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Tony Talk - December 15, 2009

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12-16-2009, 12:19 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
i don't see the logic in a game-on-game analysis because you could pretty much do that with every player on the canucks and get mixed results, especially as most teams' 4th line players on average will be the decisive factor in 0 of that teams' games the entire season

i actually agree that hordichuk hasn't played well this year but i disagree that they no longer need him or another heavyweight to take his place

i also disagree that rypien is a heavyweight able to take on the guys i listed, as good of a fighter as he is...most teams have a heavyweight and a middleweight, the canucks just happen to be fortunate to have the best middleweight in the league

i think alot of fans have to remember two years back to the year before hordichuk was brought in and we had cowan fighting heavyweights...it was embarrassing to watch and most agreed that the canucks needed hordichuk or a player like him on the team
the logic of game-by-game analysis is that it shows - quite clearly - that you don't need Hordichuk in the lineup against those teams in order to beat those teams... if we don't consider that, what are we basing our opinions on? Doesn't it make sense to base it on how the team overall performs? and if you look at that, it clearly shows that Hordichuk has been a non-factor in this team's success.

and we're not the same team we were a couple years back. Intimidation is not a factor anymore for this team - when was the last time that this team was physically intimidated to the point it cost them a game… It doesn't happen because of the other options in the lineup, we didn't have 2 years ago - like O'Brien, Bernier, and Glass who all drop their gloves and play a physical game.

If you want to prove that he is useful at all, then show me in the games themselves... are we a worse team when we play one of the above listed teams with their heavyweights, while we are missing Hordichuk? The reality shows otherwise... if you want to ignore it to stick to your own opinions which are not backed up by the facts we can see in reality, that's your call... to me, it's clear as day, just by watching the games, that Hordichuk has no use on this team at all anymore... and the stats seem to back that up.

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12-16-2009, 12:25 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
the logic of game-by-game analysis is that it shows - quite clearly - that you don't need Hordichuk in the lineup against those teams in order to beat those teams... if we don't consider that, what are we basing our opinions on? Doesn't it make sense to base it on how the team overall performs? and if you look at that, it clearly shows that Hordichuk has been a non-factor in this team's success.

and we're not the same team we were a couple years back. Intimidation is not a factor anymore for this team - when was the last time that this team was physically intimidated to the point it cost them a game… It doesn't happen because of the other options in the lineup, we didn't have 2 years ago - like O'Brien, Bernier, and Glass who all drop their gloves and play a physical game.

If you want to prove that he is useful at all, then show me in the games themselves... are we a worse team when we play one of the above listed teams with their heavyweights, while we are missing Hordichuk? The reality shows otherwise... if you want to ignore it to stick to your own opinions which are not backed up by the facts we can see in reality, that's your call... to me, it's clear as day, just by watching the games, that Hordichuk has no use on this team at all anymore... and the stats seem to back that up.
i'm not sure if your problem is with hordichuk personally or with the idea of having a heavyweight on the team in general

i am of the opinion that unless a team has enough talent to do otherwise, you need a heavyweight in the lineup, something that about 90% of general managers in the nhl seem to agree with

if your problem is with hordichuk personally, then fine, i agree that his play has been sub-par this season, but that he's the least of the canucks worries and that he still holds some value to the team

as far as finding facts to back up my claim that hordichuk has some value, i point to his playoff performance against chicago 6 months ago as some evidence, as well as the state of the canucks before he arrived when cowan was fighting the heavies

i agree the canucks are tougher than 2 years ago with some of the guys you listed but in a physcially tough division/conference i don't think the guys you listed are sufficient

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12-16-2009, 12:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
So again I ask, what use does Hordichuk have, when you can list the enforcers on every team in the West, and reality shows that the Canucks are just as successful - if not more - even when Hordichuk is a healthy scratch against those teams.

Does he really have any value at all?
I agree completly. Hordichuk's situation would be better if we didn't have Glass and Rypien, but we do and these two players are consistant and smarter hockey players. How often do you see Hordichuk on rush...usually he ends of screwing up the play. Glass and Rypien create rushes and take the puck to the net.

Glass 4g 2a 6p +7
Rypien 2g 2a -1
Hordichuk 1g 1a -3

Looking at the stats Glass is better overall...and between Rypien and Hordichuk..i'd have to choose Rypien...and we don't need anymore than those two to play this role on this team.

As for team toughness..I think the canucks can hold their own with players like O'Brien, Mitchell & Bernier

Hordichuk = Cowan...You are the weakest link...GOODBYE!

