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Babcock: goalies picked, 8 d and 15 forwards in the hunt

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Old
12-23-2009, 12:03 PM
  #101
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"Itís got to be pretty good to be Mike Fisher right about now. The Senators are a surprise challenger to the Northwest throne, Fisher is on a tear offensively and on pace for his best ever season and Steve Yzerman is actively scouting him for the Olympic team. He also found time to announce his engagement to a world famous Country singer as well. Fisher is really close right now to securing himself a checking line role with Canada. It may be a very merry Christmas in the Fisher household this year. "

I know its just the CTV Stock Up Stock Down write up, but doesnt it just seem like their preparing all you doubters for the unexpected.

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Old
12-23-2009, 01:04 PM
  #102
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If not for his bad start to the season, I think Francois Beauchemin would have had a good chance to crack this roster.

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Old
12-23-2009, 01:29 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
If not for his bad start to the season, I think Francois Beauchemin would have had a good chance to crack this roster.
seriously? have you looked at the options that Team Canada has on defense?

Beauchemin is no where in the elite category among defenders in the NHL... and Team Canada will already have several dmen better that won't make the top 7.

IMO Beachemin would be competing for a depth spot on the #2 team.

Niedermayer, Pronger, Weber, Seabrook, Boyle, Keith, Bouwmeester, Doughty, Green, and Phaneuf are all ahead of him at this point... that's 10 dmen already.

After that, Beauchemin would be competing for a spot on the #2 team with the 3 that miss out above, plus Jovo, Campbell, Robidas, Souray, Vlasic and others.

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Old
12-23-2009, 02:48 PM
  #104
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I don't see Brad Richards making the team.

I would roll this lineup

Nash-Crosby-Iginla
Heatley-Thornton-Marleau
St.Louis-Getzlaf-Perry
Morrow-M.Richards-Bergeron
Toews

First 2 lines are pretty much the basic setup. Not many lists deviate very much from this.

Third line is also pretty standard, with Getzlaf-Perry being the foundation for the line and St.Louis being the passenger. I could also see Eric Staal being in St. Louis' spot, it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Last line is a little different. I don't think Doan is really needed at this tournament. Grit and strong defensive play won't be an issue with a line of Morrow-M.Richards-Bergeron. More importantly, this "bottom line" has 2 guys who can take any face-off and don't have to worry about someone being tossed out of the circle if they ice the puck.


Last edited by CloutierForVezina: 12-23-2009 at 03:10 PM.
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Old
12-23-2009, 02:56 PM
  #105
Jack Donaghy
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I will cry if Bergeron makes the team. In a good way.

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Old
12-23-2009, 04:19 PM
  #106
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If Dion Phaneuf makes this team, I will douse myself in kerosene and jump into a raging bonfire. I can say this because I am that confident he won't be on the team. There are 8 defensemen more suited to Team Canada than he is; I'd have him at #9 on the depth chart.

Given Yzerman's preference for "safe" and "low-risk" players, I'd say Green doesn't have much of a shot, either. IMO, the defensive locks are:

Pronger
Nieds
Weber
Boyle
Keith

While the remaining two spots will be chosen from three players:

Seabrook
Bouwmeester
Doughty

Sadly, I suspect due to his age Doughty is the odd man out. That said, Team Canada's defense will still have an exceptional combination of size, speed, mobility, offensive prowess, and shut-down capabilities.

I also have great difficulty seeing Fisher on the team over Toews, Stamkos, M. and Richards. I imagine Toews is much closer to a lock now, while Stamkos has to be getting very serious consideration.

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Old
12-23-2009, 04:28 PM
  #107
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Everybody's giving their opinions, so why not...

Nash-Crosby-St. Louis
Perry-Getzlaf-Iginla
Marleau-Thornton-Heatley (can a Sharks fan confirm, who plays LW and who plays RW between Marleau and Heatley???)
Morrow-M. Richards-Doan
Toews

Bouwmeester-Weber
Pronger-Boyle
Keith-Seabrook
Niedermayer

Brodeur
Fleury
Luongo

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Old
12-23-2009, 04:39 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Everybody's giving their opinions, so why not...

Nash-Crosby-St. Louis
Perry-Getzlaf-Iginla
Marleau-Thornton-Heatley (can a Sharks fan confirm, who plays LW and who plays RW between Marleau and Heatley???)
Morrow-M. Richards-Doan
Toews

Bouwmeester-Weber
Pronger-Boyle
Keith-Seabrook
Niedermayer

Brodeur
Fleury
Luongo
Marleau plays LW and Heatley plays RW.

