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Controversial Statement: the 09\10 Predators are a better team than the 06\07 Preds

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Old
12-18-2009, 01:05 AM
  #1
barrytrotzsneck
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Controversial Statement: the 09\10 Predators are a better team than the 06\07 Preds

Obviously, on paper, the talent disparity is huge(but hockey isn't played on paper, it's played inside TV sets, to quote Doctor No)--especially when you realize our THIRD LINE was Hartnell Legwand Radulov...but if you go solely on intangibles, work ethic, grit, and the drive to win..this team blows that one away. I remember remarking at several points back in those days that I felt like the guy with the 90,000 Benz that was secretly living in poverty to pay for it. We won games on talent, but the effort was often poor. We'd win in spite of our work, not because of it. When the playoffs rolled around, and that sort of thing couldn't be masked as easily, we got rolled once again by the Sharks--totally exposed.

I think this team is much closer to what we saw in 03-04..a team that might not have the most talent, but is capable of beating anyone on any given night by flat-out outworking them. But...while the focus is the same, this team obviously has a lot more talent than that one did.

I hope we can keep it up--because I think that this could finally be the team to make some waves in the playoffs. I think we're a top six forward away from being a truly scary team.

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12-18-2009, 01:43 AM
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Webersmashpuck
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I was coming on here to propose this same exact statement!

You mention the heart, but the talent isn't that far off. Arnott and even Dumont are playing better than that year, Hornqvist > Radulov and our 4th line can play. Our defense has matured and seems to be more talented as well.

Our heart is the key though, Smithson has grown into a leader and it seems no one will give up. The other thing is depth, yes we had several good players, but nothing underneath, right now Jones and Hornqvist could fill in on the top two lines and we would not miss a beat. Thurresson, Wilson, Spaling, O'Reilly, and Santorelli are quality depth as well.

Im excited about this team but still worried about getting to the playoffs because a lot can happen between now and April.

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12-18-2009, 02:05 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webersmashpuck View Post
Im excited about this team but still worried about getting to the playoffs because a lot can happen between now and April.
That's the scary part. With so many players in contention for the Olympics this year and the compressed schedule, this is far from over...

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12-18-2009, 02:29 AM
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predfan24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webersmashpuck View Post
I was coming on here to propose this same exact statement!

You mention the heart, but the talent isn't that far off. Arnott and even Dumont are playing better than that year, Hornqvist > Radulov and our 4th line can play. Our defense has matured and seems to be more talented as well.

Our heart is the key though, Smithson has grown into a leader and it seems no one will give up. The other thing is depth, yes we had several good players, but nothing underneath, right now Jones and Hornqvist could fill in on the top two lines and we would not miss a beat. Thurresson, Wilson, Spaling, O'Reilly, and Santorelli are quality depth as well.

Im excited about this team but still worried about getting to the playoffs because a lot can happen between now and April.

I don't know about that. I LOVE Hornqvist's game. He is really coming along nicely. I know Rads was an immature punk but he had elite offensive talent, even if he didn't know how to fully use it properly yet, and was getting better every year. I agree with everything else you said.

Our lines are so odd but they are working. I mean Smithson-Leggy-Ward?, even more off is Dumont-Goc- Hornqvist. But hey if it works it works. I'll give it to Feb and if we are still playing this well and staying up near the top of WC then I will agree 100 percent this team can do some damage. At this point though I don't want to get my hopes up and still have have the simple goal of making the playoffs. The west is too strong this year. A bad 6-7 game stretch and we could be back on the outside looking in very easily.

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12-18-2009, 02:35 AM
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Also, let's not forgot a lot of unexpected things that have happened for us that we can't necessarily count on all year. Jones scoring four goals in 4 games, Goc scoring, Toots getting on the scoreboard. All these things are great I just need to see a little more consistency throughout the season before I truely believe we are "for real"

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12-18-2009, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
Also, let's not forgot a lot of unexpected things that have happened for us that we can't necessarily count on all year. Jones scoring four goals in 4 games, Goc scoring, Toots getting on the scoreboard. All these things are great I just need to see a little more consistency throughout the season before I truely believe we are "for real"
But that's just my point. Every night, someone new is the hero. Our top lines haven't produced the way we'd like them to, but when they're off, someone steps up.

