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Old
12-22-2009, 03:57 PM
  #26
Systemfel
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Any Swedes out there? (please translate )

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009...on_explai.html
What is it going to take for Dick Axelsson to play in Färjestad?
A bit a of a talk between my agent and Detroit. We'll see what happens.

How far off does it feel?
I don't know actually, I haven't been paying much attention to it since I got home, but they're really talking and I'm hoping for a quick solution.

Why did it not work out over there?
Many factors. Nothing I want to go into detail on right now but...you need a lot of factors to work and all that. It just went a bit wrong.

Are we going to see Dick Axelsson in the Färjestad jersey before the end of this month?
I hope so.

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Old
12-23-2009, 03:48 PM
  #27
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Since most leagues are taking a break I think it would be interesting to see how other Red Wing fans rank our prospects in terms of potential and where they are on the depth chart. There have been a lot of surprises at nearly every position so this years list will look much different than in previous years so It would be nice to get a good base of how people feel about prospects.To add a little more fun to it so it's not just listing names it would be cool if people did it in lineup format.

Tomas Tatar-Landon Ferraro-Jan Mursak
Gustav Nyquist-Cory Emmerton-Andrej Nestrasil
Dick Axelsson-Evan McGrath-Willie Coetzee
Mitchell Callahan-Brent Raedeke-Mattias Ritola

Jakub Kindl-Brendan Smith
Adam Almqvist-Max Nicastro
Brian Lashoff-Gleason Fournier
Sergei Kolosov


Figure it can be an interesting way to continue discussion about our prospects while there are no games. Hopefully we have some disagreements to keep it interesting.

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Old
12-23-2009, 05:24 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by humdrum View Post
Figure it can be an interesting way to continue discussion about our prospects while there are no games. Hopefully we have some disagreements to keep it interesting.
Ooh fun.

Tatar-Nyquist-Ferraro
Nestrasil-Emmerton-Coetzee
Ritola-Andersson-Mursak
Cayer-Raedeke-Callahan
Pare
Tardif

Kindl-Smith
Almqvist-Nicastro
Lashoff-Kolosov
Fournier

Larsson-McCollum

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Old
12-23-2009, 06:19 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by humdrum View Post
Tomas Tatar-Landon Ferraro-Jan Mursak
Gustav Nyquist-Cory Emmerton-Andrej Nestrasil
Dick Axelsson-Evan McGrath-Willie Coetzee
Mitchell Callahan-Brent Raedeke-Mattias Ritola

Jakub Kindl-Brendan Smith
Adam Almqvist-Max Nicastro
Brian Lashoff-Gleason Fournier
Sergei Kolosov
Suggests to me that the Wings pipeline needs a scoring center and a d-man with good defense. Ferraro is talented, but may cap out at a 2nd line complementary guy.

It seems like there are a glut of talented wingers coming up, which sure wasn't always the case for this organization. Lots of talented puck-moving defensemen as well, which is obviously characteristic.

Of course, they could fill those holes at free agency, but I would hate to rely on a 1st line UFA centerman. It's such an integral position for the team that you want it to be a franchise guy.

Obviously it's a long-shot, but if the Wings find themselves out of the playoff hunt, I would love to see a package put together to move up in the draft for Tyler Seguin. As I said, though, Holland, Hakan and Nill don't have a high opinion of moving up in drafts and are probably loath to move significant assets at this time.

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Old
12-23-2009, 07:11 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by slabby View Post
Suggests to me that the Wings pipeline needs a scoring center and a d-man with good defense. Ferraro is talented, but may cap out at a 2nd line complementary guy.

It seems like there are a glut of talented wingers coming up, which sure wasn't always the case for this organization. Lots of talented puck-moving defensemen as well, which is obviously characteristic.

Of course, they could fill those holes at free agency, but I would hate to rely on a 1st line UFA centerman. It's such an integral position for the team that you want it to be a franchise guy.

