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A. Kostitsyn to Edmonton

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Old
12-21-2009, 12:09 PM
  #51
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wario Lemieux View Post
Cogliano isn't half the player Kostitsyn is.
Maybe we'll have to wait 2 years.. when Cogliano is the same age as AK is now.. than maybe we can make a fair assesment. Right now i'd agree with you though, and i'll also agree with some of the comments made on Cogliano, that he is soft and avoids contact, but his speed coming off the wing is extremely effective for his offensive game. This year he's been treated like crap and hasn't been given any opportunity on the 3rd line with Moreau and Potulny. If he is still with the Oilers next year I think it would be more fair to compare the two at the same age.

As for Kostitsyn.. habs fans just stop with your outrageous overrating of players. AK is not worth Penner and the Oilers are not going to deal Grebeshkov and Brule or something crazy that was mentioned for Kostitsyn.

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12-21-2009, 12:12 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
As for Kostitsyn.. habs fans just stop with your outrageous overrating of players. AK is not worth Penner and the Oilers are not going to deal Grebeshkov and Brule or something crazy that was mentioned for Kostitsyn.
Then you simply can not afford him.

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12-21-2009, 12:15 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by williamshut View Post
you're ****ing hilarious.
Thanks!

Seriously though. Montreal needs a top 6 fwd, why would we trade our top LW for a smaller fwd?

Don't get me wrong, I like Cogliano and Brule. I think they'll be solid NHLers. But AK is a little better, streaky but better. He has the size we need up front and does play physical. So the only way AK leaves Mtl is if the return was to upgrade our top LW. Penner is an upgrade, but again only slightly (maybe by 5 goals in a season).

Call me a homer if you wish but at least I seem to have a better grasp of player values and of the english language.

Next time think before you spew you foul mouth

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12-21-2009, 12:16 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
Listen guy, you want to talk about humiliation? Listen to yourself then, there IS NO COMPARISON between Brule and Kostitsyn. NONE. Brule has always been a small guy who loves to play in the corners but he never sustained that over a prolonged period of time even in juniors where he was a man amongst boys. A safe guarantee is that he will probably re-injure himself, let alone be worth far() more than Kostitsyn. Do you realize he's never scored more than 13 goals in a professional league? Talk about a homer.
You're embarresing yourself. Im kind of confused as to why you keep avoiding Brule's 2009-2010 season BTW.. Brule's size means absolutely nothing the way he plays the game.

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12-21-2009, 12:17 PM
  #55
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The last thing the Habs need are more smurfs like Cogliano, Gagne and Brule. Its for that reason that the Oil and Habs are terrible trading partners.

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12-21-2009, 12:21 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
The last thing the Habs need are more smurfs like Cogliano, Gagne and Brule. Its for that reason that the Oil and Habs are terrible trading partners.
Once again Brule looks like one but he doesn't play like one. And yes, we are terrible trading partners.

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12-21-2009, 12:25 PM
  #57
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Mtl and Edmonton are descent trading partners. But only because fwds are not what each other are after.

Mtl has a goalie that might be of use to Edmonton IF they feel that their current duo isn't up to the task of making the playoffs without the Bulinwall.

If that were the case then I'm sure that some package deal can be made where Halak goes to Edm and Mtl recieves a dman still under contract for 2 or more years as that is what will be Mtl's biggest need by next season.

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12-21-2009, 12:32 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
Once again Brule looks like one but he doesn't play like one. And yes, we are terrible trading partners.
Much can be said for Sergei Kostitsyn. But regardless they have the size of a smurf. (Well Brule more-so than Sergei).

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12-21-2009, 12:33 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Mtl and Edmonton are descent trading partners. But only because fwds are not what each other are after.

Mtl has a goalie that might be of use to Edmonton IF they feel that their current duo isn't up to the task of making the playoffs without the Bulinwall.

If that were the case then I'm sure that some package deal can be made where Halak goes to Edm and Mtl recieves a dman still under contract for 2 or more years as that is what will be Mtl's biggest need by next season.
Next season the Habs will have to find room for Weber/Carle and/or Subban. Under contract we have Markov, Hammer, Spacek, Gill, Gorges and O'Byrne. Why in gods green earth would we trade for another d-man? Unless the trade involves Edmonton taking Hamrlik... Again why?

