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We need a top 5 pick.

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Old
12-17-2009, 07:38 PM
  #26
enthropi
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Current NHL Goal Leaders:

1. Marian Gaborik (-2014) 3rd overall
2. Dany Heatley (-2014) 2nd overall
3. Alex Ovechkin (-2016) 1st overall
4. Sidney Crosby (-2013) 1st overall
5. Patrick Marleau (-2010) 2nd overall
6. Dustin Penner (-2012) Undrafted
7. Ilya Kovalchuk (-2010) 1st overall
8. Mike Cammalleri (-2014) 49th overall
9. Steve Stamkos (-2011) 1st overall
10. Jarome Iginla (-2013) 11th overall

The odds of landing a premier player are simply better if you draft top five. See: seven of the ten above.
Still, half of those players have been acquired through trade/FA, so it's not like we need to tank to get some talent. And some people still thought we should never pitch for any of Heatley (prima donna, too much $), Gaborik (injury prone), Marleau (choker, not a true #1C), Kovalchuk (-20000) and Cammaleri (another smurf), while trying to dump Penner anyway they can. So this is a pretty good record of the general grip on reality of HF Oil right there.

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12-17-2009, 08:19 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
Still, half of those players have been acquired through trade/FA, so it's not like we need to tank to get some talent. And some people still thought we should never pitch for any of Heatley (prima donna, too much $), Gaborik (injury prone), Marleau (choker, not a true #1C), Kovalchuk (-20000) and Cammaleri (another smurf), while trying to dump Penner anyway they can. So this is a pretty good record of the general grip on reality of HF Oil right there.
Yeah and we already have a pipeline of some of the best prospects out there.

MPS and Eberle should be better than Kane and Tavares and those guys.

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12-17-2009, 08:26 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by OYLer View Post
We need to turf the scouting staff infection first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scouting's been been pretty good since the lock out. A lot of picks look pretty good right now.

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12-17-2009, 08:33 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
Still, half of those players have been acquired through trade/FA, so it's not like we need to tank to get some talent. And some people still thought we should never pitch for any of Heatley (prima donna, too much $), Gaborik (injury prone), Marleau (choker, not a true #1C), Kovalchuk (-20000) and Cammaleri (another smurf), while trying to dump Penner anyway they can. So this is a pretty good record of the general grip on reality of HF Oil right there.
There's a massive contradiction in statements right there.

How is it in any way realistic that Edmonton had a shot at any one of those players?

The Heatley situation is really the only example you need of how hard it is and is going to be to trade for that level of talent over the foreseeable future.

There absolutely zero chance of Gaborik signing here and Kovy is almost assuredly the same.

There might be the very slimmest of better chances at Marleau, but it's still trying to make things happen on a hope and a prayer. Not to mention he's simply not the same caliber of player as the aforementioned. A similar sentiment for Cammalleri.

I can go on, but the bottom line is I challenge you to show me any kind of realistic scenario where Edmonton picks up a player of this caliber outside the draft. It doesn't exist.

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Old
12-17-2009, 09:06 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Current NHL Goal Leaders:

1. Marian Gaborik (-2014) 3rd overall
2. Dany Heatley (-2014) 2nd overall
3. Alex Ovechkin (-2016) 1st overall
4. Sidney Crosby (-2013) 1st overall
5. Patrick Marleau (-2010) 2nd overall
6. Dustin Penner (-2012) Undrafted
7. Ilya Kovalchuk (-2010) 1st overall
8. Mike Cammalleri (-2014) 49th overall
9. Steve Stamkos (-2011) 1st overall
10. Jarome Iginla (-2013) 11th overall

The odds of landing a premier player are simply better if you draft top five. See: seven of the ten above.
This is one of the worst defenses of an idea I've ever seen. First off this just whows that top 2 draft picks are difference makers. Only one guy is a 3-5 draft pick. The Oilers attempted to acquire Vanek, and Heatley and at one time had Pronger. And considering almost all the teams in the NHL are in possession of one or more top 5 picks it shows that there is zero correlation between top 5 picks and team success. It simply shows that top 5 picks get paid a lot so they end up being spread around the league.

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Old
12-17-2009, 10:40 PM
  #31
enthropi
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Originally Posted by JohnAlexander View Post
There's a massive contradiction in statements right there.

How is it in any way realistic that Edmonton had a shot at any one of those players?

The Heatley situation is really the only example you need of how hard it is and is going to be to trade for that level of talent over the foreseeable future.

There absolutely zero chance of Gaborik signing here and Kovy is almost assuredly the same.

There might be the very slimmest of better chances at Marleau, but it's still trying to make things happen on a hope and a prayer. Not to mention he's simply not the same caliber of player as the aforementioned. A similar sentiment for Cammalleri.

I can go on, but the bottom line is I challenge you to show me any kind of realistic scenario where Edmonton picks up a player of this caliber outside the draft. It doesn't exist.
The odds of getting a franchise player and that he'll stick around long enough to build a winning team from a tanking team aren't all that great either. Lest we forget, the past few have been EXCEPTIONAL draft years, it doesn't look as great in the coming few ones.