I know that Trotz loved his grinders...Fiddler, Nichol, Bonk, DeVries...but replacing those guys with bottom sixers that can actually chip in goals might be the biggest reason that this year's team is better than last year's. We trimmed a lot of fat, this offseason.

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12-18-2009, 08:09 AM
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I'm of the opinion that this team is alot like the 03/04 squad, but with more upside.

In other words, the players on the squad have potential to grow, where the 03/04 were more limited.

as of right now, I'd think we're a player or 2 away from being a top team.

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12-18-2009, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
Also, let's not forgot a lot of unexpected things that have happened for us that we can't necessarily count on all year. Jones scoring four goals in 4 games, Goc scoring, Toots getting on the scoreboard. All these things are great I just need to see a little more consistency throughout the season before I truely believe we are "for real"
+1.

I'm pleasantly surprised. I didn't think we were a 14th place team but still tend to view us as a 6th-10th that is on a strong run. The key difference is, for reasons you mentioned, this could be a lower seed team that actually wins a round.

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12-18-2009, 09:03 AM
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i would think that a very possible move to make this team better would be something like a 2nd and 5th to Toronto for Ponikarovski. He will put 20 goals in every season and can play with anyone. Toronto would need the picks. I have watched toronto for a long time and getting Ponikarovski would be a great increase. Even someone like Matt Stajan. Stajan will become a Point per game player but is still amturing. These two guys could be had for 2 picks and a guy that is decent. These guys can help any team and with them becoming UFA`S you can easily resign for something like 3 million each and are great players.

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12-18-2009, 09:20 AM
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i would think that a very possible move to make this team better would be something like a 2nd and 5th to Toronto for Ponikarovski. He will put 20 goals in every season and can play with anyone. Toronto would need the picks. I have watched toronto for a long time and getting Ponikarovski would be a great increase. Even someone like Matt Stajan. Stajan will become a Point per game player but is still amturing. These two guys could be had for 2 picks and a guy that is decent. These guys can help any team and with them becoming UFA`S you can easily resign for something like 3 million each and are great players.
We almost had him at the deadline last year. Poile didn't get the deal in on time.

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12-18-2009, 09:38 AM
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yea he is a great guy him and/or Stajan would be great

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12-18-2009, 10:04 AM
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Why would Toronto trade Poni for a second and fifth? That seems too low to me, he's a legit player having a good year. And he's not quite thirty, so no reason they can't see him still being there when they have a strong team. Unless they plan on stinking for another four or five years even with some pieces to build with, such as Kessel, Stajan, Schenn (and Ponikarovsky).

I wouldn't mind either of those guys though.


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12-18-2009, 10:06 AM
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Why would Toronto trade Poni for a second and fifth? That seems ridiculous to me, he's a legit player having a good year. And he's not quite thirty, so no reason they can't see him still being there when they have a strong team. Unless they plan on stinking for another four or five years even with Kessel (and Ponikarovsky).
You would think but him being a UFA and all everyone in Toronto seems to have him being traded at the deadline. With no 1st or 2nd and a team not good enough for the playoffs any picks would be a good deal. And he will probably want about 3-3.5 million a season. Toronto can`t afford it. They have Stajan,White,Gustavsson,Mitchell,Kulemin all to resign and gaing raises.

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12-18-2009, 10:14 AM
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Hmm, the UFA makes a big difference. Now I think the price is a bit too high, because it becomes only a rental. Not too bad though, maybe it's about right.. A guy with his size could help us. He'd be an upgrade over Scatchard... lol

But who's spot does he take? Jones on the third line? Erats on the first? Maybe Smithsons if they want Leggy's line to pop in more goals.

Last year hearing the "we almost had Ponikarovsky" talk made me joke that Poile had a weak form of autism, all the times he seems a bit confused on trades and contracts..


Last edited by OpenWheel: 12-18-2009 at 10:19 AM.
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12-18-2009, 11:29 AM
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Hmm, the UFA makes a big difference. Now I think the price is a bit too high, because it becomes only a rental. Not too bad though, maybe it's about right.. A guy with his size could help us. He'd be an upgrade over Scatchard... lol

But who's spot does he take? Jones on the third line? Erats on the first? Maybe Smithsons if they want Leggy's line to pop in more goals.

