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Old
12-22-2009, 10:02 AM
  #1
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Josh Harding

This was one of the potential names that was being floated around in the off-season. I realize that he is stinking it up right now but maybe that makes him easier to get? He is rfa next season and he makes peanuts right now. Is it too late to make a move to get him? We need to address our goaltending future and I am not sold on JDD. How about something like one of our offensive d men for Harding + a pick? It would give us some cap relief and a possible starting goalie down the line.

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12-22-2009, 10:14 AM
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In the summer I wanted the oilers to sign Craig Anderson........yes he and Khabi are injured now, but who would u rather go with now and 3 years from now.
No offense to Khabi.

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Last edited by Pros and Cons: 12-22-2009 at 10:20 AM.
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12-22-2009, 10:18 AM
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Harding is the equivalent of JDD in my eyes, and I still think JDD will pan out to be a pretty good goalie for a our rebuilding team. It was the wrong time to sign Khabi, we are wasting valuable cap space and the opportunity to let JDD and DD get the majority of the ice time for the next 4 years while this team tries to rebuild a mess.

There is ZERO point in my mind to go after any goalie at this stage of the game while we have Khabi here now for 4 years. We may as well sit on him till he retires or we can trade him, and I don't see us trading him at any point unless we are paying someone to take him away.

We should be more concerned about stock piling some more high draft picks and go from there.

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12-22-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
We should be more concerned about stock piling some more high draft picks and go from there.
You are right.

I remember Philadelphia doing that a couple of years ago.......... oh wait that didn't pan out just yet.

So what is the Oiler mold now? It changes with every gust of suck wind.

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12-22-2009, 10:25 AM
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I don't know Harding isn't exactly doing that well, he has little experience and at this point in time I'm not sure I take him.

If Bulin is out Long-Term, I think we look at bringing in a vet to help out JDD.

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12-22-2009, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Pros and Cons View Post
You are right.

I remember Philadelphia doing that a couple of years ago.......... oh wait that didn't pan out just yet.

So what is the Oiler mold now? It changes with every gust of suck wind.
oh wait, but CHI, WSH, PIT, LAK, PHX and coming along TBL all have stock piled on some picks.... ya you're right, stock piling picks dont work, who was i kidding

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12-22-2009, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I don't know Harding isn't exactly doing that well, he has little experience and at this point in time I'm not sure I take him.

If Bulin is out Long-Term, I think we look at bringing in a vet to help out JDD.
What good would bringing a vet do? Goalies learn the most with ice-time.

As to the original proposal:
Grebeshkov
for
Harding+4th

I'm all for it. I hate the idea of a 3 headed goalie problem, but whatever.

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12-22-2009, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
What good would bringing a vet do? Goalies learn the most with ice-time.

As to the original proposal:
Grebeshkov
for
Harding+4th

I'm all for it. I hate the idea of a 3 headed goalie problem, but whatever.
Help him out, by being a reliable backup. Someone that the Oilers can turn to if need be. How much pressure does JDD have on him knowing that his backup won't be there to bail him out if he has a bad game?

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12-22-2009, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Help him out, by being a reliable backup. Someone that the Oilers can turn to if need be. How much pressure does JDD have on him knowing that his backup won't be there to bail him out if he has a bad game?
How much pressure does a goalie really have when your team is in last place in the conference?

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12-22-2009, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
oh wait, but CHI, WSH, PIT, LAK, PHX and coming along TBL all have stock piled on some picks.... ya you're right, stock piling picks dont work, who was i kidding
WOAH MAN, where did I offend you?

It didn't work for Philadelphia, as in it didn't work for them. end.

Anyone that follows hockey knows that you need to stockpile picks. We have had ample time to do that, we just have not picked so well.

And I ask again, what mold are we using? We have attempted different molds only to give up too early and switch to another.

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12-22-2009, 10:54 AM
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I saw the Oilers lost 7-2 last night. Was dubnyk that bad? Or did the Oilers overall play like crap?

I assume with this thread the former.

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12-22-2009, 11:07 AM
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How much pressure does a goalie really have when your team is in last place in the conference?
Good point. I still prefer to go after someone that won't be here after next year. Unless of course Florida takes Bulin+ for Vokoun.

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12-22-2009, 11:08 AM
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This team needs to rebuild big time over the next 3 and a half seasons. With bad contracts like Horcoff, Khabibulin, Staios, Moreau, etc., there is no way this team can actually contend over the next 3 or 4 seasons, so it's time for a real rebuild. Play our young guys, do whatever they can to move our players of value (Souray, Vish, Penner), move some of the suspect younger guys (Gilbert, Grebs, POS, Cogs), do whatever you can to try and get rid of some bad contracts (Horcoff, Khabi, Staios, Moreau, Pisani). Play the heck out of Gagner, Brule, JFJ, Peckham, JD, DD, etc. Obviously, not all these moves can be done, but Tambo has to try and make as many as possible. Penner needs to go, he's gone in 2 years for sure, and his value is as high as it will ever be, add that to the fact that this team is way more than 2 years away from competing, it's a no brainer, he needs to go. Time to start over and build from the draft, they have some nice pieces already (Gagner, Eberle, Gilbert, MPS, Plante, Omark, Grebs, JD, etc.) Hopefully some of these players turn into impact players, but they need more. Time to rethink this whole master plan, it's not working right now, change it up.

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12-22-2009, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
I saw the Oilers lost 7-2 last night. Was dubnyk that bad? Or did the Oilers overall play like crap?

I assume with this thread the former.
It was a combination, he didn't play great, but the Oil did leave him out to dry quite a few times. The Blues owned the Oil last night. DD has to be better, but so do the Oilers.