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12-21-2009, 12:48 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Next season the Habs will have to find room for Weber/Carle and/or Subban. Under contract we have Markov, Hammer, Spacek, Gill, Gorges and O'Byrne. Why in gods green earth would we trade for another d-man? Unless the trade involves Edmonton taking Hamrlik... Again why?
Well, this year we have too many starting goalies, next year it'll be too many 2nd pairing dmen. Why not pick up one with more than one more year under contract (for a reasonable cap hit) leaving more $$$ to resign Markov. Then you can use the extra dmen you no longer want to a team that is hurting for dmen for a top 6 fwd or a high draft pick.


Just long term planning is all.

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12-21-2009, 01:00 PM
  #61
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Well, this year we have too many starting goalies, next year it'll be too many 2nd pairing dmen. Why not pick up one with more than one more year under contract (for a reasonable cap hit) leaving more $$$ to resign Markov. Then you can use the extra dmen you no longer want to a team that is hurting for dmen for a top 6 fwd or a high draft pick.


Just long term planning is all.
Because you want to see the development of Gorges/Obyrne as well as Weber/Carle/Subban before committing any further dollars to d-men. In an ideal world we would be able to "upgrade" a guy like Gill or Mara but lets face it - that ain't happening. Our biggest concern moving forward will be cap-issues especially when you consider how much money Plekanec will be making next season. We need to keep cheap servicable d-men like Gorges/OB and Weber/Subban/Carles in the fold because they are cheap.

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12-21-2009, 01:03 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Because you want to see the development of Gorges/Obyrne as well as Weber/Carle/Subban before committing any further dollars to d-men. In an ideal world we would be able to "upgrade" a guy like Gill or Mara but lets face it - that ain't happening. Our biggest concern moving forward will be cap-issues especially when you consider how much money Plekanec will be making next season. We need to keep cheap servicable d-men like Gorges/OB and Weber/Subban/Carles in the fold because they are cheap.
I don't understand why you want "upgrade" Gill. The guy is the best PK'er I've ever seen on the Habs. He's been playing very solid hockey.

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12-21-2009, 01:05 PM
  #63
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I don't understand why you want "upgrade" Gill. The guy is the best PK'er I've ever seen on the Habs. He's been playing very solid hockey.
He has been playing solid - especially on the PK but he's still a liability due to his mobility issues and that isn't going to improve. I see Gill as a stop-gap solution until the likes of OByrne improve and reach their potential.

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12-21-2009, 01:06 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
You're embarresing yourself. Im kind of confused as to why you keep avoiding Brule's 2009-2010 season BTW.. Brule's size means absolutely nothing the way he plays the game.
Oh I keep avoiding it now do it? As if there is something to talk about. What are you trying to prove exactly with this 2009-2010 season? That Brule > Kostitsyn? Move on, and quit acting like a kid throwing around words like "ambarassing" when you have no idea wtf you're talking about. Brule's size means nothing the way he plays the game - uhhhhh yes it does, those injuries must be all a coincidence?

But you'll hang on to this year though and I don't care since in your opinion he might be better because of 30 some games, when he's barely able to keep up now that AK is in full swing. How long did it take for him to crack a lineup again? On a team who is last in the NHL.


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12-21-2009, 01:08 PM
  #65
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Oh I keep avoiding it now do it? As if there is something to talk about. What are you trying to prove exactly with this 2009-2010 season? That Brule > Kostitsyn? Move on, and quit acting like a kid throwing around words like "ambarassing" when you have no idea wtf you're talking about.
LOL!!

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12-21-2009, 02:07 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post