Last year hearing the "we almost had Ponikarovsky" talk made me joke that Poile had a weak form of autism, all the times he seems a bit confused on trades and contracts..
Poni would take Smithson's place, I would guess.

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12-18-2009, 01:26 PM
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I don't watch many Leafs games. How is Ponikarovsky's defense?

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12-18-2009, 02:07 PM
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he is reliable on d not out of this world but his career plus minus has been a plus for his career and we have stunk for a while

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12-18-2009, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
Also, let's not forgot a lot of unexpected things that have happened for us that we can't necessarily count on all year. Jones scoring four goals in 4 games, Goc scoring, Toots getting on the scoreboard. All these things are great I just need to see a little more consistency throughout the season before I truely believe we are "for real"
At least one of those won't get a chance to happen because Weber broke Tootoo's foot, but I think Jones can easily score north of 10 goals if he keeps playing like this.

I realize we're talking about intangibles here, but we actually do stack up fairly well with the 06/07 team on paper:

Kariya (76) - Legwand (63) - Erat (57)
Sullivan (60) - Arnott (54) - Dumont (66)
Hartnell (39) - Fiddler (26) - Radulov (37)
Tootoo (9) - Nichol (13) - Smithson (12)
Hordichuk (4), Vasicek (13)

Timonen (55) - Weber (40)
Zidlicky (30) - Suter (24)
Hamhuis (20) - Zanon (8)


(Projected final numbers for 09-10; lines are not meant to reflect current on-ice lineup)
Sullivan (56) - Arnott (58) - Dumont (62)
Hörnqvist (41) - Legwand (51) - Erat (52)
Ward (39) - Goc (22) - Tootoo (31)
Smithson (14) - Scatchard (18) - Jones (20)
Belak (8), Spaling (N/A)

Weber (46) - Suter (43)
Hamhuis (28) - Franson (20)
Klein (16) - Bouillon (14)
Sulzer (N/A)

That's not really that bad of a matchup. We're obviously missing that Kariya-type game breaker presence, and we do indeed have need of a third line center again, but the matchup does work out to be fairly even on paper, and like Neck was saying, I think this year's squad has more of a workman-like attitude about them than the 06-07 team.

The one thing we need to avoid is another 4-5 game losing streak. One run of bad games like we had early in the season will put us outside the playoff picture. The West is just that tight this year.

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Old
12-18-2009, 03:43 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Predaleafs View Post
yea he is a great guy him and/or Stajan would be great
I would love to have both. It would give us some much-needed depth at all forward positions.

Sullivan-Arnott-Erat/Dumont
Ponikarovsky-Legwand-Ward
Dumont/Erat-Stajan-Tootoo/Jones (likely Jones)
Smithson-Goc-Jones/Tootoo (likely Tootoo)

The question is, how much would that cost us? I can't imagine Burke would trade them away for a handful of mid-round picks.

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12-18-2009, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
I don't know about that. I LOVE Hornqvist's game. He is really coming along nicely. I know Rads was an immature punk but he had elite offensive talent, even if he didn't know how to fully use it properly yet, and was getting better every year. I agree with everything else you said.

Our lines are so odd but they are working. I mean Smithson-Leggy-Ward?, even more off is Dumont-Goc- Hornqvist. But hey if it works it works. I'll give it to Feb and if we are still playing this well and staying up near the top of WC then I will agree 100 percent this team can do some damage. At this point though I don't want to get my hopes up and still have have the simple goal of making the playoffs. The west is too strong this year. A bad 6-7 game stretch and we could be back on the outside looking in very easily.
The thing about the Hornqvist vs Radulov is that I don't think has Radulov's potential, but defensively Hornqvist is better, and right now he is on pace to top Radulovs totals of 06-07.

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Old
12-19-2009, 10:44 AM
  #21
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Records after 35 games:
06/07 - 23-9-3
09/10 - 21-11-3

Amazing how close it is. If we can just avoid our annual post trade deadline meltdown, we should be golden.

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