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12-16-2009, 12:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Not to mention more often than not when you're not dressing a heavyweight the other team will put theirs in the press box.

Rick Rypien has made Hordichuk 100% redundant. Having Hordichuk around to lose to the top 15 fighters in the league is not something worth wasting a roster spot on Not only has Hordichuk proven he can't beat the super heavyweights, he can't beat the Jared Boll's of the world either.

One thing Tony doesn't understand about Wellwood is he's still vastly outperforming Hordichuk and is much better suited to the 3rd line than Rick Rypien. Unless the Canucks go outside the organization there's just no possible way you can replace him. For all the crying that goes on with Kyle he's still eating up his minutes at even strength with good results and the same cannot be said of his possible replacements.
WRONG

And I am done letting you post this drivel without reply!

He is not outperfroming anybody. Period. Aside from the obvious, this team needs more energy from the 3rd and 4th lines. Allowing the other team to get comfortable on the puck is not worth eating up time without getting scored on. And the way he is playing now, he is going to start to get scored on often.

Rypien, Johnson, Bolduc will not hang there head and cry, or run away when things get kind of emotionally challenging. They will stay and battle as hard as they can.

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12-16-2009, 12:38 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post

and we're not the same team we were a couple years back. Intimidation is not a factor anymore for this team - when was the last time that this team was physically intimidated to the point it cost them a game? It doesn't happen because of the other options in the lineup
nashville. period.

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12-16-2009, 12:41 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
i'm not sure if your problem is with hordichuk personally or with the idea of having a heavyweight on the team in general

i am of the opinion that unless a team has enough talent to do otherwise, you need a heavyweight in the lineup, something that about 90% of general managers in the nhl seem to agree with

if your problem is with hordichuk personally, then fine, i agree that his play has been sub-par this season, but that he's the least of the canucks worries and that he still holds some value to the team

as far as finding facts to back up my claim that hordichuk has some value, i point to his playoff performance against chicago 6 months ago as some evidence, as well as the state of the canucks before he arrived when cowan was fighting the heavies

i agree the canucks are tougher than 2 years ago with some of the guys you listed but in a physcially tough division/conference i don't think the guys you listed are sufficient
my problem is having a player simply because he's an enforcer or heavyweight... I don't think that a team should dress a player just because they can drop the gloves. If Hordichuk brought in other things in his game, if he was actually a decent player without having to fight, I'd have no problem with him... similar to Glass and Rypien now.

The problem I have though is thinking that you need a heavyweight just to have a heavyweight in the lineup... IMO that necessity was part of the old NHL and is not needed in today's game.

and as far as his playoff performance goes, he was as useless a presence as he has been otherwise IMO. Chicago, all series long, talked very openly about running Luongo, about taking a physical game to the crease and playing a physical brand of hockey against the Canucks... what did Hordichuk do? was he a deterrent against those guys running Luongo? did he change the momentum with any big hit or fight?

not from the series I saw.

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12-16-2009, 12:42 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by givemeda411 View Post
I agree completly. Hordichuk's situation would be better if we didn't have Glass and Rypien, but we do and these two players are consistant and smarter hockey players. How often do you see Hordichuk on rush...usually he ends of screwing up the play. Glass and Rypien create rushes and take the puck to the net.

Glass 4g 2a 6p +7
Rypien 2g 2a -1
Hordichuk 1g 1a -3

Looking at the stats Glass is better overall...and between Rypien and Hordichuk..i'd have to choose Rypien...and we don't need anymore than those two to play this role on this team.

As for team toughness..I think the canucks can hold their own with players like O'Brien, Mitchell & Bernier

Hordichuk = Cowan...You are the weakest link...GOODBYE!
With Wellwood, Rypien and Johnson being our only center options until Gillis does something or Bolduc is healthy and proves he can be a solution (Doubtful), we need 2 of these 3- and Wellwood has been so awful, he has to go.

Glass has clearly earned his spot over the others at this stage (we will see if it can continue but you gotta love this guy).

Hordichuck has been surprisingly bad this year. And he is likely finished. But is there anything we can do to get him some confidence, because the options are not attractive and we are not tough enough as a team, with all due respect to the players you mention above.

Are we able to give Hordichuck a conditioning stint in Manitoba to play in more situations, more minutes, get his hockey brain and hands (if you can call those hockey hands) going and give him some confidence?

