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Tony Talk - December 15, 2009

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12-17-2009, 02:33 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
The only people I see trying to make the argument that you can only win the cup one way is yourself and CoHo777.
Win the cup what way? with talent and team toughness?...no way!!

So what you are saying is all we need is Donald Brashear and the Canucks will win the cup no problem?


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12-17-2009, 03:38 PM
  #127
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I would disagree. If I was one of many players on the Canucks (Burrows, Kesler, Hanson, etc) I'd be happier than a pig in you know what if one of their tough guys were out of the game. I'd be all the more likely to stir up trouble and be a pest with their players.

The 'stache' isn't going to be in the game at 'all times' even if he isn't taken out. You're going to get more of a benefit with Kesler and Burrows being able to run around without worry than you are with seeing the 'Stache' play 2-4 more minutes that game.
What do you think Kesler and Burrows worry about? It's not like they are going to fight Parros regardless of how much crap they disturb. What is Parros going to do about it? Run the Sedins? Run Luongo? Sure thats going to be a suspension or a lengthy PP...time to feast.

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12-17-2009, 03:52 PM
  #128
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At least we play Washington next....they don't have a tough guy. So we should be able to intimidate the hell out of them and win. I wonder how they got the most points in the NHL without one?

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12-17-2009, 05:51 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
At least we play Washington next....they don't have a tough guy. So we should be able to intimidate the hell out of them and win. I wonder how they got the most points in the NHL without one?
Perhaps you didn't pick it up the first 10 times it's been mentioned in this thread. Washington has had the same luxury as Pittsburg. They have had multiple top 5 picks to get elite talent with. The skill level of those two teams are pretty much unmatched in the NHL. We can't match skill vs those teams. So we have to beat them in other areas...

I'm hoping that you, and everyone else that uses the "Well, Pittsburg/Washington don't use tough guys" argument figure this out one day.

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12-17-2009, 06:01 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
Perhaps you didn't pick it up the first 10 times it's been mentioned in this thread. Washington has had the same luxury as Pittsburg. They have had multiple top 5 picks to get elite talent with. The skill level of those two teams are pretty much unmatched in the NHL. We can't match skill vs those teams. So we have to beat them in other areas...

I'm hoping that you, and everyone else that uses the "Well, Pittsburg/Washington don't use tough guys" argument figure this out one day.
How does Hordichuk help the Canucks beat Washington, and if he does, why is AV sitting him in favor of Wellwood for tomorrow's game?

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12-17-2009, 06:17 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
How does Hordichuk help the Canucks beat Washington, and if he does, why is AV sitting him in favor of Wellwood for tomorrow's game?
He doesn't against Washington because they aren't notorious for having a bunch of Matt Cooke's running around. However, as I pointed out, the majority of teams out there are NOT Pittsburg or Washington. MOST, if not all of the other 28 teams, have several players that will try to push around your star players to get them off their game.

Why is it you're having trouble comprehending this? Stop compairing everything to Pittsburg/Washington. They have a crazy amount of Talent that no other teams in the NHL can match straight up. So to do that, they employ other players, some of them who specialize in really going after your star players. People like Kesler, Burrows, Hanson, Cooke, Tootoo, etc. They're everywhere throughout the NHL Many of them are just not nearly as famous as the ones just mentioned, but they do the same job.

The problem with these players is that they'll push it and do everything they can, and if they're smart either do it when they won't get caught, or do enough that it really bothers other players, but isn't enough to really call a penalty.

When you're a player that does these sort of things and you just watched one of your teammates take a knockout punch because of it... you'll be less likely to continue doing it.

Easy enough?

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12-17-2009, 06:24 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
How does Hordichuk help the Canucks beat Washington, and if he does, why is AV sitting him in favor of Wellwood for tomorrow's game?
If you want a Canuck win, the last thing you want to do is go skill vs skill in a "run and gun" type game against Washington.

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12-17-2009, 06:27 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
He doesn't against Washington because they aren't notorious for having a bunch of Matt Cooke's running around. However, as I pointed out, the majority of teams out there are NOT Pittsburg or Washington. MOST, if not all of the other 28 teams, have several players that will try to push around your star players to get them off their game.

Why is it you're having trouble comprehending this? Stop compairing everything to Pittsburg/Washington. They have a crazy amount of Talent that no other teams in the NHL can match straight up. So to do that, they employ other players, some of them who specialize in really going after your star players. People like Kesler, Burrows, Hanson, Cooke, Tootoo, etc. They're everywhere throughout the NHL Many of them are just not nearly as famous as the ones just mentioned, but they do the same job.

The problem with these players is that they'll push it and do everything they can, and if they're smart either do it when they won't get caught, or do enough that it really bothers other players, but isn't enough to really call a penalty.

