than he gets credit for. But... I don't think Toronto is going to keep it up.

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Old
12-16-2009, 03:05 PM
  #18
shealy04
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
Markov Gionta out, no tank, me put puck in net ,no tank - Andrei Kostitsyn
Luv's it!!!!

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Old
12-16-2009, 03:13 PM
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shutehinside
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we're also holding on to 8th and a playoff spot which means the 6 teams behind us are in the same position. Do you think they want to tank too??

What a stupid ****ing thread!

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Old
12-16-2009, 03:14 PM
  #20
Blind Gardien
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Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
the reality check is that we're 2 points out of 2nd to last place!!!

Therefore we are in a position where maybe we should take a decision whether to tank or not.
We aren't in that position at all. I don't think the decision would EVER be made. But as much as 2 pts out of 29th is an indication of mediocrity, it's also an indication of parity in the league when one considers that 2 pts out of 29th was also 8th in the Eastern Conference. The team is smack dab (for mcphee) in the middle of the playoff battle with tons of games left to play. What team gives up and folds in that situation? No NHL GM ever would. Fans are fickle and are free to hope for whatever they want, but the real reality is that the Habs are nowhere close to making such a decision. And won't be this season. Even if they do ultimately finish 29th, it won't be because they made a decision to be.

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Old
12-16-2009, 03:25 PM
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The bottom of the Eastern conference is awful this year. Seriously, Montreal is on pace for 80 points (minus change!) and right now that would put them in the playoffs. 80 points!

The teams from #8 to #15 in the league are all very bad teams. Yes, I'm including Montreal in the package. If any of those teams goes on ANY kind of decent run, Montreal when Markov comes back, Philly when they come to their senses, anyone, they have a good chance of running away with 8th. They'd be the worst 8th seed in recent memory, but it's not a pipe dream to think that the Habs might make it.

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Old
12-16-2009, 03:50 PM
  #22
alexstream
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
we're also holding on to 8th and a playoff spot which means the 6 teams behind us are in the same position. Do you think they want to tank too??

What a stupid ****ing thread!
thanks, I return the compliment to your post

fact is, usually, we start strong and have a slump to finish eighth.
right now, we are eighth, but, but we are also 2 pts away from 29th. and for everyone who've blame former teams not to tank when the opportunity was there, well... here might be the opportunity. You blame it on "adapatation and injuries" and you draft Hall or Seguin.
Bruins did it some years ago.
I don't think it's that stupid. I'm not sure I support the idea myself, but get a hold of your emotions man.

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Old
12-16-2009, 03:53 PM
  #23
alexstream
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
We aren't in that position at all. I don't think the decision would EVER be made. But as much as 2 pts out of 29th is an indication of mediocrity, it's also an indication of parity in the league when one considers that 2 pts out of 29th was also 8th in the Eastern Conference. The team is smack dab (for mcphee) in the middle of the playoff battle with tons of games left to play. What team gives up and folds in that situation? No NHL GM ever would. Fans are fickle and are free to hope for whatever they want, but the real reality is that the Habs are nowhere close to making such a decision. And won't be this season. Even if they do ultimately finish 29th, it won't be because they made a decision to be.
I think teams like Montreal have a duty to never tank. Sucks for the drafts, but that's why the team is so deeply loved. No matter who's on the ice, there is some kind of duty to try to do as much as we can. I remember the races to the last playoffs spot with a first line of Zholtok Zubrus and Petrov... Man that was awesome. That team should have finished last in the league on Paper... however, it was 2 pts away from the last playoffs spot.

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Old
12-16-2009, 03:56 PM
  #24
glucker
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
If we had this record, with a completely or almost completely healthy team... then I honestly wouldn't have a problem with us going into a full-fledge rebuilding/selling mode.

But... before the organization even thinks about that, this team should at least get to prove what it can do with a fully healthy team; or at least a fully healthy core (i.e. Gionta and Markov back).

If getting Gionta and Markov back doesn't improve us, and our place in the standings (not necessarily higher than 8th, but at least more securely in the playoffs compared to the teams behind us), in January... then maybe this should be a selling trading deadline for us, yeah. But I really have to think that getting back one of the league's best 2nd liners (a solid 1st liner some nights) and one of the league's best defenseman and our best player, will help us a lot.


Oh, and on Philly and Toronto... a lot of people are assuming that Philly is going to snap out of it. I'm not so sure about that. There's something very wrong in the dressing room of that team, and if their management doesn't address it soon (probably with a trade if what's been said about Hartnell's wife and Carter is correct - if it's true, one or the other probably needs to be traded to bring that team back together), then they might not rebound soon enough to make the playoffs.

And as for Toronto... I just have a very hard time imagining that team keeping up their current goal scoring pace with the players that they have. Right now, a lot of their players are on pace for huge career years, and I have to wonder if that's sustainable over a full season. If it is, Ron Wilson is a better coach than he gets credit for. But... I don't think Toronto is going to keep it up.
Remember that the Leafs were top-10 in scoring last season to, without Kessel, and with Kaberle severely underperforming. Also, many players are on pace for career years because it's a young team, and the guys are continuing to develop.


My preseason prediction was that the Leafs and the Habs would finish very close to eachother in the standings, I stand by that.

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Old
12-16-2009, 03:57 PM
  #25
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Another useless post.

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