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The one thing that bothers me is the Habs seem so easy to play against

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Old
12-18-2009, 01:30 PM
  #101
MathMan
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So we should cherrypick the times where we did well?
Cherry-pick? It was a good 10-15 game stretch. They had the occasionnal terrible game thown it, but at the time I was actually encouraged at the time because the team was doing better in 5-on-5 flow and puck possession than any Habs team in recent memory. There was a long stretch of IIRC the 2-3 final games of that infamous five-game losing streak and that 5-game winning streak the Habs were actually outplaying teams. You're going to tell me that they weren't playing world-beaters, but it was there, and how are they doing against Atlanta now?

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I asked this on one of these threads before but is it true that Iggy challenged our entire team and nobody stepped up? If so, that should tell you all you need to know about the state of this team.
Yeah, I didn't buy it myself. As if someone wouldn't have gone just to take Iggy out of the game for 5 minutes. I give this no credence whatsoever, not least because I don't think Iggy is dumb enough to do this with his team leading by one.

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12-18-2009, 01:41 PM
  #102
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Cherry-pick? It was a good 10-15 game stretch. They had the occasionnal terrible game thown it, but at the time I was actually encouraged at the time because the team was doing better in 5-on-5 flow and puck possession than any Habs team in recent memory. There was a long stretch of IIRC the 2-3 final games of that infamous five-game losing streak and that 5-game winning streak the Habs were actually outplaying teams. You're going to tell me that they weren't playing world-beaters, but it was there, and how are they doing against Atlanta now?
Your point was that the team was fine until Martin got into the act... we weren't. We started the year terribly and only Price saved us. This completely contradicts your original point.

You then point to six or seven games later and a good stretch, now we're in a bad one. Your original point isn't valid.

As for how much we should blame Martin... well, like I said at the beginning (and you disagreed) I didn't like the signing. I felt that he had guided talented teams to first round playoff losses and he's shown nothing in Florida to demonstrate that he can do anything other than maybe tick off its marquee players. I hate the idea that he could become our next GM.

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Yeah, I didn't buy it myself. As if someone wouldn't have gone just to take Iggy out of the game for 5 minutes. I give this no credence whatsoever, not least because I don't think Iggy is dumb enough to do this with his team leading by one.
I don't know if it happened or not. Either way, we have too many guys who don't pay the price to win. It's not a good mix.

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12-18-2009, 01:59 PM
  #103
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Gainey should try to add at least one player like JF Jacques, Byfuglien, Steve Ott and Cody Mcleod, these players are really gritty they hit a lot, they got some offensive potential and they would not cost too much.

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12-18-2009, 02:01 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Your point was that the team was fine until Martin got into the act... we weren't. We started the year terribly and only Price saved us. This completely contradicts your original point.
I must have misremembered all this talk about how both goaltenders were struggling, then, because at the start of the season it seemed to be identified as the teeth-gnashing wail of choice.

I think the problem is that you view 'starting the season' as the first two games rather than the initial stretch of say fifteen. Which is valid, but not what I meant. Let me correct that by indicating 'in the early going' instead of 'a the start of the season'.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I don't know if it happened or not. Either way, we have too many guys who don't pay the price to win. It's not a good mix.
Martin has them playing a very passive, very defensive, collapse-to-the-net style which isn't conductive to bringing the puck in the offensive zone (a prerequisite for driving to the net) and racking up hit totals. If the coach demands a passive style, and to me it does seem to be the case, it's difficult to blame the players for not playing it aggressively.

I think that unless they get to "playing the right game", and take steps to transition the puck and attack the opposing zone more than they do now, "paying the price" in the offensive zone is going to be moot.

This "paying the price" issue is not a problem of fear of getting hurt. If it was, presumably they wouldn't block shots, but some nights it feels as if they make as many saves as Price. They have three guys in the top 20 of blocked shots (Roman Hamrlik is 4th), and two forwards in the top 20-for-forwards too.

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Old
12-18-2009, 02:15 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I must have misremembered all this talk about how both goaltenders were struggling, then, because at the start of the season it seemed to be identified as the teeth-gnashing wail of choice.

I think the problem is that you view 'starting the season' as the first two games rather than the initial stretch of say fifteen. Which is valid, but not what I meant. Let me correct that by indicating 'in the early going' instead of 'a the start of the season'.
It wasn't two games man. Again, you're picking the bright spots and ignoring the bad.
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Martin has them playing a very passive, very defensive, collapse-to-the-net style which isn't conductive to bringing the puck in the offensive zone (a prerequisite for driving to the net) and racking up hit totals. If the coach demands a passive style, and to me it does seem to be the case, it's difficult to blame the players for not playing it aggressively.

I think that unless they get to "playing the right game", and take steps to transition the puck and attack the opposing zone more than they do now, "paying the price" in the offensive zone is going to be moot.