When you're a player that does these sort of things and you just watched one of your teammates take a knockout punch because of it... you'll be less likely to continue doing it.

Easy enough?
When's the last time (if ever) that Burrows or Kesler got a "knockout punch" from another team's enforcer for playing the way they do? What I have seen is guys like Burrows and Kesler goad the other team into cheapshotting them which allows Vancouver to bring out its 3rd ranked PP to do some damage.

It really comes down to roster space. Who do the Canucks waive to keep Hordichuk if Demitra and Grabner come back? Is it really worth waiving guys who aren't quite as tough but can play way better hockey (Rypien or Glass) just to keep Hordichuk?

Who from the following list would you waive in order to keep Hordichuk on the roster:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Raymond-Kesler-Grabner
Bernier-Demitra-Samuelsson
Hansen-Johnson-Glass
Rypien

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12-17-2009, 06:28 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
If you want a Canuck win, the last thing you want to do is go skill vs skill in a "run and gun" type game against Washington.
Right up there with the last things I'd want is having a guy who can't play hockey like Hordichuk get stuck out against Washington's skill due to a bad line match or an icing. See last night's 4th line shifts vs. Getzlaf and Perry as an example.

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12-17-2009, 08:29 PM
  #135
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Well its obvious Uhmkay and LostMyMarbles err Glasses think Hordichuk is needed on this team to be a tough team to play against and keep other teams honest, and the team's skill can't compete vs the talented teams out there, with the latter part I agree with.

Fine you guys have your point of view and so do others.

So lets just agree to disagree.

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12-17-2009, 09:13 PM
  #136
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i laughed so hard last night when Parros owned hordichuk lmao

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12-17-2009, 10:45 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
He doesn't against Washington because they aren't notorious for having a bunch of Matt Cooke's running around. However, as I pointed out, the majority of teams out there are NOT Pittsburg or Washington. MOST, if not all of the other 28 teams, have several players that will try to push around your star players to get them off their game.

Why is it you're having trouble comprehending this? Stop compairing everything to Pittsburg/Washington. They have a crazy amount of Talent that no other teams in the NHL can match straight up. So to do that, they employ other players, some of them who specialize in really going after your star players. People like Kesler, Burrows, Hanson, Cooke, Tootoo, etc. They're everywhere throughout the NHL Many of them are just not nearly as famous as the ones just mentioned, but they do the same job.

The problem with these players is that they'll push it and do everything they can, and if they're smart either do it when they won't get caught, or do enough that it really bothers other players, but isn't enough to really call a penalty.

When you're a player that does these sort of things and you just watched one of your teammates take a knockout punch because of it... you'll be less likely to continue doing it.

Easy enough?
You would think that with all this talent Pittsburgh and Washington have that they'd need some "protection" from all the goons and pests on the 28 other teams....oh thats right, their talent transcends goonery in all its forms. NOBODY needs goons anymore, they serve no purpose other than to cater to the slope foreheaded, lowest common denominating hockey fans. I enjoy a good unscripted tilt but the idea that the one dimensional fighter is necessary in todays game is retarded.

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Old
12-17-2009, 11:05 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
You would think that with all this talent Pittsburgh and Washington have that they'd need some "protection" from all the goons and pests on the 28 other teams....oh thats right, their talent transcends goonery in all its forms. NOBODY needs goons anymore, they serve no purpose other than to cater to the slope foreheaded, lowest common denominating hockey fans. I enjoy a good unscripted tilt but the idea that the one dimensional fighter is necessary in todays game is retarded.
pittsburgh dresses godard and rupp every game and are top-5 in the league in fighting majors, not sure why they're in the discussion here

washington is an exception but even they dress a neutered version of john erskine who can take on heavies if necessary

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12-18-2009, 12:36 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
pittsburgh dresses godard and rupp every game and are top-5 in the league in fighting majors, not sure why they're in the discussion here

washington is an exception but even they dress a neutered version of john erskine who can take on heavies if necessary
I never brought up Pittsburgh, my main point was Washington but you are right Pittsburgh does have a couple of heavies, although Rupp has a bit more skill than your average heavyweight and really isn't so one dimensional. They also have no real middleweights unless you count Craig Adams who isn't much of a fighter.

Detroit would be another team who has no real heavyweight, they have Brad May who doesn't instill fear in anyone anymore but is still game.

You don't need a heavyweight to succeed, you need team toughness with a few guys who can drop the gloves yet play some shifts and not be a liability every time he is out there. Otherwise its a waste of a roster spot.

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12-18-2009, 01:14 AM
  #140
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i laughed so hard last night when Parros owned hordichuk lmao
Except that didn't happen. That fight was a no-hitter. They fell down.


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