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Old
12-23-2009, 05:00 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
Brad Richards has played a lot on wing as well, and has proven to be capable there throughout his career.

besides, every Team Canada has always had centers playing on the wing... best to have a guy who's got experience on the wing.
Nowhere near as much as Marty, and Brad floats, so no, i'd take Marty over him.

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Old
12-23-2009, 06:19 PM
  #110
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Just saw Mirtle's post for his team. First time I've seen Shea Weber not on the Olympic team.

There's no chance he doesn't make the team, is there?

For anyone hasn't seen it, here is who he picks...

Three no-brainer goalies

Seabrook
Green
Pronger
Keith
Boyle
Bouwmeester
Niedermayer

Crosby
Thornton
Toews
Marleau
Fisher
Getzlaf
Heatley
Lecavalier
Iginla
Perry
St. Louis
Richards
Nash
Posted via Mobile Device

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Old
12-24-2009, 11:34 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipole View Post
If Dion Phaneuf makes this team, I will douse myself in kerosene and jump into a raging bonfire. I can say this because I am that confident he won't be on the team. There are 8 defensemen more suited to Team Canada than he is; I'd have him at #9 on the depth chart.

Given Yzerman's preference for "safe" and "low-risk" players, I'd say Green doesn't have much of a shot, either. IMO, the defensive locks are:

Pronger
Nieds
Weber
Boyle
Keith

While the remaining two spots will be chosen from three players:

Seabrook
Bouwmeester
Doughty

Sadly, I suspect due to his age Doughty is the odd man out. That said, Team Canada's defense will still have an exceptional combination of size, speed, mobility, offensive prowess, and shut-down capabilities.

I also have great difficulty seeing Fisher on the team over Toews, Stamkos, M. and Richards. I imagine Toews is much closer to a lock now, while Stamkos has to be getting very serious consideration.
Dion is going to be there, call it a hunch

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Old
12-24-2009, 11:54 AM
  #112
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I can't believe they don't put Green on the team he's the Crosby or Ovechkin of Defensemen.

You can have 5 or 6 defensive defensemen if you want but how can you not put this generation's Coffey on the team. That's ludicrous. What he does for Washington's great offense he would do for Canada's.

Playing a team like Russia or Sweden or USA you don't want all your offense being generated from forwards. Nothing messes up another team's D like a offensive powerhouse on your D. He's a plus 14 Kaberle is minus 5 and Boyle is plus 7.

If the offense struggles or power play he's a much better option to put into the lineup then Seabrook etc


Last edited by tzinc: 12-24-2009 at 12:00 PM.
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Old
12-24-2009, 12:11 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by tzinc View Post
I can't believe they don't put Green on the team he's the Crosby or Ovechkin of Defensemen.

You can have 5 or 6 defensive defensemen if you want but how can you not put this generation's Coffey on the team. That's ludicrous. What he does for Washington's great offense he would do for Canada's.

Playing a team like Russia or Sweden or USA you don't want all your offense being generated from forwards. Nothing messes up another team's D like a offensive powerhouse on your D. He's a plus 14 Kaberle is minus 5 and Boyle is plus 7.

Till this morning I actually had Green on my team, but after some consideration I bumped him for Seabrook.

My reason- what does Mike Green actually bring to this team that is irreplacable?
My answer was - nothing.

He is a pure offensive based game. All toll, the Canadians will have Weber, Boyle, Doughty, Pronger, Niedermayer, Keith there. Green may be more offensively skilled than all of them, but defensively the difference is tenfold.

So I opted to switch him out for Seabrook in the end. Green may have a moderate upside offensively on Seabrook, but Seabrook comes with a substantial upside on Green defensively, chemistry with another dman in Keith. If you were looking for an offensive only dman, even Robidas would be a better option than Green really. Green has his stats bolstered by AO, Semin & Backstrom. If you take them away he is probably on par with Robidas offensively & Robidas brings even far more of a defensive game. Seabrook (and even Robidas & Bouwmeester) are in the top 15-20 Canadan defensemen in blocked shots. Green is the worst of any considered player for give aways at 34, and has only slightly more than Robidas & Seabrook in take aways.

in fact the more I look into it, I might even have Green below Robidas & Bouwmeester on my team now. In fact, I am starting to think if they dont take Niedermayer based on past merit, Robidas might sneak in to steal that spot...but Green is almost a guarantee to not be there now.

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Old
12-24-2009, 12:16 PM
  #114
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My money is on St. Louis. He is better than Doan and Perry.
No chance

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Old
12-24-2009, 12:29 PM
  #115
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I can understand the chemistry arguement but Seabrook would be your #7 D Man so he won't get to play anyway most likely. If you want chemistry then you'd have to start Seabrook with Keith and then who do you leave out as the 7. Green is a perfect #7 D Man he comes in for a few minutes or only in games after your team has struggled he does not need a regular pairing like Seabrook would. All Seabrook brings is chemistry that's not enough if he is your #7 D Man.