This "paying the price" issue is not a problem of fear of getting hurt. If it was, presumably they wouldn't block shots, but some nights it feels as if they make as many saves as Price. They have three guys in the top 20 of blocked shots (Roman Hamrlik is 4th), and two forwards in the top 20-for-forwards too.
Who cares? Again, you're cherrypicking stats to try to make it look like we don't have a problem here.

Yes, I agree Martin isn't great and I agree that he hasn't done much to improve things. But we shy away from the physical aspects of the game. Now, that's okay if its just one or two players who do this but that's not the case with us. On the whole we have a group of small forwards who don't like to hit and don't have the size to effectively match up against other clubs. We're probably the least physical team in the league.

Yes, I think we have above average speed and we're not taking advantage of that the way we should but we don't have anyone with any kind of guts on this team. Komisarek was really the leader from that standpoint and now that he's gone nobody has stepped up. Blocking shots is great but you have to be willing to play some kind of physical game if you want to win.

I'm not saying that we should be the Flyers of the 70s but we need a better balance here.

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Old
12-18-2009, 04:43 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It wasn't two games man. Again, you're picking the bright spots and ignoring the bad.
Huh-huh. At least there were bright spots.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Who cares? Again, you're cherrypicking stats to try to make it look like we don't have a problem here.
There's a problem. I think you're largely mislaying blame, however. Lack of "guts" is not the issue. Lack of "size" may be an issue, but not to the extent it's being made out to be IMO.

Lack of aggression is the issue, and I don't see that it's purely, or even mostly, a personnel problem.

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12-18-2009, 05:07 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Huh-huh. At least there were bright spots.

There's a problem. I think you're largely mislaying blame, however. Lack of "guts" is not the issue. Lack of "size" may be an issue, but not to the extent it's being made out to be IMO.

Lack of aggression is the issue, and I don't see that it's purely, or even mostly, a personnel problem.
We don't even have a single player in the top 30 in hits. I know that you like Alex Tanguay and Scott Gomez perimeter type hockey but you need a mix. We are sorely lacking in this department.

When you don't go into the corner for the puck because you're afraid to take a hit (and this happens all the time on our club) then you aren't willing to pay the price to make the plays. Its one of the biggest problems that we have.

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Old
01-27-2010, 08:16 PM
  #108
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Time to up this thread. Team took these last 2 games off. 2 important games and you score a total of 1 goal?

cream puff, terry cloth, twinkie filling soft.

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01-27-2010, 08:33 PM
  #109
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If they played the TB game at home they would been booed off the ice.

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07-19-2010, 11:05 AM
  #110
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Maybe the only element is the Bell Centre crowd. One of the most intimidating place in the NHL.

Yes I know the post is like 7 months old, but the situation is the same and did not really change.

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07-19-2010, 11:17 AM
  #111
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We're hoping Boyd can add some grit while Eller will add size to the team, we need AK to keep up the physical play we saw in the playoffs - A lot of people were upset by his play but he skated hard for most of the playoffs and he finished a lot of hits.

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07-20-2010, 05:30 AM
  #112
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Maybe what Bauchemin said was not that far off base. The habs don't hate, they don't out-skate, they don't out-muscle you. They take weak shots, they take a lot of penalties, rarely is anyone in front of the net.

Teams used to hate to play the habs...now I think they look forward to playing them.

Playing the habs now is a walk in the park.

I hope this changes. I don't know where to start though. New players, new coach, same result.
I don't know where to start either. Maybe new fans. I'll make it brief.

NHL stars Alex Ovechkin, Alexander Semin, Mike Green, Sidney Crosby, Bill Guerin and Evgeni Malkin all said that the Habs were NOT easy to play against.

Some Anonymous Internet posters say they are.

Whom to believe???????

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Old
07-20-2010, 07:15 AM
  #113
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our forwards are generally quite small, but our defensemen are quite big... Gill, O'byrne, Hamrlik, they're all quite big... and Tinordi is just as huge so at least our d is quite big

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07-20-2010, 08:17 AM
  #114
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It's so refreshing to see that the lack of size is being recognized.

It's tiring to hear that we had a successful playoff run, we are a winning team, minor tinkering is needed but no major changes (including adding some muscle, some big guys, etc.)

What I think people fail to understand is that each year the dynamics of the league chnage. Every team in our division has made significant changes (save maybe Boston). therefore, the team we had will need to adapt significantly. This year is not last.

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07-20-2010, 08:37 AM
  #115
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If the team would be big, would you complain about lack of speed and agility?

If the team wins the Cup and needs to clear cap space, would you complain about "Damn PG can't keep his players and foresee the cup by giving long-term contracts"? (See Hawks' forum)


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07-20-2010, 08:39 AM
  #116
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Did you actually bring this OP back from the grave yourself?

You a masochist?

IF you had any brains at all, you would know how bad this thread made you look a few months later.
I don't understand the personal attacks. Mods, is this really necessary?

