HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

12/22/09 Is Brodeur's record as amazing as Sawchuk's?

View Poll Results: Is Brodeur's record as amazing as Sawchuk's?
No, you can't compare between different eras 17 26.15%
Yes, its a record that has been broken 44 67.69%
meh some records are sorta comparible 3 4.62%
other 1 1.54%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-22-2009, 10:12 AM
  #1
BlueBelle
Registered User
 
BlueBelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: in a C of annoying
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 500
12/22/09 Is Brodeur's record as amazing as Sawchuk's?

So now that Martin Brodeur has broken another record, it got me wondering just how much people respect and admire the new record breakers, do you think that the accomplishment is comparable to what it was in the firstplace? What about if someone else comes along and breaks Marty's records?

A Blue Christmas without W
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...422/story.html

Fa-la-la-la-la, la-la, last place
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...983/story.html

Preparation suits Blues coach Murray
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...000/story.html

Jim Matheson answers your questions on the NHL ...
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...996/story.html

Turtle Derby turkeys
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/my...37041-sun.html

Cellar view is no fun
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/my...37036-sun.html

Help! I've fallen and ...
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/my...37046-sun.html

Dubnyk's nightmare
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/my...37051-sun.html

Brodeur is the king
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/ho...37056-sun.html

BlueBelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 10:26 AM
  #2
BlueBelle
Registered User
 
BlueBelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: in a C of annoying
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 500
Are the Oilers trying to move veteran talent, Horcoff, Visnovsky and Souray?
http://communities.canada.com/edmont...nd-souray.aspx

Springfield "Reasonable" Updates
http://lowetide.blogspot.com/2009/12...e-updates.html

Best new Oilers nickname: The Jacques Hammer
http://communities.canada.com/edmont...es-hammer.aspx

It's time for the Oilers to bring in a caretaker management team
http://communities.canada.com/edmont...ment-team.aspx

Sing We Joyous, All Together
http://www.blackdoghatesskunks.com/2...-together.html

'Canes running away with Hall sweepstakes - for now??
http://www.fromtherink.com/

morning papers
http://illegalcurve.com/

Edmonton - St. Louis post-game: suite & sour
http://www.coppernblue.com/2009/12/2...ost-game-suite

Video: Dwayne Roloson's astonishing save sequence for Isles
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,210272

The top 10 NHL shootout goals of the last decade
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,210364

puck daddy has some other pretty interesting reads
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy

around the league with kukla
http://www.kuklaskorner.com/

latest on the blues, Kovalchuk and Halak
http://www.spectorshockey.net/index....&id=5&Itemid=4

Could Five Wins Be Followed By Five Losses?: Oilers Lose Badly to St Louis.
http://oilersinsider.blogspot.com/20...d-by-five.html

The roller coaster ride just hit rock bottom
http://puttingonthefoil.com/2009/12/...t-rock-bottom/

St. Louis Blues light up a Doobie
http://lowonoil.com/2009-articles/de...uis-blues.html

BlueBelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 10:31 AM
  #3
BlueBelle
Registered User
 
BlueBelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: in a C of annoying
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 500
Trading For Ilya Kovalchuk
http://my.thescore.com/hockeyordie/a...kovalchuk.aspx

Fantasy Hockey: Week 11 Recap
http://my.thescore.com/hockeyordie/a...-11-recap.aspx

Bum fights: the Oilers KTFO by the Blues
http://oilersnation.com/2009/12/22/b...o-by-the-blues

Oilers vs. Blues Postgame - I got to meet Jonathan Willis last night, lets just say the poor man was lucky that I was able to restrain myself from asking to have my picture taken with him, despite the fact that that was my only regret from last night's game... well regret that I had anything to do with.
http://oilersnation.com/2009/12/22/o...blues-postgame

BlueBelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 10:49 AM
  #4
Reimer
Tambo Troll Face
 
Reimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,322
vCash: 500
I'm the one vote that said no. I mean I still admire Brodeurs record and it is simply an amazing feat. But it was defintiely a hell of a lot harder to get shutouts back in the day in a much more wide open game of hockey. Either way it is what it is, and that's one reason why a bunch of Gretzky's records will never be broken because there was much more scoring back in the day.

Reimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 10:52 AM
  #5
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,646
vCash: 500
Sawchuk to me is still the best ever. I frankly don't like Brodeur passing him in the same way I haven't liked anyone passing Ruth.

But I'm not sure about the harder to score part...didn't Sawchuk play during hockey's "deadball" era?

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 10:54 AM
  #6
Mentallydull
Registered User
 
Mentallydull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oil Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
I'm the one vote that said no. I mean I still admire Brodeurs record and it is simply an amazing feat. But it was defintiely a hell of a lot harder to get shutouts back in the day in a much more wide open game of hockey. Either way it is what it is, and that's one reason why a bunch of Gretzky's records will never be broken because there was much more scoring back in the day.
The skill level involved isn't really something that should be passed over.

Mentallydull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 10:57 AM
  #7
Reimer
Tambo Troll Face
 
Reimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
The skill level involved isn't really something that should be passed over.
I clearly didn't pass it over. I acknowledged that Brodeurs record is amazing.

Reimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 11:10 AM
  #8
Antidote
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Scotland
Posts: 2,613
vCash: 500
I'm the second. Same size net but much smaller equipment, no mask (he took over 400 stitches on his face), no backup, no breakaway posts and playing through injuries was expected. Brodeur's feat is very worthy and he certainly doesn't deserve an asterisk or anything but the game in the 40's, 50's and 60's was very different and way tougher on goalies,

Antidote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 11:12 AM
  #9
Jimmi Jenkins
Just Walk Away
 
Jimmi Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 38,828
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
I'm the one vote that said no. I mean I still admire Brodeurs record and it is simply an amazing feat. But it was defintiely a hell of a lot harder to get shutouts back in the day in a much more wide open game of hockey. Either way it is what it is, and that's one reason why a bunch of Gretzky's records will never be broken because there was much more scoring back in the day.
I guess it was to a certain extent, but the rigors of travel and the schedule wasn't as tough as it is now.

The skill and durability with that skill required for Brodeur to break this record is ridiculous.

He's amazing, simply amazing.

Jimmi Jenkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 11:57 AM
  #10
BlueBelle
Registered User
 
BlueBelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: in a C of annoying
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 500
I find it difficult to compare between the different eras because each person had their own battles to overcome in terms of rules, and equipment and travel but definitely find these records remarkable. I think that when the next goalie comes along and breaks Marty's records that there will be similar questions asked.

BlueBelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 12:45 PM
  #11
Mentallydull
Registered User
 
Mentallydull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oil Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
I clearly didn't pass it over. I acknowledged that Brodeurs record is amazing.
Sorry, I was referring to Gretzky but didn't clarify very well... and by very well I mean at all

Mentallydull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 01:55 PM
  #12
Jet
Moderator
Stand by your man
 
Jet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Whipanegg
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,806
vCash: 50
Brodeur is simply the best goaltender of all time.

Jet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 02:04 PM
  #13
Reimer
Tambo Troll Face
 
Reimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBelle View Post
I find it difficult to compare between the different eras because each person had their own battles to overcome in terms of rules, and equipment and travel but definitely find these records remarkable. I think that when the next goalie comes along and breaks Marty's records that there will be similar questions asked.
Completely agreed. Each record and each player are what they are. Remarkable goaltenders of their time and all-time in the NHL.

Reimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 02:42 PM
  #14
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,576
vCash: 427
Ask yourself this in 20 years if Brodeur is still the leader are people going to really care that he and Shawchuk played in different era's?

joestevens29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 02:49 PM
  #15
SlowFreshOil*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South
Posts: 2,280
vCash: 500
Marty's the best. Ever. It doesn't matter what era it is, he has the most wins, and the most shutouts. He's the best goalie the NHL has ever seen.

Plus he's done it with the smallest equipment size in an era of goalies with huge equipment. That's why he's far better than Roy, Hasek, Belfour, etc. IMO.

SlowFreshOil* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 02:58 PM
  #16
Meanashell11
Registered User
 
Meanashell11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Greenwich CT
Country: United States
Posts: 2,092
vCash: 500
Slap shots, graphite sticks, travel, players are huge now. Not even close. Much more difficult to get a SO now a days.

