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Old
01-07-2010, 02:52 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
IMO; Atl would listen if you put something like this on the table
weber or suter+ellis
wilson
o'reilly
1st and 2 2nds
bottom line, hes top 5 in the world, your gonna have to give 3 of ur top prospects for him...is it worth it?
That's ridiculous by any standard. No way Poile would make a move of that caliber.

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01-07-2010, 03:19 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Milly79 View Post
That's ridiculous by any standard. No way Poile would make a move of that caliber.
my exact point.....whoever gets him will have given up somethin similar tho;
a player that can play now, 2 prospects a first and 2 2nds, or 2 1sts
to me, weber is un-touchable so, lets say hamhuis/suter, 2 prospects and 2 good draft picks....wayyyy to much to give for a potential rental player...its worth it if you hold it high in june....but theres only a few teams that have a legit shot as well as trade bait that could land kovy....


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01-07-2010, 04:58 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
IMO; Atl would listen if you put something like this on the table
weber or suter+ellis
wilson
o'reilly
1st and 2 2nds
bottom line, hes top 5 in the world, your gonna have to give 3 of ur top prospects for him...is it worth it?
Nobody will make that kind of offer unless they get to throw eight figures at Kovalchuk.

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01-07-2010, 07:57 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Nashville will NOT make a move to get ovy. Right now they have a blue collar team and it matches the personality of the coaching staff. Hornqvist is turning into Holmstrom jr and would be a rather big loss for the Preds. Kovy is too expensive to fit for the team. This team could pick up a mid-level goal scorer this is the type of move I could see Nashville making. Nashville has a solid core but it's special teams are hurting. If there was a way to pick up a PP specialist that would be great.
Unfortunately, I cannot ever a situation where Nashville will ever have a player of Kovalchuk's ability unless we draft him or somehow obtain him well before his years of service qualify him for unrestricted free agency.

The amount of our budget that we would have to allocate to one player would cripple the rest of the team. It'd be a bit like buying a Ferrari V10 and dropping into an '86 Chevy Nova you find in the junkyard.

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01-07-2010, 08:48 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Nobody will make that kind of offer unless they get to throw eight figures at Kovalchuk.
well see!! anyone who trades for kovalchuk this season, WILL give up 2-3 top prospects 2 high draft picks and potentially roster player(s)
its a steep price to pay unless you really have a shot this year...

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01-07-2010, 08:50 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
my exact point.....whoever gets him will have given up somethin similar tho;
a player that can play now, 2 prospects a first and 2 2nds, or 2 1sts
to me, weber is un-touchable so, lets say hamhuis/suter, 2 prospects and 2 good draft picks....wayyyy to much to give for a potential rental player...its worth it if you hold it high in june....but theres only a few teams that have a legit shot as well as trade bait that could land kovy....
Look at what a signed Joe Thornton got Boston:

Marco Sturm
Brad Stuart
Wayne Primeau

A signed Heatley(even one that demanded a trade):

Milan Michalek
Jonathan Cheechoo
2nd round pick

There hasn't been a trade the magnitude of what you're describing since Lindros. Kovalchuk is a UFA to be. This isn't EHM where you're having to convince an AI GM to match star-point values. 3 top prospects, 2 top picks plus whatever else? If that's what Atlanta is asking, there is not a single GM in the league that would pay that price.

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01-07-2010, 08:50 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
my exact point.....whoever gets him will have given up somethin similar tho;
a player that can play now, 2 prospects a first and 2 2nds, or 2 1sts
to me, weber is un-touchable so, lets say hamhuis/suter, 2 prospects and 2 good draft picks....wayyyy to much to give for a potential rental player...its worth it if you hold it high in june....but theres only a few teams that have a legit shot as well as trade bait that could land kovy....
What I am no sure that you are getting is that Suter is the same, if not more, untouchable than Weber...

So if I were you, I would be hoping to get Weber/Suter, Ellis/Franson/Blum, 1 prospect, and 2 good draft picks. Thornton is an elite player and it didn't take THAT much to get him.



EDIT: Great minds btneck

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01-07-2010, 09:53 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Look at what a signed Joe Thornton got Boston:

Marco Sturm
Brad Stuart
Wayne Primeau

A signed Heatley(even one that demanded a trade):

Milan Michalek
Jonathan Cheechoo
2nd round pick

There hasn't been a trade the magnitude of what you're describing since Lindros. Kovalchuk is a UFA to be. This isn't EHM where you're having to convince an AI GM to match star-point values. 3 top prospects, 2 top picks plus whatever else? If that's what Atlanta is asking, there is not a single GM in the league that would pay that price.
brad stuart was supposed to be the main peice going back and he has underacheived greatly, and ottawa took the best deal they could get because heatley forced their hand...
both those deals include 2 or 3 nhl players....
kovy is top talent, top 5 in the world...good luck getting him for a group of 3rd liners......