If you watched during the season, the teams that the Habs had the most problems with were the teams that aggressively forechecked, hit, and played a physical game. This is how Philly had so much success. Pens/Caps coaches looked amateur.

How long are people going to live off this playoff run? Remember what happened to Edmonton? Habs still squeaked into the playoffs. Nobody seems to remember that.

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07-20-2010, 08:40 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by jpchabby View Post
our forwards are generally quite small, but our defensemen are quite big... Gill, O'byrne, Hamrlik, they're all quite big... and Tinordi is just as huge so at least our d is quite big

to be honest i think our team is generally getting bigger(when you look at the prospects). But being bigger does not imply being able to play physical which is somthing the habs dont have in their arsenal.

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07-20-2010, 08:41 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Kensai Akatsume Ryu View Post
If the team would be big, would you complain about lack of speed and agility?

If the team wins the Cup and needs to clear cap space, would you complain about "Damn PG can't keep his players and foresee the cup by giving long-term contracts"? (See Hawks' forum)

What makes you think the team wouldn't have speed and agility. Some of you refuse to look at your team objectively and it's sad as hell.

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07-20-2010, 08:48 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
What makes you think the team wouldn't have speed and agility. Some of you refuse to look at your team objectively and it's sad as hell.
Jaybee, don't you know that we have the best team in the league here with the best prospects? C'mon.

I was worried that the playoff run (won mostly because of a remarkable goal-tending performance) would lead the organization into a false sense of security. And apparently it has.

We're looking at a team that will need to battle just to make the top 8 again. Oh well, the arena will be sold out...

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07-20-2010, 08:53 AM
  #120
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Jaybee, don't you know that we have the best team in the league here with the best prospects? C'mon.

I was worried that the playoff run (won mostly because of a remarkable goal-tending performance) would lead the organization into a false sense of security. And apparently it has.

We're looking at a team that will need to battle just to make the top 8 again. Oh well, the arena will be sold out...
this is what some leaf fan say. but they actually haven't made the PO since lockout.

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07-20-2010, 08:59 AM
  #121
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Jaybee, don't you know that we have the best team in the league here with the best prospects? C'mon.

I was worried that the playoff run (won mostly because of a remarkable goal-tending performance) would lead the organization into a false sense of security. And apparently it has.

We're looking at a team that will need to battle just to make the top 8 again. Oh well, the arena will be sold out...
Fans are happy with that because they have the 09/10 "playoff run" to tide them over for the next 10 years.

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07-20-2010, 09:05 AM
  #122
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"The one thing that bothers me is the Habs seem so easy to play against"

Yeah...

That's what the Caps and Pens thought last spring

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07-20-2010, 09:08 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by citylife View Post
"The one thing that bothers me is the Habs seem so easy to play against"

Yeah...

That's what the Caps and Pens said last spring
As a capitals fan, what bothers me most about our team is that we are so easy to play against...because we have no defence. Even Umberger predicted this earlier in the season.

As a penguins fan, we are so easy to play with because we have no depth on the wings and questionable goaltending. All team need to do is shut down our centers and we're cooked.

Every team has their flaws. Which ever team is able to exploit the flaws of their opponents the most is the team that wins, hence why Montreal was able to beat Washington and the Penguins.

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07-20-2010, 09:31 AM
  #124
Kensai Akatsume Ryu
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
As a capitals fan, what bothers me most about our team is that we are so easy to play against...because we have no defence. Even Umberger predicted this earlier in the season.

As a penguins fan, we are so easy to play with because we have no depth on the wings and questionable goaltending. All team need to do is shut down our centers and we're cooked.

Every team has their flaws. Which ever team is able to exploit the flaws of their opponents the most is the team that wins, hence why Montreal was able to beat Washington and the Penguins.
There you go

JayBee, your "look at things objectively" is getting very old and quite frankly, you should apply it to yourself first. NO SINGLE NHL TEAM IS PERFECT, otherwise it would win the SC every year. That's the very only truth.

The acquisitions PG has made during the summer, the choices he's made (not resigning Moore, Metro, who, whoever good players, are small and lack toughness, especially for Bottom-6 players) will improve the team's size and toughness. Although, when you build a team, you make choices according to your philosophy. PG and JM have one and they're choosing players according to it.

Now, understand it objectively and accept it as a good hockey fan. Then you'll manage to make analysis that do not look like a childish adult who cannot accept the reality of life: Nothing is perfect but everything is in perpertual change. Personally, I like the actual changes made to this team, and its core I love.

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07-20-2010, 09:34 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Fans are happy with that because they have the 09/10 "playoff run" to tide them over for the next 10 years.
I do not see a "we" when you're speaking of us, the fans. Where are you? A divine being who cannot be put in the same category as we stupid and subjective mortals? You really need to feel different, and the worst of it, it makes you so very common...

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