Obviously it's a long-shot, but if the Wings find themselves out of the playoff hunt, I would love to see a package put together to move up in the draft for Tyler Seguin. As I said, though, Holland, Hakan and Nill don't have a high opinion of moving up in drafts and are probably loath to move significant assets at this time.
Over on LGW the majority of posters believed we should go after a goal scoring winger but after a closer look at the depth at each position it's clear we need offensive centers. Our crop of wingers is very promising on both sides of center both in the near future and distant future. Mursak and Tatar are enjoying great seasons in the Ahl which is pretty good indication they are at most a year or two away from fighting for a roster spot on theWings. Then you've got Nestrasil, Nyquist, Coetzee all having breakout seasons while still being multiple years away from challenging for a roster spot on the Wings.

Management obviously believes in spending a minimal amount of assets when it comes to defenseive d-men.I think evidence indicates that management believes they can teach the defensive side of the puck to defensemen coming up through the ranks so they're not overly worried about drafting someone who projects as a stay at home defeseman.Just look at how few we have and where they were selected
Lashoff - UD
Kosolov-151
Nicastro-90

I agree in that if we have a shot at a high end offensive centerman we need to take a stab at him even if he's a bit of a project. If we can get one it would alleviate some of the pressure for Filpulla to fill the second line center role while giving us a very good opportunity to unite the euro twins.It wouldn't surprise me to see management draft some "project" centerman in hopes that given enough time to develop they'll be something special by the time Euro Twins start to age a bit.As far as giving up assets to get him... I don't see this team's management doing it.

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Old
12-23-2009, 07:15 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
Ooh fun.

Tatar-Nyquist-Ferraro
Nestrasil-Emmerton-Coetzee
Ritola-Andersson-Mursak
Cayer-Raedeke-Callahan
Pare
Tardif

Kindl-Smith
Almqvist-Nicastro
Lashoff-Kolosov
Fournier

Larsson-McCollum
So very low on Mursak and you might be the only person I've ever even seen mention Cayer. Your reasoning behind those choices?

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Old
12-23-2009, 09:00 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by humdrum View Post
So very low on Mursak and you might be the only person I've ever even seen mention Cayer. Your reasoning behind those choices?
I didn't really write that with a predominantly hierarchical approach as in a ranking of best to worst but rather in a way to maximize depth and effectiveness of each of thier games. At the NHL level, I see Mursak as a 2nd/3rd line tweener who is an excellent third liner and can also play in the top six. Much like Andersson. As in, if you have guys like that on your third line that can provide very good defense along with energy and some good scoring talent, then that's a really, really good thing. I don't consider where I put Mursak as very low because even though he's on the third line in 5-on-5 situations, he can still get Filpulla type minutes. I thought either Mursak or Ferraro would be awesome in that role and in the end I gave Ferraro the top six role because I think he has better knack for shooting the puck. If Mursak were a center I'd definitely put him in the top six.

I can see that maybe after reading all that you'd think "Well why not put Mursak in Coetzee's spot?" At this point, I kind of agree with the assessment that Coetzee will be a top-six or bust kind of prospect. But that could definitely change within the next year or so.

I like players on the fourth line that can really skate and play physical and can chip in offensively every now and again. Players like Jiri Hudler who could really score in limited minutes are quite rare in my view. I didn't really see many players on the Wings prospects list that could really do those things as effective fourth line players. The only player I can see someone really lobbying for that spot is Tardif but I think Cayer is better skater and has better upside offensively even with his lack of point production this year. He may never be as good as McGrath offensively but I think Cayer has a better aggressive nature to him than McGrath that can really be effective in a fourth line role.

EDIT: Oh, and Axelsson used to be in that imaginary lineup but with everything that's happened I really don't think he'll make it in a Wings jersey.

