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Old
12-22-2009, 11:55 AM
  #51
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
well that was the thought with Penner and Hemsky... Then Penner Hemsky and Cole... Then Penner Hemsky and OSully... Oh and the failed Lupul and Hemsky... lets face it, hemsky is just an add on to this team, he can't be a top 2, he's a good #3. This team is missing a lot of pieces, problem is, we got zero cap room.

we're stuck between a rock and a hard place, we're best to let the contracts expire and draft draft draft
Problem is Penner, Lupul, Cole, Sykora, O'Sullivan(although he hasn't played much with Hemsky) weren't 1st liners when we brought them in. They were all 2nd liners who Lowe figured could get the job done. Carter is a proven player unlike most of those guys on that list.

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Old
12-22-2009, 11:56 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
well that was the thought with Penner and Hemsky... Then Penner Hemsky and Cole... Then Penner Hemsky and OSully... Oh and the failed Lupul and Hemsky... lets face it, hemsky is just an add on to this team, he can't be a top 2, he's a good #3. This team is missing a lot of pieces, problem is, we got zero cap room.

we're stuck between a rock and a hard place, we're best to let the contracts expire and draft draft draft
Better to trade a vet contract or two for a draft pick, no matter where. Gems could be anywhere these days.

Carter would help, but I don't think we have what Philly is looking for.

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Old
12-22-2009, 12:00 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Problem is Penner, Lupul, Cole, Sykora, O'Sullivan(although he hasn't played much with Hemsky) weren't 1st liners when we brought them in. They were all 2nd liners who Lowe figured could get the job done. Carter is a proven player unlike most of those guys on that list.
Can't disagree there, but they have a lot of issues right now, and I'd love to have Carter on this team

but i probably wouldn't do Eberle and Gagner for him, not unless I knew I had more pieces in play to help this team out, this team is in trouble and will be for the next 3-5 years IMO

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Old
12-22-2009, 12:02 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by koeltrain View Post
Better to trade a vet contract or two for a draft pick, no matter where. Gems could be anywhere these days.

Carter would help, but I don't think we have what Philly is looking for.
you probably won't be able to trade any of our vet contracts unless they are in their last year where they'll be a UFA in July. Not many teams are going to want to take on the cap and contract.

Only 2 guys I would guess would generate enough interest from teams to take on their contract and cap, Souray & Visnovsky (and I'm talking of the older veteran players, not taking into accounts Hemsky, Penner, etc)

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Old
12-22-2009, 12:06 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by craigw99 View Post
The problem in the dressing room is that Carter banged Scott Hartnell's wife.
No Joke.
Kirk McLean is spinning in his armchair

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Old
12-22-2009, 12:19 PM
  #56
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
Can't disagree there, but they have a lot of issues right now, and I'd love to have Carter on this team

but i probably wouldn't do Eberle and Gagner for him, not unless I knew I had more pieces in play to help this team out, this team is in trouble and will be for the next 3-5 years IMO
I'm not sold on Eberle. Quinn made it very clear that Eberle needed to work on his game away from the puck, I doubt that Eberle is even thinking about this right now. He is more worried about lighting it up against younger players.

Eberle won't have an impact on this team for a couple of years in my book and when he does I really don't know that he is what media are saying about him.

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Old
12-22-2009, 12:20 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
you probably won't be able to trade any of our vet contracts unless they are in their last year where they'll be a UFA in July. Not many teams are going to want to take on the cap and contract.

Only 2 guys I would guess would generate enough interest from teams to take on their contract and cap, Souray & Visnovsky (and I'm talking of the older veteran players, not taking into accounts Hemsky, Penner, etc)
Staios and Moreau who be players that some of the younger borderline playoff teams would take. Not sure we get much, but there is some sort of market for them.

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Old
12-22-2009, 12:33 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
Gagner will likely never be as good as Carter, and I like Carter's size and the fact that he is a shooter and is only payed 5 million.
What a dim comment. Carter was no where near being the Player Gagner is at 20.