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12-16-2009, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
and as far as his playoff performance goes, he was as useless a presence as he has been otherwise IMO. Chicago, all series long, talked very openly about running Luongo, about taking a physical game to the crease and playing a physical brand of hockey against the Canucks... what did Hordichuk do? was he a deterrent against those guys running Luongo? did he change the momentum with any big hit or fight?

not from the series I saw.
Blaming Hordichuk for "letting" Chicago's top 9 run Luongo all series long is pretty silly imo. Byfuglien, Burrish, Bolland, Ladd and the like all outplayed Hordichuk by several minutes per game.

If you wanted these guys stopped, look to our top 9 performers.

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12-16-2009, 12:46 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Blaming Hordichuk for "letting" Chicago's top 9 run Luongo all series long is pretty silly imo. Byfuglien, Burrish, Bolland, Ladd and the like all outplayed Hordichuk by several minutes per game.

If you wanted these guys stopped, look to our top 9 performers.
my point was that he was a non-presence in that series. He is the designated enforcer or heavyweight on this team... so shouldn't it be at least some of his responsibility to set the physical tone - if not, then what use does he have at all on this team?

he was basically a non-factor in the entire series... if you want to look at an enforcer who did his job for his team, look at the opposition... Eager was very effective all series long - and Hordichuk should have taken a lesson from that.

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12-16-2009, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
my problem is having a player simply because he's an enforcer or heavyweight... I don't think that a team should dress a player just because they can drop the gloves. If Hordichuk brought in other things in his game, if he was actually a decent player without having to fight, I'd have no problem with him... similar to Glass and Rypien now.

The problem I have though is thinking that you need a heavyweight just to have a heavyweight in the lineup... IMO that necessity was part of the old NHL and is not needed in today's game.

and as far as his playoff performance goes, he was as useless a presence as he has been otherwise IMO. Chicago, all series long, talked very openly about running Luongo, about taking a physical game to the crease and playing a physical brand of hockey against the Canucks... what did Hordichuk do? was he a deterrent against those guys running Luongo? did he change the momentum with any big hit or fight?

not from the series I saw.
fair enough, we're going to have to agree to disagree because i saw hordichuk create 2 key, timely goals in the chicago series (his own in game 3 and the o'brien goal in game 6) as well as be a physical presence

we will also have to agree to disagree about the need for a heavyweight in the lineup, although i will say that while it is the "new nhl" (whatever that means) that most nhl general managers/coaches would still agree with my opinion over yours

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12-16-2009, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
he was basically a non-factor in the entire series... if you want to look at an enforcer who did his job for his team, look at the opposition... Eager was very effective all series long - and Hordichuk should have taken a lesson from that.
Ben Eager is a notoriously fast skater with a good skill set for a "fighter".

The point is you can't have meat heads on your fourth line and expect them to do anything but play a couple minutes and fight.

Now, if we invested some draft picks, trades, signings, into these kinds of big, mobile forwards with skill, who can play in the top 9, I can see your argument.

Bur Hordichuk is what he is, and he will always be that: A fourth line goon. If you want better than that, don't blame him, blame the person who signed him, and blame the people who consistently argue that having skilled, big mean players who can play in the top 9 is no longer a part of the "NEW NHL".

Edit: and yes, we have been physically destroyed this season, against Nashville. It was only a week ago, if you are trying to block it from your memory. It was a fairly humiliating game.

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12-16-2009, 12:51 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
fair enough, we're going to have to agree to disagree because i saw hordichuk create 2 key, timely goals in the chicago series (his own in game 3 and the o'brien goal in game 6) as well as be a physical presence

we will also have to agree to disagree about the need for a heavyweight in the lineup, although i will say that while it is the "new nhl" (whatever that means) that most nhl general managers/coaches would still agree with my opinion over yours
well, maybe I don't think like most coaches or GMs... or maybe you're just reaching here assuming to know what coaches and GMs out there really think? or maybe you think that every coach and GM thinks like Burke?

and it should also be noted that the guy who matters here - the one who sets the lines - is scratching Hordichuk more often than not right now... and when he's getting into the lineup, it's at the expense of another player that has sucked all season long.

If Hordichuk was really that important, why would AV choose to make him a healthy scratch fairly regularly, while playing Glass and Rypien in every game? Clearly he thinks the latter 2 are more valuable than the other one.

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12-16-2009, 12:58 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
well, maybe I don't think like most coaches or GMs... or maybe you're just reaching here assuming to know what coaches and GMs out there really think? or maybe you think that every coach and GM thinks like Burke?

and it should also be noted that the guy who matters here - the one who sets the lines - is scratching Hordichuk more often than not right now... and when he's getting into the lineup, it's at the expense of another player that has sucked all season long.

