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Tony Talk - December 15, 2009

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12-16-2009, 04:14 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I find myself agreeing with Boudreault. In a perfect world, I'd love to see the NHL the way it used to be...where the players who were there to fight and play physical could also play. The days of Probert, Domi, May, Williams, Odjick...those were the glory days. Now we have people like Koci and Boogaard whose sole purpose is to fight, hurt some people and then staple their butt to the bench.

Maybe part of the reason I like Rypien and Glass over Hordichuk...they can actually play the game a little bit.

~Canucklehead~
all the guys you just listed received multiple suspensions for hurting guys

they also played in an era where they weren't the sole enforcer on their team...the canucks in their 94 run carried odjick, hunter, and antoski

however i must say i miss the era where every player had to be accountable for their actions and couldn't just turtle after reckless/dangerous hits or hide behind a visor

must say i miss the occasional late-game line brawl as well

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12-16-2009, 04:16 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post

must say i miss the occasional late-game line brawl as well
Apparently starting a fight in the last 5 minutes is alot different in the leagues eyes than starting one in the first 5 minutes.

Oh well, we can thank all those proponents of the "NEW NHL" for this.

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12-16-2009, 04:16 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
all the guys you just listed received multiple suspensions for hurting guys

they also played in an era where they weren't the sole enforcer on their team...the canucks in their 94 run carried odjick, hunter, and antoski

however i must say i miss the era where every player had to be accountable for their actions and couldn't just turtle after reckless/dangerous hits or hide behind a visor

must say i miss the occasional late-game line brawl as well
I know that they were all suspended--I'm just saying that it wasn't like in Koci's case that their sole purpose for being on the ice was being a big body that could hurt someone. Those dudes could actually play.(Probert and Williams each had over 30, Odjick had 16 goals 1 year, Domi and May each had respectable point totals in some seasons). You could justify having them on the ice for another reason than hurting another player or fighting, which with a guy like Koci or Boogaard you just can't do.

That was what I meant.

~Canucklehead~

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12-16-2009, 04:19 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I know that they were all suspended--I'm just saying that it wasn't like in Koci's case that their sole purpose for being on the ice was being a big body that could hurt someone. Those dudes could actually play.(Probert and Williams each had over 30, Odjick had 16 goals 1 year, Domi and May each had respectable point totals in some seasons). You could justify having them on the ice for another reason than hurting another player or fighting, which with a guy like Koci or Boogaard you just can't do.

That was what I meant.

~Canucklehead~
cool

it should be noted that many of today's enforcers can play a regular 4th line shift as well, and that boogaard or koci are the exception rather than the norm

however i don't think you'll see a #1 enforcer score like probert again, he was one-of-a-kind

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12-16-2009, 04:20 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
cool

it should be noted that many of today's enforcers can play a regular 4th line shift as well, and that boogaard or koci are the exception rather than the norm

however i don't think you'll see a #1 enforcer score like probert again, he was one-of-a-kind
Very true, but I'd settle for guys like Lucic who can play and fight and hit and all that jazz. But oh well, we'll just have to have our fond memories of yesteryear.

~Canucklehead~

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12-16-2009, 04:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Very true, but I'd settle for guys like Lucic who can play and fight and hit and all that jazz. But oh well, we'll just have to have our fond memories of yesteryear.

~Canucklehead~
I can only imagine the complaints that would have surfaced if we had drafted Lucic :

"he's only a fighter"

"hes too slow for the new nhl"

"What a waste of a second round pick on a grinder"

etc etc ad nauseum etc.

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12-16-2009, 05:22 PM
  #82
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Hordisuck is a waste of a roster spot. He doesn't fight enough and when he is forced to fight a TRUE heavyweight he loses. We do NOT need him to match up against the Boogard's and Parros' of the league, because he cannot match up with them. So in, or out of the lineup Hordisuck doesn't contribute anything. If teams want to send out their heavyweights to intimidate the Sedins or Kesler, let them...we'll score on the ensuing PP and pocket our 2 points on their stupidity. Too many people have the old Philadelphia Flyers mentality where gooning it up played a significant role in hockey...those days are going bye-bye, look at the Flyers now.