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Old
12-22-2009, 12:50 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
What a dim comment. Carter was no where near being the Player Gagner is at 20.
how is it a dim comment?

gagner is *never* going to score 46 goals like carter did as a 23/24 year old last year.... hell, gagner will most likely never score 29 goals like carter did as a 22/23 year old the year before last (07-08).... carter is twice the player that gagner is, and he's 6 foot 3 on top of it

peoples expectations for gagner are crazy, if we're *lucky*, he'll turn into a good 2nd line center who doesn't get killed in the defensive zone.... but gagner isn't that player yet, not by a long shot

carter >>> gagner, now and in the future.... if you don't believe me, offere gagner for carter straight up in a deal on the trade forum and see how badly you get laughed out of town.... nobody in their right mind would give up carter for only gagner

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Old
12-22-2009, 01:00 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Snowstorm View Post
Philly is in Cap Purgatory. They would need to add salary. Somehow, I don't think they really need Gilbert.
not really ......they have a lot of LTIR(about 8.5 mill) and about 4 mill in cap space.........with Carter having a 5 mill cap hit then they have lots of room to take on some salary in return for Carter

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Old
12-22-2009, 01:08 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
i think carter is a pipe dream. He was 2nd in the NHL last year with 46 goals and he is a 6'3" 24 year old.

A more plausible deal might be Horcoff for Drury. They have both significantly uderachieved in their contracts and could benefit from a change of scenery. Drury has a $7,050,000 cap hit but it is only for 3 years including this year. Horc's is for 6 years.

Drury might actually be a good centre for Hemsky.

Sign me up for that especially considering the length of the deal
As for Carter, i just don't see us getting him but if we did it would have to be Gagner, O'Sullivan and a 2nd or 3rd Rounder at least and for people wanting to throw in MPS or Eberle in addition to Gagner, i say no way....Carter has had one phenomenal season and a good season under his belt and obviously he has character issues if he's sleeping with a teammate's wife.

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Old
12-22-2009, 01:19 PM
  #62
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Horcs for Drury is interesting. But it would only save them 1.5 mil a year. Its a good concept though; the only way we dump Horcs is if we take on an equally bad contract.

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Old
12-22-2009, 01:34 PM
  #63
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Drury's contract is worse. Not only that, but if we're moving Horcoff just to make room to re-sign Brule, Gagner, Cogliano, Smid, and Grebeshkov over the next couple of years, Drury's deal makes that even more difficult.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:24 PM
  #64
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I don't know if Drury has a no-movement clause or not but if he does, I can't see him waiving it to come to Edmonton considering that he didn't like Calgary. He's on the downside of his career anyway and has never been a superb regular season performer.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:32 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
how is it a dim comment?

gagner is *never* going to score 46 goals like carter did as a 23/24 year old last year.... hell, gagner will most likely never score 29 goals like carter did as a 22/23 year old the year before last (07-08).... carter is twice the player that gagner is, and he's 6 foot 3 on top of it

peoples expectations for gagner are crazy, if we're *lucky*, he'll turn into a good 2nd line center who doesn't get killed in the defensive zone.... but gagner isn't that player yet, not by a long shot

carter >>> gagner, now and in the future.... if you don't believe me, offere gagner for carter straight up in a deal on the trade forum and see how badly you get laughed out of town.... nobody in their right mind would give up carter for only gagner
Wow you must be a psychic or something. If your going to compare the two atleast compare them at the same age. Its not even close Gagner is better as a 20 year old. As for making outlandish statements about what kind of player Gagner is going to be or not going to be is just pure speculation and nothing more at this time. Next time you are trying to prove a point try not using the rumor board argument. That is being dim.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:35 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
not really ......they have a lot of LTIR(about 8.5 mill) and about 4 mill in cap space.........with Carter having a 5 mill cap hit then they have lots of room to take on some salary in return for Carter
They should be going after Kovalchuk .. Carter ++ for Kovy would be the best deal for both teams..