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Old
12-17-2009, 10:44 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
What's funny is every single other team in the league has at least one player considered a bonafide stud, a legit, bluechip franchise talent. Edmonton doesn't have a single one. The one wildcard for Edmonton who could be considered bluechip (and who still isn't a goalscorer, what they so badly need) is Magnus Pajaarvi Svensson. If it all pans out he should end up being a good first line talent, but it's gonna be tough for him to manifest any superstar potential he has within him.

I realize nothing is ever sure-fire, 100% guarantee (outside of a select few), but the higher you draft, the better chance you have. Edmonton badly needs one of either Gormsley, Seguin, Hall or Kabanov. Then they'll have a real nice group of forwards to build on in the pipeline if they get one of those.

Love to see the team win, but now my interests and concerns have shifted to the long term. You can see it with many of these emerging teams now, it's never been more clear this is jumpstart a team needs. They need to start building and stocking up for the next 3-4-5 years from now.

Every single team does not have a "blue-chip" prospect.

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Old
12-17-2009, 10:54 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
The odds of getting a franchise player and that he'll stick around long enough to build a winning team from a tanking team aren't all that great either. Lest we forget, the past few have been EXCEPTIONAL draft years, it doesn't look as great in the coming few ones.
So what exactly is your strategy?

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Old
12-17-2009, 10:55 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Studly Wonderbomb View Post
Eh... Scott Thornton, Keith Primeau, and Jeff O'Neill haven't played in the NHL in years. I don't know wtf Chris Gratton is now, either.

I lol'd at Double Penetration Dumont on the Predators.
Haha sorry I kinda put this list together in a hurry. But still, it seems pretty obvious that the majority of teams are able to compete because of their success from either drafting a franchise player or were able to acquire one.

Having said that, Edmonton has tried to acquire elite level talents by trade and free agency but have been unsuccessful. If its going to happen, it will happen through the draft.

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Old
12-17-2009, 10:55 PM
  #35
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If we had just lost that roadtrip like I had planned we'd be 2 points out for 1st overall!

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Old
12-17-2009, 11:12 PM
  #36
enthropi
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Originally Posted by smithboy89 View Post
So what exactly is your strategy?
I'm not the GM, but I guess a balanced approach of going for stars when they are available + try to make the playoffs with the personnel at hand + make sure you draft well? If the team is bad enough to finish last, then so be it. Wouldn't complain if we would get a top pick. Just saying that if we start destroying the team like trading Souray and Lubo like most are imploring, we'll have a long time ahead of us to find players of that caliber ever again. They might not be top-5 picks, but they are damn good.

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Old
12-17-2009, 11:16 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
The odds of getting a franchise player and that he'll stick around long enough to build a winning team from a tanking team aren't all that great either. Lest we forget, the past few have been EXCEPTIONAL draft years, it doesn't look as great in the coming few ones.
Those odds are actually pretty damn good. Even for franchise players. Although I thought we were just talking about premier talent, not necessarily at the franchise level.

They further look especially fantastic when weighed against an essential zero in the alternative you're presenting.

Which years were those again? The top 5 of the draft has been as a whole spectacular as a means of acquiring premier talent for the last 10 years in particular. Where's your proof this is suddenly going to drop off? Hall, Seguin, Fowler, Kabanov & Gormley all sound pretty damn good to me.

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Old
12-17-2009, 11:18 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
I'm not the GM, but I guess a balanced approach of going for stars when they are available + try to make the playoffs with the personnel at hand + make sure you draft well? If the team is bad enough to finish last, then so be it. Wouldn't complain if we would get a top pick. Just saying that if we start destroying the team like trading Souray and Lubo like most are imploring, we'll have a long time ahead of us to find players of that caliber ever again. They might not be top-5 picks, but they are damn good.
Congratulations...you've adopted the same futile strategy the Oilers have employed for years now. What makes you think this will have any decent chance at success into the future?

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12-17-2009, 11:42 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by JohnAlexander View Post
Congratulations...you've adopted the same futile strategy the Oilers have employed for years now. What makes you think this will have any decent chance at success into the future?
I don't know, maybe because we had a few years of high picks that could be meaningful players? Say Gagner and MPS, and Eberle was a great draft pick without being a very high one.

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Old
12-17-2009, 11:52 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
I don't know, maybe because we had a few years of high picks that could be meaningful players? Say Gagner and MPS, and Eberle was a great draft pick without being a very high one.
Is that better than what's going to be boasted by all the teams already ahead of us in the standings over the next 5 years? How about STL and ANA below us? How do Gagner Eberle and MPS realistically get us past and set us up for the future better than the majority of these teams?

I don't see it.

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Old
12-18-2009, 12:02 AM
  #41
enthropi
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Originally Posted by JohnAlexander View Post
Is that better than what's going to be boasted by all the teams already ahead of us in the standings over the next 5 years? How about STL and ANA below us? How do Gagner Eberle and MPS realistically get us past and set us up for the future better than the majority of these teams?

I don't see it.
Sold! let's dive.

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