Yes beause Andrei is a 15-20 goal scorer



Listen guy, you want to talk about humiliation? Listen to yourself then, there IS NO COMPARISON between Brule and Kostitsyn. NONE. Brule has always been a small guy who loves to play in the corners but he never sustained that over a prolonged period of time even in juniors where he was a man amongst boys. A safe guarantee is that he will probably re-injure himself, let alone be worth far() more than Kostitsyn. Do you realize he's never scored more than 13 goals in a professional league? Talk about a homer.
did you even read my post? one more thing you have to realize is how you are really attracted to style over substance- a problem all fans have with their own players (ex. oilers and hemsky). however, when looked at from an outsider's position said player's value is much lower than a fan of the team would set. (ex once again hemsky with the oilers fans- we would not accept anything below a star player for him, even though he's not worth nearly that to other teams). before you throw around the "homer" realize that you are one too. it's very difficult not to be.
and "a man amongst boys"? come on. that doesnt even make sense. perhaps you were going for the "boy amongst men"?-which wouldnt make sense either. you cannot honestly say you watched him consistently as a junior though. i didnt either, but i dont think he would have been chosen 6th overall if he was bad in junior. as for the 13 goals in a pro league thing, that was in 39 games, not a full season. he was on pace for about 27 goals and 50 pts. you sir are just as much of a homer as i am. deal with it.

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12-21-2009, 02:52 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Because you want to see the development of Gorges/Obyrne as well as Weber/Carle/Subban before committing any further dollars to d-men. In an ideal world we would be able to "upgrade" a guy like Gill or Mara but lets face it - that ain't happening. Our biggest concern moving forward will be cap-issues especially when you consider how much money Plekanec will be making next season. We need to keep cheap servicable d-men like Gorges/OB and Weber/Subban/Carles in the fold because they are cheap.
I'll give you that. I just hope Carle and Weber pan out. I`m pretty sure Subban (who`s tearing up the AHL right now) is going to make the team next year and may even get a call up later this season. I love Gorges and his 1.1 mil (one more season then he`ll likely ask for 2.5 per) and O`B is starting to really round out into a no.4-5 dman.

I just hope that Pleks signs for 4mil or less otherwise we`re in trouble.

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12-21-2009, 03:26 PM
  #68
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well then why do you stupid ****ing people keep bringing ak up in trade proposals? nobody wants him for the price you habs fans set. cogliano is one oiler who does not deliberately avoid contact. gagner, o'sullivan, and gilbert do that. he is definately not a big hitter (he's only 184 lbs), but he does not shy away from a hit, and his wheels allow him the luxury of not having to be in that situation as often as most. sure he's struggling this year, but he has 2 seasons of decent point production from a 3rd liner (18 goals 27 assists as a rookie, and then 18 goals 20 assists). think of it this way: mike comrie is a proven 20 and even 30 goal scorer. would you give up the equivalent of brule and cogliano for him? i highly doubt it. as for brule and Kostitsyn point comparisons, Brule has 9-13 in 32 games, and AK has 9-12 in 34. to me, it looks like AK had one breakout season with 27 goals and 26 assists, and other than that, hasnt done too much (23-18 arent great numbers). sure he's flashy and a pretty good hitter and has the potential to be a star, but he's nowhere near this kind of value. lots of guys have star potential. only a fraction turn that potential into production. I have doubts that Ak will realize this potential. as for the hitting part, again look at size- AK is 214 lbs, and brule's only 180. he should be able to throw around his weight better with that extra 34 pounds. brule will be worth far more than ak by the end of the season. i can guarantee you that.
1--I never swore at you or insulted you, act like a grown-up and be civil.

2--I never proposed to send AK to Edmonton. Ever.

3--I never said AK was, or was not, worth Brule AND Cogliano. I said that I would never trade him for EITHER of them 1-for-1, and gave good reasons why. I do not overvalue AK, but I don't undervalue him either.

4--I have repeatedly stated (in this thread and others) that Edmonton is not a good partner for Montreal because we both have too many smurfs and need bigger forwards. Neither Cogliano nor Brule address OUR NEEDS. AK would be far better for you, than either Brule or Cogliano would be for us. AK is the type of forward we need more of:a goal scorer with size and grit. Neither Brule or Cogliano fits the size and grit part.

5--Keep the discussion civil. I come here for fun, not to be insulted or cursed at. Neither of us are actual GMs, and are simply giving opinions. Mine have validity to me, just like yours do to you. Keep it civil.

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12-21-2009, 04:04 PM
  #69
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It's called a ''slow start'', his season has started 13 games ago when he put with Plekanec and Cammalleri, since that game he has 15 points and he's only getting better, he ain't going nowhere.
I think teams should stay away from players that have slow starts.

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12-21-2009, 04:11 PM
  #70
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I think teams should stay away from players that have slow starts.
Lol Andrei always starts slow but he always manages to score 20+. So yes alot of teams would take him even with slow starts.