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12-22-2009, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
Harding is the equivalent of JDD in my eyes, and I still think JDD will pan out to be a pretty good goalie for a our rebuilding team. It was the wrong time to sign Khabi, we are wasting valuable cap space and the opportunity to let JDD and DD get the majority of the ice time for the next 4 years while this team tries to rebuild a mess.

There is ZERO point in my mind to go after any goalie at this stage of the game while we have Khabi here now for 4 years. We may as well sit on him till he retires or we can trade him, and I don't see us trading him at any point unless we are paying someone to take him away.

We should be more concerned about stock piling some more high draft picks and go from there.

+1 I agree with this and harding looks normalthis year

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12-22-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
+1 I agree with this and harding looks normalthis year
I agree, there is no reason to make a move for a goalie at this point, let's see what they have in JD and DD before going hunting for another goalie. I'm happy with JD so far, I think he's been solid.

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12-22-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pros and Cons View Post
WOAH MAN, where did I offend you?

It didn't work for Philadelphia, as in it didn't work for them. end.

Anyone that follows hockey knows that you need to stockpile picks. We have had ample time to do that, we just have not picked so well.

And I ask again, what mold are we using? We have attempted different molds only to give up too early and switch to another.
didn't offend, just stating the fact that your comment was saying that it never worked for PHI but it did for all the other teams. Plus I don't recall PHI doing a full rebuild, they've been up and down dramatically and added lots of players through trades and a couple solid picks that panned out, but I don't recall them pulling a CHI, WSH, LAK, or PIT.

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12-22-2009, 11:24 AM
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Goaltending is the least of this team's concerns at this point and Harding certainly is not the answer, i wanted freaking Craig Anderson in the offseason but i believe that a Khabibulin-JDD combo is fine for the forseeable future.

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12-22-2009, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
What good would bringing a vet do? Goalies learn the most with ice-time.

As to the original proposal:
Grebeshkov
for
Harding+4th

I'm all for it. I hate the idea of a 3 headed goalie problem, but whatever.
No. The value of a backup goalie is about a third round pick. Would you take and 3rd and 4th round pick for Grebs? I sure wouldn't. If Khabby is gone for the year, offer a 3rd round pick or a fringe player for a goalie and I'm sure somebody would bite. Biron, Harding, Halak even Toskala (whose contract ends at the end of the year) would be possibilities.

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12-22-2009, 11:46 AM
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No. The value of a backup goalie is about a third round pick. Would you take and 3rd and 4th round pick for Grebs? I sure wouldn't. If Khabby is gone for the year, offer a 3rd round pick or a fringe player for a goalie and I'm sure somebody would bite. Biron, Harding, Halak even Toskala (whose contract ends at the end of the year) would be possibilities.
You dont just want any old stiff. It has to be somebody that you have confidence in filling the starting spot for many seasons to come. I would feel good about Halak for sure, Harding possibly, the other two not at all.

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12-22-2009, 11:53 AM
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You dont just want any old stiff. It has to be somebody that you have confidence in filling the starting spot for many seasons to come. I would feel good about Halak for sure, Harding possibly, the other two not at all.
I'm assuming that Khabby will be back next season. If not, then going after a young potential starter makes sense. Personally, I don't think Harding is starter material and woiuld prefer Halak instead. A Harding/JDD combination to start next year would be scary ugly.

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12-22-2009, 01:38 PM
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In the off season i made the comment that Harding's stats were inflated because of the defensive minded system that Jacques Lemaire played. Now that they are playing a different system, so far my prediction is right.

Harding's W-L record

Lemaire Era: 19-27-4 = Win percentage of 41.3%
09/10: 2-4-0 = Win Percentage of 33.3%

Harding's GGA

Lemaire Era: 2.49
09/10: 3.45

And the stat the pro Harding posters always brought up: Harding's Save Percentage

Lemaire Era: 0.920
09/10: 0.867

Of course the season isn't even half way done, so there is still time for me to be proven wrong, but I do not believe Harding is not a viable option for the future. He is a backup goalie at best. Manny Legace V2.0.

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12-22-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Head Crusher View Post
In the off season i made the comment that Harding's stats were inflated because of the defensive minded system that Jacques Lemaire played. Now that they are playing a different system, so far my prediction is right.

Harding's W-L record

Lemaire Era: 19-27-4 = Win percentage of 41.3%
09/10: 2-4-0 = Win Percentage of 33.3%

Harding's GGA

Lemaire Era: 2.49
09/10: 3.45

And the stat the pro Harding posters always brought up: Harding's Save Percentage

Lemaire Era: 0.920
09/10: 0.867

Of course the season isn't even half way done, so there is still time for me to be proven wrong, but I do not believe Harding is not a viable option for the future. He is a backup goalie at best. Manny Legace V2.0.
Six games is hardly a viable sample.

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12-22-2009, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Six games is hardly a viable sample.
And 19 games is?

That is how many games he played last year (with a 3-9-1 record) and people were ready to give him the reigns only because he had a .929 save percentage.

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12-22-2009, 03:15 PM
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And 19 games is?

That is how many games he played last year (with a 3-9-1 record) and people were ready to give him the reigns only because he had a .929 save percentage.
If you will do some checking, you will see that he has very good ahl numbers too. So the overwhelming consensus would suggest that is the norm and not your six game sample. Maybe Halak would be better, but he would most certainly cost more. The point is that we should be looking at a future #1, so we dont have to repeat mistakes like giving up first rounders or signing injury prone old guys.

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