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12-16-2009, 05:54 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Hordisuck is a waste of a roster spot. He doesn't fight enough and when he is forced to fight a TRUE heavyweight he loses. We do NOT need him to match up against the Boogard's and Parros' of the league, because he cannot match up with them. So in, or out of the lineup Hordisuck doesn't contribute anything. If teams want to send out their heavyweights to intimidate the Sedins or Kesler, let them...we'll score on the ensuing PP and pocket our 2 points on their stupidity. Too many people have the old Philadelphia Flyers mentality where gooning it up played a significant role in hockey...those days are going bye-bye, look at the Flyers now.
The Flyers are ranked 27th in team hits. Whats the point you are trying to make?

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12-16-2009, 05:54 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
I can only imagine the complaints that would have surfaced if we had drafted Lucic :

"he's only a fighter"

"hes too slow for the new nhl"

"What a waste of a second round pick on a grinder"

etc etc ad nauseum etc.
You forgot:

"He is injury prone."

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12-16-2009, 05:57 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Hordisuck is a waste of a roster spot. He doesn't fight enough and when he is forced to fight a TRUE heavyweight he loses. We do NOT need him to match up against the Boogard's and Parros' of the league, because he cannot match up with them. So in, or out of the lineup Hordisuck doesn't contribute anything. If teams want to send out their heavyweights to intimidate the Sedins or Kesler, let them...we'll score on the ensuing PP and pocket our 2 points on their stupidity. Too many people have the old Philadelphia Flyers mentality where gooning it up played a significant role in hockey...those days are going bye-bye, look at the Flyers now.
Three fights in the first 5:33 last night against the Penguins?

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12-16-2009, 06:02 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Three fights in the first 5:33 last night against the Penguins?
i didn't see godard, rupp, or adams complaining

just a good first period between two heated rivals...remember, the nhl used to have rivalries?

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12-16-2009, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post

You may have enjoyed watching it, but I did not. You may enjoy watching this team get out hit and out muscled every night, but I don't. Bottom 3 once again in registered hits.

Oh **** did I just say that? Now I have to listen to the statisticians tell me that the NHL hit stat is garbage and even though the Canucks have been at the bottom for two years straight now its all figment of the NHL's imagination.

Edit: I shudder to think what your suggestion would entail. Hordichuk is currently top 3 in our team in hits. Your suggestion would weaken the lineup further to the point we are a physical non-entity.
I'd be curious to see what the stats were on visitor's hits in GM Place. Wonder if it's a scorekeeper issue.

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12-16-2009, 06:05 PM
  #88
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i didn't see godard, rupp, or adams complaining

just a good first period between two heated rivals...remember, the nhl used to have rivalries?
Yes but that was not the tenor of the post that I answered.

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12-16-2009, 06:07 PM
  #89
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I'd be curious to see what the stats were on visitor's hits in GM Place. Wonder if it's a scorekeeper issue.
I don't know about the visitor's stats, but we're in 27th in the league for both home and away hits, so there doesn't seem to be much of a difference there. Which doesn't necessarily mean that the way hits are counted makes any sense, just that it seems to be consistent from city to city.

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12-16-2009, 06:22 PM
  #90
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The Flyers are ranked 27th in team hits. Whats the point you are trying to make?
Hits have nothing to do with it...basically my point is that the one dimensional heavyweight in hockey is pretty much a dead career choice. You need to not be a liability when you are on the ice especially when 2 points are so important now.

My point about the Flyers is more about "goonery" in the league than a heavyweight issue. You can't have too many meatheads on your team and expect to win. I revel in their failures.

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12-16-2009, 06:25 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
i didn't see godard, rupp, or adams complaining

just a good first period between two heated rivals...remember, the nhl used to have rivalries?
I like it when every game has an equal amount of intensity- None.