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12-21-2009, 04:18 PM
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Lol Andrei always starts slow but he always manages to score 20+. So yes alot of teams would take him even with slow starts.
They might take him, once he starts playing well. When he cools off or starts slow, people are more than willing to trade him away. Andrei is that player. Hot right now, hes suddenly untouchable to Habs fans, cools off and hes in almost every proposal (remember all the K bros proposals from earlier in the season?). I rather not try to trade for a player thats streaking right now, but could cool off and go for stretches of 4 points in 20 games. Simply not the philosophy of the smart shopper.

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12-21-2009, 04:45 PM
  #72
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well then why do you stupid ****ing people keep bringing ak up in trade proposals? nobody wants him for the price you habs fans set. cogliano is one oiler who does not deliberately avoid contact. gagner, o'sullivan, and gilbert do that. he is definately not a big hitter (he's only 184 lbs), but he does not shy away from a hit, and his wheels allow him the luxury of not having to be in that situation as often as most. sure he's struggling this year, but he has 2 seasons of decent point production from a 3rd liner (18 goals 27 assists as a rookie, and then 18 goals 20 assists). think of it this way: mike comrie is a proven 20 and even 30 goal scorer. would you give up the equivalent of brule and cogliano for him? i highly doubt it. as for brule and Kostitsyn point comparisons, Brule has 9-13 in 32 games, and AK has 9-12 in 34. to me, it looks like AK had one breakout season with 27 goals and 26 assists, and other than that, hasnt done too much (23-18 arent great numbers). sure he's flashy and a pretty good hitter and has the potential to be a star, but he's nowhere near this kind of value. lots of guys have star potential. only a fraction turn that potential into production. I have doubts that Ak will realize this potential. as for the hitting part, again look at size- AK is 214 lbs, and brule's only 180. he should be able to throw around his weight better with that extra 34 pounds. brule will be worth far more than ak by the end of the season. i can guarantee you that.
Because, my mentally challenged friend, an OILER fan started the thread. WE DON'T WANT TO TRADE HIM.

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12-21-2009, 04:57 PM
  #73
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Actually!

Quote:
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They might take him, once he starts playing well. When he cools off or starts slow, people are more than willing to trade him away. Andrei is that player. Hot right now, hes suddenly untouchable to Habs fans, cools off and hes in almost every proposal (remember all the K bros proposals from earlier in the season?). I rather not try to trade for a player thats streaking right now, but could cool off and go for stretches of 4 points in 20 games. Simply not the philosophy of the smart shopper.
There are only 2 or 3 "people" (who might all be the same guy) who keep trying to trade AK:LaPierrreforCaptain, Gamblor, and someone I forget. Most Habs fans are happy with AK and do not want to give him away for peanuts. I would rather a "streaky" guy like AK who has almost the same # of points as Brule (does that make HIM streaky"??), than a small guy like Cogliano who has as many total points as our "streaky" guy has goals.

I wouldn't say AK is untouchable, but we would want a significant return on a cap friendly young, proven 20+ goal scorer with some size and a willingness to hit. Everyone who loves the Oilers keep telling Habs fans about how Brule has "potential", but refuse to understand that AK has not met his "potential" and is also young. Brule also has a worse injury history than AK, and that won't necessarily get better playing in the NHL where hits are harder than anywhere else.

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12-21-2009, 05:01 PM
  #74
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Because, my mentally challenged friend, an OILER fan started the thread. WE DON'T WANT TO TRADE HIM.
LOL. I forgot that this thread was started by an Oilers fan (although I don't think williamshut is mentally challenged, just angry about something)!! Thank you for reminding me, and others that this tread was the product of an Oilers fan actively trying to get AK for the Oilers...

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12-21-2009, 05:10 PM
  #75
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Because, my mentally challenged friend, an OILER fan started the thread. WE DON'T WANT TO TRADE HIM.
there's no way a REAL oilers fan would start a thread of this much stupidity. and how things have changed since the start of the year. It's gone from "he's terrible and needs to be traded along with his brother" to "WE DONT WANT TO TRADE HIM"
just read through this: http://forum.canadiens.com/index.php...c=23519&st=240

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