Meanashell11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 03:04 PM
  #17
Reimer
Tambo Troll Face
 
Reimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
Marty's the best. Ever. It doesn't matter what era it is, he has the most wins, and the most shutouts. He's the best goalie the NHL has ever seen.

Plus he's done it with the smallest equipment size in an era of goalies with huge equipment. That's why he's far better than Roy, Hasek, Belfour, etc. IMO.
Yes he may have set the record in this era. But 90% of his wins and 95% of his shutouts came when the equipment was much larger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanashell11 View Post
Slap shots, graphite sticks, travel, players are huge now. Not even close. Much more difficult to get a SO now a days.
Not even close? The games today are much mroe defensive minded. As stated they are different eras.

It's like comparing Marris' home run record to the juice monkey record that Bonds set. Different era.

Reimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 03:19 PM
  #18
SlowFreshOil*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South
Posts: 2,280
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Yes he may have set the record in this era. But 90% of his wins and 95% of his shutouts came when the equipment was much larger.
His equipment is tiny compared to his colleagues. Not only that, but shots are faster, harder and players are way better in Marty's era, by a long shot.

SlowFreshOil* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 03:19 PM
  #19
Replacement
Now with 9% more zen
 
Replacement's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hockey Hell
Country: Canada
Posts: 37,323
vCash: 500
I voted no the record is not comparable.

Not one person yet has even mentioned the GP/year differential.

Its the primary thing that weights all these records being broken in the modern era. Thats the biasing factor that makes the stats incomparable from the outset.

To add to this Sawchuk played primarily in the original six era when teams were essentially all star teams compared to what they are today.

It would have been harder getting a shutout back then when there were no weak sister clubs you're playing.

Replacement is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:36 PM
  #20
reginaoil
 
reginaoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Regina
Country: Canada
Posts: 804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
Brodeur is simply the best goaltender of all time.
I knew this "stat" would make people throw this around as a fact. Brodeur has just been a consistently good goalie on a team where a good goalie can put up great numbers for years. Some body has always been better than him just about every year of his career. He has just put it together for a long stretch where he has been a top 3-5 guy. Hasek and Roy were better than him for many years, and Brodeur was at his peak and not as good as them when they were on the tail end of their playing days. Hard to say Brodeur is greater than guys who played in the same era and were the dominate goalies over him.....

reginaoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:42 PM
  #21
Reimer
Tambo Troll Face
 
Reimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
[B][B]His equipment is tiny compared to his colleagues.
I agree with this Brodeur is the best goalie to play over the last two decades.

Quote:
Not only that, but shots are faster, harder and players are way better in Marty's era, by a long shot.
Also with the players being better, and wearing more equipment, the defenseman have also shown a higher willingness to block shots in this era of hockey as well, making the goalies job easier. We all know New Jersey is one of the masters of trap hockey and have been since they have had Brodeur.

As the game evolved as you ahve suggested so have defensive systems and such. Your points are pros and cons of both sides.

Reimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:42 PM
  #22
otto84
Registered User
 
otto84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Thunder Bay
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,803
vCash: 500
Who cares which one is better? They're both awesome.

otto84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:44 PM
  #23
Reimer
Tambo Troll Face
 
Reimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto84 View Post
Who cares which one is better? They're both awesome.
...and again this.

Reimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 05:06 PM
  #24
Jimmi Jenkins
Just Walk Away
 
Jimmi Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 38,828
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
I agree with this Brodeur is the best goalie to play over the last two decades.
I would argue, with Sawchuk getting his last shutout in 1971, that Brodeur, when stacked up against the everyone, is the best goaltender of the last 4 decades.

Edit: Here's my question, and BB feel free to use this for the poll tomorrow, when Brodeur retires, does the NHL waive the 3 yr waiting period? I say yes, I think he's done enough as a player to deserve it.

Jimmi Jenkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 06:01 PM
  #25
OilerNut*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
To add to this Sawchuk played primarily in the original six era when teams were essentially all star teams compared to what they are today.

It would have been harder getting a shutout back then when there were no weak sister clubs you're playing.
I don't buy that. Not every team was an all star team. The talent pool now is a lot greater. Back then you had just players from north america, almost all of them being Canadian.

OilerNut* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:13 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.