HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Buffalo - Colorado - Philadelphia

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-22-2009, 12:10 PM
  #76
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,366
vCash: 500
Hartnell, Coburn = 5.6
for
Stafford, Enroth, Lydman = 4.775

include Lydman (a guy you can trade at the deadline for a 2nd rounder and a prospect) to make it work against the cap.

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 12:11 PM
  #77
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I dont think that at all.

I think Hartnell = Stafford
If that's your philosophy then this isn't going to work.

I don't think that's the case at all, but it's your call.

This deal is officially dead.

Thanks for the discussion everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Hartnell, Coburn = 5.6
for
Stafford, Enroth, Lydman = 4.775

include Lydman (a guy you can trade at the deadline for a 2nd rounder and a prospect) to make it work against the cap.
Coburn is too valuable. Sorry.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 12:12 PM
  #78
jlr
\m/o.o\m/
 
jlr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Hartnell + 1st is overpayment for Stafford + Enroth?

Alright, I think I'll shop somewhere else.
In a vacuum? No. But there are a lot of small factors unique to the 2 teams involved.

1. Philly has crap goaltending, has for a long time, and this deal gives a Buffalo rival a potentially great starting goaltender as early next season.
2. Stafford is the closest thing we have to a power forward, so Hartnell isn't as big of an upgrade over him as he would be over a guy like Pominville or even MacArthur, IMO. Stafford is also cheap, so we're not getting rid of any of our big/overpaid contracts (Pominville/Hecht/Connolly).
3. A lot depends on where the theoretical 1st round pick was at. If we're talking potential lottery pick, that is certainly more valuable than a mid to late first round pick that we'll likely be getting ourselves, and in that case Philly would possibly be overpaying.

jlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 12:15 PM
  #79
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlr View Post
In a vacuum? No. But there are a lot of small factors unique to the 2 teams involved.

1. Philly has crap goaltending, has for a long time, and this deal gives a Buffalo rival a potentially great starting goaltender as early next season.
2. Stafford is the closest thing we have to a power forward, so Hartnell isn't as big of an upgrade over him as he would be over a guy like Pominville or even MacArthur, IMO. Stafford is also cheap, so we're not getting rid of any of our big/overpaid contracts (Pominville/Hecht/Connolly).
3. A lot depends on where the theoretical 1st round pick was at. If we're talking potential lottery pick, that is certainly more valuable than a mid to late first round pick that we'll likely be getting ourselves, and in that case Philly would possibly be overpaying.
yea, i think the intricacies got lost in the conversation.

That's why in TRADE VALUE. I think Stafford and Hartnell are about the same considering the teams involved.

Buffalo gets the more developed and productice power forward, but at 2.5 times the cost, while also removing the only "BIG" forward in the top 6. This means that although a BIGGER forward was added, the overall complexion of the top 6 isn't changed much.

This is where it takes time to understand perceived trade value vs team trade value.

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 12:16 PM
  #80
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlr View Post
In a vacuum? No. But there are a lot of small factors unique to the 2 teams involved.

1. Philly has crap goaltending, has for a long time, and this deal gives a Buffalo rival a potentially great starting goaltender as early next season.
2. Stafford is the closest thing we have to a power forward, so Hartnell isn't as big of an upgrade over him as he would be over a guy like Pominville or even MacArthur, IMO. Stafford is also cheap, so we're not getting rid of any of our big/overpaid contracts (Pominville/Hecht/Connolly).
3. A lot depends on where the theoretical 1st round pick was at. If we're talking potential lottery pick, that is certainly more valuable than a mid to late first round pick that we'll likely be getting ourselves, and in that case Philly would possibly be overpaying.
1. Emery is a pretty good goalie and Boucher has played well this year. The rumors about Philly's goaltending over the last decade are overexaggerated if not untrue.

2. That makes sense. It's understandable.

3. Philly doesn't have any draft picks so it doesn't matter.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 12:28 PM
  #81
jlr
\m/o.o\m/
 
jlr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
1. Emery is a pretty good goalie...
.901 SV% (39th)
2.83 GAA (32nd)

He's really not. You guys are much more dangerous with competent goaltending, and I'd really hate to be the team that gave it to you.

jlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 12:28 PM
  #82
Edmontonoil
Registered User
 
Edmontonoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 634
vCash: 500
pretty good proposal

Edmontonoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 12:42 PM
  #83
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlr View Post
.901 SV% (39th)
2.83 GAA (32nd)

He's really not. You guys are much more dangerous with competent goaltending, and I'd really hate to be the team that gave it to you.
You have no idea at all. Most of his numbers were depleted thanks to Stevens playing him while he was hurt this year.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 12:43 PM
  #84
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You have no idea at all. Most of his numbers were depleted thanks to Stevens playing him while he was hurt this year.
where was he playing last year?