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01-07-2010, 09:55 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
What I am no sure that you are getting is that Suter is the same, if not more, untouchable than Weber...

So if I were you, I would be hoping to get Weber/Suter, Ellis/Franson/Blum, 1 prospect, and 2 good draft picks. Thornton is an elite player and it didn't take THAT much to get him.



EDIT: Great minds btneck
thronton was also underacheiving at the time of deal...
and no trade(with me as nsh gm) would include shea weber..suter is good nhl d man, but seriously? guys like weber who can play offense too are invaluble....its a pretty short list of 20 goal scoring d man...you guys have one, you would be crazy to get rid of him, even with ellis waiting in the wings....
so hamhuis or suter is what i meant, 2 prospects and 2 draft picks..

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01-07-2010, 09:57 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
...because heatley forced their hand...
Isn't that pretty much what Kovy is doing too? If he wont resign, he is pretty much forcing them to trade him to get at least something back.

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01-07-2010, 10:17 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by cjerina View Post
Isn't that pretty much what Kovy is doing too? If he wont resign, he is pretty much forcing them to trade him to get at least something back.
no, not really...hes exercising his right to free agency....atl would be best to try and get a return on him if he isnt going to re-sign...
heatley signed a 7 year deal and then demanded a trade...
much different...

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01-07-2010, 10:49 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
thronton was also underacheiving at the time of deal...
and no trade(with me as nsh gm) would include shea weber..suter is good nhl d man, but seriously? guys like weber who can play offense too are invaluble....its a pretty short list of 20 goal scoring d man...you guys have one, you would be crazy to get rid of him, even with ellis waiting in the wings....
so hamhuis or suter is what i meant, 2 prospects and 2 draft picks..
Yeah, what do we know about Suter and Weber. We just see them play every single game.

Read, and read well: Suter is every bit as good and important to the Predators as Weber. Don't patronize us by acting like you somehow know more about them than we do. It's one thing to make outlandish trade proposals(take it over to the trade board, if the uneducated hicks on the Preds board can't convince you) and see if you think a package of Suter, Ellis, Wilson, O'Reilly and a first and second round pick are what it would take to get Kovalchuk for 2 or 3 months. Please, do that for me.

I wouldn't trade Suter ALONE for Kovalchuk's rental services...even if we hoped to re-sign him. The fact that he's reportedly asking for 11 million dollars a year (which he's not worth, by the way) and playing such hardball with Atlanta deters me from the headache. Chew on that.

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01-07-2010, 10:58 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
BUT, he could be an asset of value, that could return prospects from a team like washington who would be appealing to him, and also a team with prospects that could be spared for a chance at a stanley cup now....

Kovy will demand a huge pkg of prospects/picks, that steep price should only be paid by a team with a chance to win this year...
and knowing what i know about don waddell, he would want shea weber in return...and i donno about you guys, but i would love to have him on my team, so if thats what your willing to give up...

IMO; Atl would listen if you put something like this on the table
weber or suter+ellis
wilson
o'reilly
1st and 2 2nds
bottom line, hes top 5 in the world, your gonna have to give 3 of ur top prospects for him...is it worth it?
This is comical. O'Reilly, a 2nd and 4th would be my best offer. And top 5 in the world, he's not top 5 in the NHL.

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01-07-2010, 11:10 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
IMO; Atl would listen if you put something like this on the table
weber or suter+ellis
wilson
o'reilly
1st and 2 2nds
bottom line, hes top 5 in the world, your gonna have to give 3 of ur top prospects for him...is it worth it?
And Nashville walks away quickly. No way would Nashville even entertain a trade like this for a UFA rental.

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01-07-2010, 11:12 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Yeah, what do we know about Suter and Weber. We just see them play every single game.

Read, and read well: Suter is every bit as good and important to the Predators as Weber. Don't patronize us by acting like you somehow know more about them than we do. It's one thing to make outlandish trade proposals(take it over to the trade board, if the uneducated hicks on the Preds board can't convince you) and see if you think a package of Suter, Ellis, Wilson, O'Reilly and a first and second round pick are what it would take to get Kovalchuk for 2 or 3 months. Please, do that for me.