If Hordichuk was really that important, why would AV choose to make him a healthy scratch fairly regularly, while playing Glass and Rypien in every game? Clearly he thinks the latter 2 are more valuable than the other one.
nobody is arguing that glass and rypien don't hold more value than hordichuk

not every gm talks like burke but alot think like him, otherwise you wouldn't have hordichuk signing here on the first day of free agency 2 years ago, guys like brashear, laraque, and others signing on the first day of free agency, and others...you wouldn't have teams acquiring "toughness" at the trade deadline either or see detroit going out and getting brad may when their talent got raided this summer

again, we will have to agree to disagree, i just think you're buying into the catchphrase of the "new nhl" a little two much, as one-dimensional tough guys have been fringe but necessary players on nhl teams said to be extinct since the 80s and i don't see that changing anytime soon

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12-16-2009, 12:58 PM
  #39
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Ben Eager is a notoriously fast skater with a good skill set for a "fighter".

The point is you can't have meat heads on your fourth line and expect them to do anything but play a couple minutes and fight.

Now, if we invested some draft picks, trades, signings, into these kinds of big, mobile forwards with skill, who can play in the top 9, I can see your argument.

Bur Hordichuk is what he is, and he will always be that: A fourth line goon. If you want better than that, don't blame him, blame the person who signed him, and blame the people who consistently argue that having skilled, big mean players who can play in the top 9 is no longer a part of the "NEW NHL".

Edit: and yes, we have been physically destroyed this season, against Nashville. It was only a week ago, if you are trying to block it from your memory. It was a fairly humiliating game.
great, we were physically destroyed in one game... lets change our entire team around because of that!

how many times have we beaten that same Nashville team?

as far as Eager goes - it didn't take a lot to get him... IIRC he was traded for a 6th round draft choice... and he may be much better than Hordichuk, but he is still the designated enforcer, and nothing more, on that Chicago team... he plays just 1min-game more than Hordichuk does... he hasn't produced any better either... he is a 4th line left winger on that team and the designated enforcer, that cost the Hawks slightly more - a 6th round pick - than what the Canucks paid to get Hordichuk... and there's no doubt he's a much better player.

and that really is my argument... to spend those late round pick, signings, trades to bring in a legitimate enforcer who can actually contribute in other ways without dropping his gloves, instead of having a guy like Hordichuk in the lineup, where we are better off having a middle-weight like Glass in the lineup instead.

I would love to see a legit heavyweight brought in, a la Eager... but if that isn't going to happen, I'd much rather have Glass or Rypien play that role and Hordichuk not on this team (and instead have that roster spot for Grabner).

Again, it's not about not having a heavyweight... it's specifically about having Hordichuk - IMO we are a better team without him on it.

edit: Eager was actually traded for Vandermeer... did not have much trade value at the time at all, and was basically a dump of struggling players.

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12-16-2009, 01:00 PM
  #40
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With Wellwood, Rypien and Johnson being our only center options until Gillis does something or Bolduc is healthy and proves he can be a solution (Doubtful), we need 2 of these 3- and Wellwood has been so awful, he has to go.

Glass has clearly earned his spot over the others at this stage (we will see if it can continue but you gotta love this guy).

Hordichuck has been surprisingly bad this year. And he is likely finished. But is there anything we can do to get him some confidence, because the options are not attractive and we are not tough enough as a team, with all due respect to the players you mention above.

Are we able to give Hordichuck a conditioning stint in Manitoba to play in more situations, more minutes, get his hockey brain and hands (if you can call those hockey hands) going and give him some confidence?
Bolduc is healthy. He's playing in the AHL right now...

I agree with NFiTO. Hordichuk has been vastly outplayed by both Rypien and Glass and if Grabner stays, he's going to be waived. He's useless. He can't fight to save himself and he can't play worth a damn. The Canucks don't need him. Teams have heavyweights when they don't have the skill to win games. See Nashville. Minnesota.

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12-16-2009, 01:05 PM
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Bolduc is healthy. He's playing in the AHL right now...