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:02 PM
  #33
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Tatar - Nyquist - Mursak
Nestrasil - Ferraro - Coetzee
Ritola - Andersson - Emmerton
Pare - Raedeke - Cayer

Kindl - Smith
Kolosov - Pyett
Lashoff - Nicastro

McCollum
Larsson

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:14 PM
  #34
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Tatar-Nyquist-Mursak
Axelsson-Ferraro-Nestrasil
Raedeke-Emmerton-Coetzee
Pare(?)-Andersson-Ritola

Kindl - Smith
Nicastro - Kolosov
Lashoff - Almqvist

McCollum
Larsson

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Old
12-24-2009, 12:26 AM
  #35
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I tried not to read any other lists before I make this so here is mine

Potential Only:
Tatar-Nyquist-Mursak
Samuelsson-Ferraro-Axelsson
Ryno-Emmerton-Nestrasil
Callahan-Andersson-Stolyarov
Kindl-Smith
Almqvist-Nicastro
Kolosov-Pyett
McCollum
Larsson

More Realistic:
Tatar-Nyquist-Mursak
Nestrasil-Ferraro-Axelsson
Pare-Emmerton-Ritola
Callahan-Andersson-Oslund
Kindl-Smith
Nicastro-Pyett
Kolosov-Lashoff
McCollum
Larsson

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Old
12-24-2009, 12:48 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
I tried not to read any other lists before I make this so here is mine

Potential Only:
Tatar-Nyquist-Mursak
Samuelsson-Ferraro-Axelsson
Ryno-Emmerton-Nestrasil
Callahan-Andersson-Stolyarov
Kindl-Smith
Almqvist-Nicastro
Kolosov-Pyett
McCollum
Larsson

More Realistic:
Tatar-Nyquist-Mursak
Nestrasil-Ferraro-Axelsson
Pare-Emmerton-Ritola
Callahan-Andersson-Oslund
Kindl-Smith
Nicastro-Pyett
Kolosov-Lashoff
McCollum
Larsson
Axelsson? It's just hard for me to imagine him making it after all this drama. Ever since the likes of Fedorov left Kenny has been all about low maintenance players.

I'd like to hear why you think Oslund is a realistic possibility. Not that I doubt you or anything yet-Maybe there's something about him that I don't know. I would love for him to make it but I haven't heard of anything that would give me much optimism.

Pare is another guy I really would like to see in a Wings jersey but bearing in mind the Drake-Draper-Cleary line in the 08 playoffs and the discovery of the Draper-Helm-Eaves speed line I feel like I want
those elements on the bottom six and I just don't know if Pare will ever skate well enough to be that way.

Also, did anyone hear that Lashoff made the USA WJC team but Nicastro didn't? I guess I'm not too surprised. Nicastro isn't getting that many minutes from what I hear and he's on a deep back end core at BU.

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Old
12-24-2009, 01:00 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
Axelsson? It's just hard for me to imagine him making it after all this drama. Ever since the likes of Fedorov left Kenny has been all about low maintenance players.

I'd like to hear why you think Oslund is a realistic possibility. Not that I doubt you or anything yet-Maybe there's something about him that I don't know. I would love for him to make it but I haven't heard of anything that would give me much optimism.

Pare is another guy I really would like to see in a Wings jersey but bearing in mind the Drake-Draper-Cleary line in the 08 playoffs and the discovery of the Draper-Helm-Eaves speed line I feel like I want
those elements on the bottom six and I just don't know if Pare will ever skate well enough to be that way.

Also, did anyone hear that Lashoff made the USA WJC team but Nicastro didn't? I guess I'm not too surprised. Nicastro isn't getting that many minutes from what I hear and he's on a deep back end core at BU.
I can't give up on Axelsson yet, who knows what is going to happen through the 2nd half of his contract. Just because Ryno didn't work out doesn't mean all players that go home due to homesickness aren't going to work out. I feel Axelsson will get enough heat in Sweden for his decision and come back either this season or next. It is looking bad right now but his stock can shoot up at any time.

Also Oslund is having a breakout season. He has the size to play a 4th line role and if he can improve on his first half numbers for the next year and a half I can see him getting a shot at Grand Rapids. But I really just slotted him their because he is the best potential checker in my opinion.

And I love Pare's game. He needs to work on his skating but he is so smart. He knows how to throw the puck on the net to create rebounds and scoring chances. He is the type of player you need in the playoffs along with someone to put in the dirty goals.

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Old
12-24-2009, 01:04 AM
  #38
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From what I've read on here by people who watched the games, Nicastro getting cut was ridiculous.. People were praising him for how well he played, and a few hours later, he was cut.. I was really looking forward to watching him play, so it was pretty disappointing..