I wouldn't trade Suter ALONE for Kovalchuk's rental services...even if we hoped to re-sign him. The fact that he's reportedly asking for 11 million dollars a year (which he's not worth, by the way) and playing such hardball with Atlanta deters me from the headache. Chew on that.
yea i watch every night too, its called nhl gamecentre...
im not disputing that suter is an excellent d man...
and if u read my previous posts you would see that i dont agree with it, but thats what atl is asking....i also stated several times it is far from worth it for your franchise to sell their farm for a potential rental player...
if you wanna dispute, dispute the idiot that actually thought kovy-nas was possible...i said from the start...possible at the price of: which clearly u have identified, as well as i, that is far to much for 1 player who could walk on july 1st...

and ask 30 gms to pick top 6 d in the league, suter might make a couple lists...weber would make EVERY list....

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01-07-2010, 11:15 AM
  #41
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FYI Weber is on pace for 13.5 goals....

O, and what I think everyone is telling you that hockey is a TEAM sport... And Suter is more important to this team than Weber is right now. I don't think that is very disputable.

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01-07-2010, 11:42 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
FYI Weber is on pace for 13.5 goals....

O, and what I think everyone is telling you that hockey is a TEAM sport... And Suter is more important to this team than Weber is right now. I don't think that is very disputable.
pace means diddly squat, especially for goal scoring...he may not score 20 every year, but he has that potential with his hockey sense and shot...
and as far as nhl scouts go(my uncle is one of them) suter is an above avg. shutdown type d man....weber is in elite class because of his puck moving/ offensive ability combined with his defensive stability.
so unless the scouts i talk to, dont earn their money(1 of which was scout who discovered zetterberg)
then i think you need to apply to the preds, director of central scouting....

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01-07-2010, 11:58 AM
  #43
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Not only do we have to deal with an internal cap, but with the team in limbo for so long, a lot of people may not want to come here. Sure, it's a great small market that doesn't get lots of attention (if any at all, hell we don't even get much here), but it may not be too attractive to a lot of people.

Forsberg came here because he thought we had an awesome shot at winning the cup, in which I do believe we did, but it was a pipe dream as well. Apparently he loved the small market with no attention, but he never came back. That could be a very good sign.

I'm really hoping we stick here for a long time. I can't see myself being very happy if we lose the team to another city. They'd still be #1 in my heart, and I'd follow them to death, but it wouldn't be the same.

I wish Trotz would get his head of out his ass. Of course, it may just be the players. I really hate the style of hockey we play, and while we don't have too much offensive talent right now, we could definitely be putting up more goals if we just put some freakin' shots on the net. I watched San Jose play last night, and boy did they put up a lot of shots. Of course, they ran into a good Chris Mason, who only let in 2 goals, but putting shots on net is not a bad thing at all. We have a few speedy forwards that could deposit a rebound or two.

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01-07-2010, 12:11 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
pace means diddly squat, especially for goal scoring...he may not score 20 every year, but he has that potential with his hockey sense and shot...
and as far as nhl scouts go(my uncle is one of them) suter is an above avg. shutdown type d man....weber is in elite class because of his puck moving/ offensive ability combined with his defensive stability.
so unless the scouts i talk to, dont earn their money(1 of which was scout who discovered zetterberg)
then i think you need to apply to the preds, director of central scouting....
So your uncle isn't much of a scout. Suter is the puck mover. If you ever watched a Pred game you would know that. Weber hardly ever brings the puck up ice. Suter also qb's the power play which means he...wait for it....handles the puck. Weber's offensive talent is his shot and that's it. Defensively Suter is the weaker of the 2, better in open ice then in front of the net. Weber, better in front of the net then in open ice. Weber obviously better with the body, Suter better with his stick.

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01-07-2010, 12:25 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
and as far as nhl scouts go(my uncle is one of them) suter is an above avg. shutdown type d man....weber is in elite class because of his puck moving/ offensive ability combined with his defensive stability.
You must be talking about Yannick Weber, because defensive stability and puck moving ability are the last things I think of when I watch Shea Weber.

He has a booming point shot and plays the body well, but he also tends to float around the defensive zone looking for hits instead of being in position, can't clear the puck to save his life, and can't play a 2 on 1 right. Suter rarely gets beaten, moves the puck up the ice very well, quarterbacks our power play and has been the best player on the ice night in and night out for this team all season, while Weber has been wholly average since about 20 games in.