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12-16-2009, 06:25 PM
  #92
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Hits have nothing to do with it...basically my point is that the one dimensional heavyweight in hockey is pretty much a dead career choice. You need to not be a liability when you are on the ice especially when 2 points are so important now.

My point about the Flyers is more about "goonery" in the league than a heavyweight issue. You can't have too many meatheads on your team and expect to win. I revel in their failures.
you could argue that the canucks have the same amount of "meatheads" on their team

cote/asham/carcillo/laperierre/pronger could arguably have the same effect as hordichuk/rypien/o'brien/glass/bieksa

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12-16-2009, 06:28 PM
  #93
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Hits have nothing to do with it...basically my point is that the one dimensional heavyweight in hockey is pretty much a dead career choice. You need to not be a liability when you are on the ice especially when 2 points are so important now.

My point about the Flyers is more about "goonery" in the league than a heavyweight issue. You can't have too many meatheads on your team and expect to win. I revel in their failures.
He isn't one dimensional. He can fight and he is third in our team in hits despite playing far less games than many other players.

Seems like that's 2 dimensions to me.

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12-16-2009, 06:30 PM
  #94
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He isn't one dimensional. He can fight and he is third in our team in hits despite playing far less games than many other players.

Seems like that's 2 dimensions to me.
And after he delivers a hit, he slows down the opposition by forcing them to skate around his prone body lying on the ice. There's 3.

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12-16-2009, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
He isn't one dimensional. He can fight and he is third in our team in hits despite playing far less games than many other players.

Seems like that's 2 dimensions to me.
So on this scale, how many dimensions is Ovechkin? 10? 20?

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12-16-2009, 07:05 PM
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So on this scale, how many dimensions is Ovechkin? 10? 20?
I thought Ovechkin was from an alternate dimension?

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12-16-2009, 07:30 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
He isn't one dimensional. He can fight and he is third in our team in hits despite playing far less games than many other players.

Seems like that's 2 dimensions to me.
You are kidding right? Have you watched him play at all? Sure he throws his body around but the majority of his "hits" are on the boards and not the opposition. I'm sure Horridsuck is great in the dressing room and all but his value on the ice is negligible. I'd almost rather have any player on the Moose take his spot.

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12-16-2009, 08:21 PM
  #98
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You are kidding right? Have you watched him play at all? Sure he throws his body around but the majority of his "hits" are on the boards and not the opposition. I'm sure Horridsuck is great in the dressing room and all but his value on the ice is negligible. I'd almost rather have any player on the Moose take his spot.
That may be your opinion but it runs contrary to the stats recorded by the league.

Maybe you should write a letter to the statistician for NHL.com

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12-16-2009, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
That may be your opinion but it runs contrary to the stats recorded by the league.

Maybe you should write a letter to the statistician for NHL.com
Hordichuk does try to hit but in your opinion what was his biggest impact body check of the season? I never see him killing guys like some of the other players in the league that go out on the ice with the sole intention of being physical.

How do you feel about Hordichuk being on the ice for twice as many goals against as goals for playing the easiest minutes of any player on the team? Shouldn't a stat like that be of concern to a team with the intention of winning a cup? He's getting badly beaten in his insanely easy minutes and that's a problem.

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12-16-2009, 09:10 PM
  #100
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Hordichuk does try to hit but in your opinion what was his biggest impact body check of the season? I never see him killing guys like some of the other players in the league that go out on the ice with the sole intention of being physical.

How do you feel about Hordichuk being on the ice for twice as many goals against as goals for playing the easiest minutes of any player on the team? Shouldn't a stat like that be of concern to a team with the intention of winning a cup? He's getting badly beaten in his insanely easy minutes and that's a problem.
maybe these two stats go together? maybe Hordy gets so many hits because he runs himself way out of position trying to finish the hit (so far out of position he's no longer on the TV screen, since no one other than the stat guy sees these hits) but then has so many goals scored against him because he's out of position?

it's all about priorities I guess.

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