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12-24-2009, 01:55 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Redwingsfan View Post
From what I've read on here by people who watched the games, Nicastro getting cut was ridiculous.. People were praising him for how well he played, and a few hours later, he was cut.. I was really looking forward to watching him play, so it was pretty disappointing..
What do you mean by playing well exactly? He was playing physical? Moving the puck well? What boards are available for us to look at where you found this information?

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Old
12-24-2009, 02:12 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
What do you mean by playing well exactly? He was playing physical? Moving the puck well? What boards are available for us to look at where you found this information?
WJC board..

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=662902

Read the last couple of pages.. Looks like he was very good defensively and had some big hits..

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12-24-2009, 02:50 AM
  #41
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WJC board..

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=662902

Read the last couple of pages.. Looks like he was very good defensively and had some big hits..
Apparently the USA WJC brass was all about size and positional play. But I thought Max is a guy that prides himself on his positioning? He probably dished out those hits because he wanted to make an impression on the coaches. Maybe he was a little too eager to demonstrate his physical play?

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Old
12-24-2009, 12:53 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slabby View Post
Suggests to me that the Wings pipeline needs a scoring center and a d-man with good defense. Ferraro is talented, but may cap out at a 2nd line complementary guy.

It seems like there are a glut of talented wingers coming up, which sure wasn't always the case for this organization. Lots of talented puck-moving defensemen as well, which is obviously characteristic.
They could use a centerman with scoring ability and size, maybe like another Mule but a prototypical centerman. Responsible, good on faceoffs, size, good hockey sense obviously.

They could really use another Stuy on defense. Good mobility, a defensive first approach, can move the puck and doesnt have hands of stone, very physical, big and well built.

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Old
12-24-2009, 01:01 PM
  #43
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They could really use another Stuy on defense. Good mobility, a defensive first approach, can move the puck and doesnt have hands of stone, very physical, big and well built.
Are you willing to drop a top 15 first round pick on this? Remember where Stu was drafted those guys arent available in the 2nd round.

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Old
12-24-2009, 01:02 PM
  #44
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They could use a centerman with scoring ability and size, maybe like another Mule but a prototypical centerman. Responsible, good on faceoffs, size, good hockey sense obviously.
so you want getzlaf?

actually with dats, z, fil, helm, gator, mule and so on the C is filled with Cs and those who could play in case of injuries.

i wouldn't mind a real top6 scoring winger. i don't see one in the system at the moment. at least none who is a safe bet. tatar has to overcome his size which is possible, mursak gets better but still has to prove a lot and axelsson...well...axelsson. so adding a scoring winger at the next draft would be extremly nice.

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Old
12-24-2009, 01:35 PM
  #45
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so you want getzlaf?

actually with dats, z, fil, helm, gator, mule and so on the C is filled with Cs and those who could play in case of injuries.

i wouldn't mind a real top6 scoring winger. i don't see one in the system at the moment. at least none who is a safe bet. tatar has to overcome his size which is possible, mursak gets better but still has to prove a lot and axelsson...well...axelsson. so adding a scoring winger at the next draft would be extremly nice.
Dats, Z and Mule are all over 30. They're not going to be first liners forever. Especially with the way the Wings operate, anybody we draft is not going to be in the lineup for about 4 years anyway. At the present time, the Center cupboard is far from stocked, especially when it comes to putting up points.

As much as I love Gator, Helm and Fil, they are not scoring line centers. I think these guys have a little bit of potential to pull that out, but there's a decent chance that they're elements of future bottom 6 lines. Fil has the best shot at being a scorer, but I think he plays himself out of that consideration more and more each year.

I really don't think the Wings need to draft a scoring winger high in the draft. Wingers are, imo, the most reliable free agent acquisitions. I think it would be disastrous to pass up a talented offensive center just to pick up a North American winger.

If you wait to address pressing holes in your prospect depth, you end up in a full-blown rebuild and not just a short-term reload.

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Old
12-24-2009, 02:15 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slabby View Post
Dats, Z and Mule are all over 30. They're not going to be first liners forever. Especially with the way the Wings operate, anybody we draft is not going to be in the lineup for about 4 years anyway. At the present time, the Center cupboard is far from stocked, especially when it comes to putting up points.