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:38 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
Wow you must be a psychic or something. If your going to compare the two atleast compare them at the same age. Its not even close Gagner is better as a 20 year old. As for making outlandish statements about what kind of player Gagner is going to be or not going to be is just pure speculation and nothing more at this time. Next time you are trying to prove a point try not using the rumor board argument. That is being dim.
if you're so sure about this, and think that you're right.... offer gagner for carter on the trade board, with a poll, and see what the results are... in fact i'll go do it right now, and i'll let you know what the results are

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:39 PM
  #68
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Him coming here is a doubtful, I don't know how good U of A frat parties are.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:39 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
Wow you must be a psychic or something. If your going to compare the two atleast compare them at the same age. Its not even close Gagner is better as a 20 year old. As for making outlandish statements about what kind of player Gagner is going to be or not going to be is just pure speculation and nothing more at this time. Next time you are trying to prove a point try not using the rumor board argument. That is being dim.
As a 20 year old carter scored 23 goals and had 19 assists, that was while playing 12 minutes a game and it was Carter's first year. Gagner on the other hand is on pace for 19 goals and 30 assists and he is in his third NHL year and plays 16 minutes a night.

Yep Gagner is sure the better option.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:44 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
They should be going after Kovalchuk .. Carter ++ for Kovy would be the best deal for both teams..
++?

Kovy is just a rental player. To actually get a quality body like carter back in a dump for Kovy would probably be a straight accross trade. Hell they traded Hossa, for Armstrong, Esposito, Christensen and a bag of pucks.

If Atlanta realizes they can't sign Kovy and can get Carter coming back they would take it in a heartbeat, they wouldn't be asking Philly to add to the deal.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:45 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
if you're so sure about this, and think that you're right.... offer gagner for carter on the trade board, with a poll, and see what the results are... in fact i'll go do it right now, and i'll let you know what the results are
Woosh!!!

Are you missing something up there?

You are completely missing the point.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:48 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by hemskysuncle View Post
Speculation is that Jeff Carter is up for grabs from Philly (although it is Garrioch), in the past a good trade partner of the Edmonton Oilers.

I am not sure how low his stock is, but offering Halak is pretty weak. Anyways, he has a 5 mill cap hit.

Would you do O'Sullivan, Cogliano and Gilbert for Carter and Carle?

Is that a valid proposal? I think so, but the opinion on the Oilers' players is at a pretty low level on this board right now

The cap hit difference is about 8.4 from Philly and dumping about 8.2...i think...feel free to correct me on this.
I highly doubt Philly would do it, however I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:51 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by misfit View Post
Drury's contract is worse. Not only that, but if we're moving Horcoff just to make room to re-sign Brule, Gagner, Cogliano, Smid, and Grebeshkov over the next couple of years, Drury's deal makes that even more difficult.
It's not a worse contract because it expires three years before Horcoff's does, if we dump Horcoff, we will have to take another bad contract and in this case, it would be a shorter bad contract.
Worry about extending those guys later, the idea is to get rid of a contract that will cripple our cap for the next 6 years even if it is for a contract that will cripple us for 3 years.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:53 PM
  #74
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
It's not a worse contract because it expires three years before Horcoff's does, if we dump Horcoff, we will have to take another bad contract and in this case, it would be a shorter bad contract.
Worry about extending those guys later, the idea is to get rid of a contract that will cripple our cap for the next 6 years even if it is for a contract that will cripple us for 3 years.
Makes sense to some degree, if that is something Tambo wants to do he better make it the last thing Sather does as GM of the Rags.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:54 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
how is it a dim comment?

gagner is *never* going to score 46 goals like carter did as a 23/24 year old last year.... hell, gagner will most likely never score 29 goals like carter did as a 22/23 year old the year before last (07-08).... carter is twice the player that gagner is, and he's 6 foot 3 on top of it

peoples expectations for gagner are crazy, if we're *lucky*, he'll turn into a good 2nd line center who doesn't get killed in the defensive zone.... but gagner isn't that player yet, not by a long shot

carter >>> gagner, now and in the future.... if you don't believe me, offere gagner for carter straight up in a deal on the trade forum and see how badly you get laughed out of town.... nobody in their right mind would give up carter for only gagner
Well put.

The most worrying tendency for Gagner right now seems to be the fact that he really hasn't improved a whole lot in too many areas after a stellar rookie year.

Last year was his sophmore slump, which is fine, but what about this year? He's still giving the puck away, struggling mightily on the cycle, his two-way game hasn't improved a lot, and he still goes in, tries his little on the fly pass, and gets defended pretty easily.

If Philly wants Gagner + stuff for Carter. You do that trade and don't think twice. Carter is a stud.

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