Weber has game-breaker potential that makes him a very "sexy" player to fans and media, but Suter is the more consistent, more reliable blue liner, and the kind of guy coaches trust in tight situations where they have to hold a lead. You need both to build a good defense, but saying Suter is average while Weber is essentially Jesus is a pretty big stretch.

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01-07-2010, 12:26 PM
  #46
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So your uncle isn't much of a scout. Suter is the puck mover. If you ever watched a Pred game you would know that. Weber hardly ever brings the puck up ice. Suter also qb's the power play which means he...wait for it....handles the puck. Weber's offensive talent is his shot and that's it. Defensively Suter is the weaker of the 2, better in open ice then in front of the net. Weber, better in front of the net then in open ice. Weber obviously better with the body, Suter better with his stick.
isn`t much of a scout
first of all, im sure u would prefer his job then having to ask people ``would you like fries with that``for a living
and I never once disputed, I said weber was a puck mover, not a puck carrier....and your right weber is better defensively...i never said he was an offensive d-man, i just said he has offensive upside and vision that will allow him to score 20 goals...
I try to talk legit with fans in southern markets and it always turns into a dispute....thats ok....i`ll enjoy the Quebec or the Hamilton Predators in a couples years anyway...

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01-07-2010, 12:33 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
You must be talking about Yannick Weber, because defensive stability and puck moving ability are the last things I think of when I watch Shea Weber.

He has a booming point shot and plays the body well, but he also tends to float around the defensive zone looking for hits instead of being in position, can't clear the puck to save his life, and can't play a 2 on 1 right. Suter rarely gets beaten, moves the puck up the ice very well, quarterbacks our power play and has been the best player on the ice night in and night out for this team all season, while Weber has been wholly average since about 20 games in.

Weber has game-breaker potential that makes him a very "sexy" player to fans and media, but Suter is the more consistent, more reliable blue liner, and the kind of guy coaches trust in tight situations where they have to hold a lead. You need both to build a good defense, but saying Suter is average while Weber is essentially Jesus is a pretty big stretch.
yea ur right, shea weber is a defensive liability....hahahahaha
and i nevr said weber was jesus, just that he was elite level...and suter is not there...
i am a ryan suter fan, but hes not on the same level as weber, pure and simple......
im not arguing anymore, you guys have your opinion, and me, and scouts, and gms and coaches and anyone else has a different one..thats ok.....2 former predators that i`ve spoken too said the city lacks passion for its hockey team......you guys dont lack passion, but a lot of you on here, lack hockey knowledge....


Last edited by sparxx87: 01-07-2010 at 12:43 PM.
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01-07-2010, 12:36 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
isn`t much of a scout
first of all, im sure u would prefer his job then having to ask people ``would you like fries with that``for a living
and I never once disputed, I said weber was a puck mover, not a puck carrier....and your right weber is better defensively...i never said he was an offensive d-man, i just said he has offensive upside and vision that will allow him to score 20 goals...
I try to talk legit with fans in southern markets and it always turns into a dispute....thats ok....i`ll enjoy the Quebec or the Hamilton Predators in a couples years anyway...
Don't try and be too classy or anything.

I think it was a bit misunderstood by what he was saying. Either way, we know Weber is the better overall player, Suter is just more consistent.

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01-07-2010, 12:39 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
isn`t much of a scout
first of all, im sure u would prefer his job then having to ask people ``would you like fries with that``for a living
and I never once disputed, I said weber was a puck mover, not a puck carrier....and your right weber is better defensively...i never said he was an offensive d-man, i just said he has offensive upside and vision that will allow him to score 20 goals...
I try to talk legit with fans in southern markets and it always turns into a dispute....thats ok....i`ll enjoy the Quebec or the Hamilton Predators in a couples years anyway...
Maybe you can get your NHL scout uncle to drive you to the games, too.

You say you want to talk hockey, you can start by not trying to tell us how good or bad our own players are.

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01-07-2010, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
isn`t much of a scout
first of all, im sure u would prefer his job then having to ask people ``would you like fries with that``for a living
and I never once disputed, I said weber was a puck mover, not a puck carrier....and your right weber is better defensively...i never said he was an offensive d-man, i just said he has offensive upside and vision that will allow him to score 20 goals...
I try to talk legit with fans in southern markets and it always turns into a dispute....thats ok....i`ll enjoy the Quebec or the Hamilton Predators in a couples years anyway...
FWIW I've been watching/playing/coaching hockey for better then 30 years. You can back track all you want. Doesn't change what you said. If you want to talk legit, I'm all for it. But saying Kovi is top 5 in the world and your observations on Suter and Weber has limited your credibility somewhat.

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