I agree with NFiTO. Hordichuk has been vastly outplayed by both Rypien and Glass and if Grabner stays, he's going to be waived. He's useless. He can't fight to save himself and he can't play worth a damn. The Canucks don't need him. Teams have heavyweights when they don't have the skill to win games. See Nashville. Minnesota.
i still don't see who replaces hordichuk when you get rid of him...if you want to get rid of him in the offseason, fine, but the canucks don't have a player in their organization who can do what he does

and i know that we as canuck fans think he have the most talented team in the west, but last time i checked nashville was 5 points ahead and minnesota was 8-2 in their last 10 games

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12-16-2009, 01:09 PM
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great, we were physically destroyed in one game... lets change our entire team around because of that!
Hey, don't make statements if you want evidence against them.
you stated
Quote:
The problem I have though is thinking that you need a heavyweight just to have a heavyweight in the lineup... IMO that necessity was part of the old NHL and is not needed in today's game.
then went further and said:
Quote:
Intimidation is not a factor anymore for this team - when was the last time that this team was physically intimidated to the point it cost them a game… It doesn't happen because of the other options in the lineup
Clearly, incorrect.
And that is my point. This "New NHL" BS you are perpetuating is garbage.

In hockey there will always be teams that use physical intimidation against the opposition. In that game Edler was knocked out for at least a week, Burrows was run from behind, and we were smacked around all night.

You may have enjoyed watching it, but I did not. You may enjoy watching this team get out hit and out muscled every night, but I don't. Bottom 3 once again in registered hits.

Oh **** did I just say that? Now I have to listen to the statisticians tell me that the NHL hit stat is garbage and even though the Canucks have been at the bottom for two years straight now its all figment of the NHL's imagination.

Edit: I shudder to think what your suggestion would entail. Hordichuk is currently top 3 in our team in hits. Your suggestion would weaken the lineup further to the point we are a physical non-entity.

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12-16-2009, 01:12 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Bur Hordichuk is what he is, and he will always be that: A fourth line goon. If you want better than that, don't blame him, blame the person who signed him, and blame the people who consistently argue that having skilled, big mean players who can play in the top 9 is no longer a part of the "NEW NHL".

Nobody is blaming Hordchuk, they're blaming the guy who continues to put him in the lineup without any incentive to do so. Why can't Rypien, Glass and O'Brien handle the fighting?

I also don't see anyone objecting to having 'skilled, big mean players who can play in the top 9'. It's the big, mean players lacking skill and skating ability people have a problem with. The players you described don't get dealt and they rarely if ever hit the free agent market. If you want them, you have to draft them.

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12-16-2009, 01:13 PM
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i still don't see who replaces hordichuk when you get rid of him...if you want to get rid of him in the offseason, fine, but the canucks don't have a player in their organization who can do what he does

and i know that we as canuck fans think he have the most talented team in the west, but last time i checked nashville was 5 points ahead and minnesota was 8-2 in their last 10 games
Grabner and Demitra have to come back sometime. We'd have to waive two forwards in order to add them to the lineup. The logical choices would be Wellwood and Hordichuk. Two players that just don't fit in with the style of the team anymore and don't exactly play all that great.

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12-16-2009, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Nobody is blaming Hordchuk, they're blaming the guy who continues to put him in the lineup without any incentive to do so. Why can't Rypien, Glass and O'Brien handle the fighting?

I also don't see anyone objecting to having 'skilled, big mean players who can play in the top 9'. It's the big, mean players lacking skill and skating ability people have a problem with. The players you described don't get dealt and they rarely if ever hit the free agent market. If you want them, you have to draft them.
Hordichuk has played 21 games and is still top 3 on our teams in registered hits. That is pathetic in and of itself.
In order to throw that many hits you need to be able to have a modicum of skating ability. I think people are over blowing Hordichuk's uselessness.

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12-16-2009, 01:17 PM
  #46
NFITO
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
i still don't see who replaces hordichuk when you get rid of him...if you want to get rid of him in the offseason, fine, but the canucks don't have a player in their organization who can do what he does

and i know that we as canuck fans think he have the most talented team in the west, but last time i checked nashville was 5 points ahead and minnesota was 8-2 in their last 10 games
you don't need to take a shot at Canuck fans that don't agree with you to make a point - your last statement there is useless and unnecessary... no one thinks that we have the most talented team in the West.

but I still can't understand why anyone thinks that Hordichuk actually does something that we need in this organization? What exactly would we have to replace if he was no longer around?

We have several other players that will drop their gloves... and it's not like Hordichuk actually wins many fights against tougher competition... he's only had 4 fights this season, and lost to the only enforcer that would be tough for the others to match-up against (McGratton).

Rypien and Glass have each had 7 fights this year.