As much as I love Gator, Helm and Fil, they are not scoring line centers. I think these guys have a little bit of potential to pull that out, but there's a decent chance that they're elements of future bottom 6 lines. Fil has the best shot at being a scorer, but I think he plays himself out of that consideration more and more each year.

I really don't think the Wings need to draft a scoring winger high in the draft. Wingers are, imo, the most reliable free agent acquisitions. I think it would be disastrous to pass up a talented offensive center just to pick up a North American winger.

If you wait to address pressing holes in your prospect depth, you end up in a full-blown rebuild and not just a short-term reload.
In 2 years Fil will score 80 points and Hudler 90, and I still think Leino will put up 70...in 2 years.....eh maybe 3 years. They will all be entering their prime and they are all very skilled players. '

...haha ok maybe not that good but I can see Fil putting up 70 Hudler 80 and Leino 65.

11/12 Red Wings
Franzen-Datsyuk-Zetterberg
Leino-Filp-Hudler
Mursak-Abdelkader-Axelsson
Eaves-Helm-Ritola
Miller

Emmerton is going to be traded, he is probably our most valuable forward asset on the Griffins, and it doesn't hurt that he was an early 2nd round pick either.




Also, does this season remind anyone of Colorado last season? Except we aren't tanking...... yet.

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Old
12-24-2009, 06:28 PM
  #47
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Dats, Z and Mule are all over 30. They're not going to be first liners forever.
but they are signed forever. and dats is 31, franzen 30 and Z is not even 30 yet for a whole year.

i guess we can use a lot in 4 years from now, a lot will happen till then. i don't think our prospect pool is really deep. way too much hype. i'm not sure we have a future top line D in the system for example. at least no allrounder.

we lack top line talent which is understandable because of the draft positions and traded picks in the past. nevertheless it would be nice to get another "where the **** did he came from" guy within the next 2-3 years.

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Old
12-24-2009, 07:17 PM
  #48
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In 2 years Fil will score 80 points and Hudler 90, and I still think Leino will put up 70...in 2 years.....eh maybe 3 years. They will all be entering their prime and they are all very skilled players. '

...haha ok maybe not that good but I can see Fil putting up 70 Hudler 80 and Leino 65.
Wow.
Way too much, if you ask me. And that's if Hudler even comes back.
'Flip is a 45 to 60 point man, IMO.
Hudler probably never returns.
Leino is a bum. No foot speed. No spirit.

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12-24-2009, 11:16 PM
  #49
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In 2 years Fil will score 80 points and Hudler 90, and I still think Leino will put up 70...in 2 years.....eh maybe 3 years. They will all be entering their prime and they are all very skilled players. '

...haha ok maybe not that good but I can see Fil putting up 70 Hudler 80 and Leino 65.

11/12 Red Wings
Franzen-Datsyuk-Zetterberg
Leino-Filp-Hudler
Mursak-Abdelkader-Axelsson
Eaves-Helm-Ritola
Miller

Emmerton is going to be traded, he is probably our most valuable forward asset on the Griffins, and it doesn't hurt that he was an early 2nd round pick either.




Also, does this season remind anyone of Colorado last season? Except we aren't tanking...... yet.
At times, your optimism borders on insanity (not necessarily a negative thing). Maybe I can see Flip's output reaching 70 points, but he hasnt shown me that potential yet. Leino is probably wishing he never came to NA. Hudler is probably glad he left.

Boy, to have an ounce of that happy juice you're drinking, that's what I need about now.

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Old
12-25-2009, 12:19 AM
  #50
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Well players do get better and stronger, and they all do have skill. Once Filppula gains his confidence he will be a 75 point man I am sure. Hudler put up plenty of points on the 3rd line last year, if he gets a bigger role, stronger, and a little faster, I can see him putting up 90 on the Wings. Wasn't Hudler like top 10 in the league last year in points per minute or something? And before the season i thought Leino would be a 65 point player in the future and I am sticking by that. He has hit a rough path but once he starts getting more physical he will put up points.

I try to look at the whole picture and not a "what have you done for me recently" view. And I try to be optimistic.

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