Emery is another in a long line of barely NHL caliber goalies...

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 12:58 PM
  #85
jlr
\m/o.o\m/
 
jlr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,095
vCash: 500
05-06: .902 SV%, 2.82 GAA
06-07: .918 SV%, 2.47 GAA
07-08: .890 SV%, 3.13 GAA
08-09: KHL
09-10: .901 SV%, 2.83 GAA

Philly decided to go the Detroit route and skimp on goaltending, choosing instead to spend on defense. Emery is a bottom tier goaltender now, just like he was in Ottawa in the past. The numbers he's putting up this year are typical for him.

jlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 01:05 PM
  #86
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,578
vCash: 500
Awards:
Guys, it's not a goaltending debate thread. Work it on back 'round to the OP or the non-Avalanche derivation of the OP. Thanks.

__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 01:07 PM
  #87
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Guys, it's not a goaltending debate thread. Work it on back 'round to the OP or the non-Avalanche derivation of the OP. Thanks.
i'd like to get back to this

Hartnell, Coburn
for
Stafford, Enroth, Lydman, Gerbe*

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 02:31 PM
  #88
BackGroundMusic
rebuildingeverywhere
 
BackGroundMusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i'd like to get back to this

Hartnell, Coburn
for
Stafford, Enroth, Lydman, Gerbe*
I'd absolutely go no further than that. Gerbe showed a lot more this callup than last year's cuppa, and I hate the idea of Enroth in Philly. I know, to get you must give, but that's the limit.

BackGroundMusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 02:53 PM
  #89
lifeisruff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: wny
Posts: 731
vCash: 500
I'm at a complete lost as to why we are so hung up on protecting Enroth.

He not staying on this team. Period. Under no circumstances short of Miller suffering a legendary fall on grace (knock on wood) is Enroth more valuable on this team then as trade bait. Replacing Stafford with Hartnell makes this team a contender IMO.

lifeisruff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 03:05 PM
  #90
jlr
\m/o.o\m/
 
jlr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeisruff View Post
Replacing Stafford with Hartnell makes this team a contender IMO.
Really? That's not hyperbole at all?

I think the difference between us and a contender is more than one player. But even if it were one player, I don't think the upgrade from Stafford to Hartnell is enough. Carter replacing Connolly would be closer. But we'd still have an inept PP, which is what ultimately killed the last Sabres team that was considered a contender.

I think Enroth's value is greater than the difference in value between Hartnell and Stafford, when you include all the other little nuances of a potential deal. And Hartnell has a NTC, so this whole conversation is something of a moot point, isn't it?

If we can find someone to take Gerbe, that's great - he's the smallest of the upcoming munchins, and has already had more concussions than I'd like to see. If we could call him up and showcase him and include him in a package for a top six upgrade, I'm all for it.

jlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 03:05 PM
  #91
BackGroundMusic
rebuildingeverywhere
 
BackGroundMusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeisruff View Post
I'm at a complete lost as to why we are so hung up on protecting Enroth.

He not staying on this team. Period. Under no circumstances short of Miller suffering a legendary fall on grace (knock on wood) is Enroth more valuable on this team then as trade bait. Replacing Stafford with Hartnell makes this team a contender IMO.
Why would you want to give a potential franchise goaltender to a rival team?

I'm not against trading Enroth but I'd much rather see him shipped out West.

BackGroundMusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:34 PM
  #92
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeisruff View Post
I'm at a complete lost as to why we are so hung up on protecting Enroth.

He not staying on this team. Period. Under no circumstances short of Miller suffering a legendary fall on grace (knock on wood) is Enroth more valuable on this team then as trade bait. Replacing Stafford with Hartnell makes this team a contender IMO.
One could make the argument, that a good young backup goaltender would've helped this team make the playoffs last year when Miller got injured.

Another argument for two years ago would be that if Miller wasn't forced to play 76 games and wear down at the end of the year, they would've made the playoffs.

Enroth is the back up goaltender next year, and the Sabres control his rights for another 4 years.

Having an elite goaltender does not mean that having a very good back up isn't of value.

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.