So if we were to waive Hordichuk - what exactly does he bring that would need to be replaced? 6 mins a night and a minus player that doesn't fight often, is seen by his coach as one of the top healthy scratch options on the team, and is pretty much always outperformed by the opposition's 4th line when hes on the ice?

I just can't see what he brings to this team that makes him valuable at all?

doesn't matter anyways... even though we won't agree here, I'm happy knowing that the guy making the decisions with the lineup doesn't think he brings much value either... I was afraid he wouldn't see that, and we'd see better players waived to keep him on the roster... given his lineup decisions over the course of the year, that doesn't appear to be the case - thankfully.

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Old
12-16-2009, 01:20 PM
  #47
Jack Tripper
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if hordichuk gets waived, it will be hilarious revisiting this thread once rypien/glass get the fighting duties

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Old
12-16-2009, 01:21 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
So if we were to waive Hordichuk - what exactly does he bring that would need to be replaced?
The highest hits per game average on the team?

The third most hits on a pathetically unphysical team?

Edit: But please disregard these facts I've presented twice now to continue arguing with people making silly arguments.

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Old
12-16-2009, 01:26 PM
  #49
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by MooseHunter View Post
Grabner and Demitra have to come back sometime. We'd have to waive two forwards in order to add them to the lineup. The logical choices would be Wellwood and Hordichuk. Two players that just don't fit in with the style of the team anymore and don't exactly play all that great.
Neither of those two make enough to generate enough cap space required (as they'll have to be replaced by at least a "minimum wage" player).

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Old
12-16-2009, 01:30 PM
  #50
Mr. Canucklehead
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
again, disagree as hordichuk was a top-10 heavy in the league prior to coming to vancouver and was able to fight any and all of the guys listed

it may be a fair question whether he's the fighter he used to be, but he beat parros clean twice last season and beat janssen this season, so i don't think he's washed up yet despite recent losses to mcgrattan, boogaard, and belak
Janssen, IMO, is a middleweight. He could not contend with the likes of Boogaard or Laraques, same as Hordichuk.

A look at Hordichuk's fighting history, courtesy of hockeyfights. Starting in 2003-2004 as that's when they started voting on fight winners.: (heavyweights bolded)


2003-2004 Season:
Fights: 16(8 not scored - voted fights listed)
Opponents: Chris Simon, Peter Worrell, Darcy Verot, Doug Doull, Ryan Vandenbusche, Andre Roy, Nathan Perrot, Bryan Marchment

Record: 3-5-0(wins against Worrell, Verot and Marchment)

2005-2006 Season:
Fights: 11
Opponents: Jody Shelley, Mark Smith, Georges Laraque, Sean Avery, Jason Strudwick, Chris Simon, Maxime Talbot, Darren McCarty, Barret Jackman, Matt Barnaby, Mike Brown

Record: 7-4-0(wins against Smith, Avery, Talbot, McCarty, Jackman, Barnaby, Brown).

2006-2007 Season:
Fights: 10
Opponents: Reed Low, Josh Gratton, George Parros(x2), Chris Neil, Shawn Thornton, Georges Laraque, Maxime Talbot, D.J. King, Jason Smith

Record: 4-3-3(wins against Gratton, Parros, Talbot and Smith)

2007-2008 Season:
Fights: 12
Opponents: Brad Winchester, D.J. King, Jody Shelley(x2), Zack Stortini(x3), George Parros, Jared Boll, Andrew Peters, Daniel Carcillo, Wade Brookbank

Record: 7-1-4(wins against Winchester, Stortini(x3), Parros, Boll, Carcillo)

2008-2009:
Fights: 13
Opponents: Andre Roy, Andrew Peters, Derek Boogaard,, Ryan Hollweg, Darren McCarty, Cody McCormick, Zack Stortini, Chris Neil, Wade Belak, Jared Boll, Kevin Westgarth, George Parros(x2)

Record: 5-5-3(wins against Parros(x2), Westgarth, Stortini and McCarty)

2009-2010:
Fights: 4
Opponents: Bryan McGrattan, Zack Stortini, Brandon Prust, Cam Janssen

Record: 3-1-0(wins against all the non-heavies)

By my count, the only wins against legitimate heavyweights he has on record are multiple scraps with George Parros, who isn't exactly the greatest fighter in the world, Peter Worrell, Mike Brown and Jared Boll.

So which top heavyweight has he tangled with and won against? Really? Because that list of heavyweights he has beaten isn't exactly impressive.

~Canucklehead~

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