Neidermayer and Pronger are both slightly overrated at this point. Pronger does have some physical prescence. Green is simply better then Boyle. Green is underrated as a D Man he is +14 and plays in a system that dictates he take chances. If he played on NJ he'd be seen in a totally different light.

When you consider what your 7th or 8th if they take 8 D Man will do for you no on in the NHL fits that role better then Green.

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Old
12-24-2009, 12:35 PM
  #116
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No chance
St. Louis has had great point totals than Perry's career high four times, has more points this season (albeit one), experience playing internationally with Canada and a Hart Trophy. I don't think its "no chance".

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Old
12-24-2009, 12:36 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Everybody's giving their opinions, so why not...

Nash-Crosby-St. Louis
Perry-Getzlaf-Iginla
Marleau-Thornton-Heatley (can a Sharks fan confirm, who plays LW and who plays RW between Marleau and Heatley???)
Morrow-M. Richards-Doan
Toews

Bouwmeester-Weber
Pronger-Boyle
Keith-Seabrook
Niedermayer

Brodeur
Fleury
Luongo
This is exactly how I see the roster as well, although I think the forward lines and defensive pairings being different. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Drew Doughty in for JayBo as the #7. Don't think Nieds will be the 7th d-man, he's likely the captain of this team.

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Old
12-24-2009, 12:37 PM
  #118
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Drew Doughty is the perfect 7th D-man. Can fill in, in any situation. Can run a PP, kill a penalty and won't care how much time he gets.

Green brings one thing and that's offense. Yes he's a +14 but the offense up front helps out that number. It's not often he's not out there with Ovey and co...5 on 5.

If you want to win and take whomever's playing their best like Yzerman has said before you don't take Pronger and Niedermeyer. Simple as that...But then it comes down to they deserve to be there...well they haven't been Canada's best 7 d-men this year. They get spots because of previous performances. After 06 I question them putting those two on the team...they didn't play well in Turin.

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Old
12-24-2009, 12:40 PM
  #119
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Sadly, I suspect due to his age Doughty is the odd man out. That said, Team Canada's defense will still have an exceptional combination of size, speed, mobility, offensive prowess, and shut-down capabilities.

I also have great difficulty seeing Fisher on the team over Toews, Stamkos, M. and Richards. I imagine Toews is much closer to a lock now, while Stamkos has to be getting very serious consideration.
I think Doughtys the odd one out, sadly, within a couple years he could potentially be the best defencemen in the world, I really think hes THAT good. Hes currently one of Canada's top 7 no doubt...

As far as Fisher goes, beleive it or not, there's probably enough room on the team for Toews, M Richards, and Fisher. I think you meant to add B Richards, if your a realist you probably understand if BRichards isnt on the top 6, hes probably not on the team. The steam on Stamkos' boat has puttered off, he needed a top 6 role or hes off, if he could have kept up he likely would have been there. Mike Richards is not at all the lock he was going into this year, alot of noteworthy media people think hes played himself off, like it or not, these media people do have access to pretty good information.

Fishers ahead of Stamkos and both Richards...all of them will have better offensive careers than Mike Fisher and you could easily argue all of them are better players to build a team around. Currently, none of them could keep up with the likes of Ovie and company from a defensive standpoint like Fisher and a couple of the other 4th liners in contention.

You can tell Canada's goin 4th line will be full of solid checkers who CAN contribute offensively just by looking at the players their watching lately. Yzerman was in Ottawa to watch Fisher and Bergeron over the weekend. I would not be surprised if it was one or the other.

I beleive Toews is there before Fisher, you get the sense from the media that Hockey Canada just likes him too much to leave him off. Hes a 13th forward and will force players on the 3rd and 4th line to earn their ice time.

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12-24-2009, 12:41 PM
  #120
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St. Louis has had great point totals than Perry's career high four times, has more points this season (albeit one), experience playing internationally with Canada and a Hart Trophy. I don't think its "no chance".
St Louis also won't take that stupid penalty that could hurt the team. Perry is known for that. St Louis takes what 10 penalties a year.

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Old
12-24-2009, 12:47 PM
  #121
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I can understand the chemistry arguement but Seabrook would be your #7 D Man so he won't get to play anyway most likely. If you want chemistry then you'd have to start Seabrook with Keith and then who do you leave out as the 7. Green is a perfect #7 D Man he comes in for a few minutes or only in games after your team has struggled he does not need a regular pairing like Seabrook would. All Seabrook brings is chemistry that's not enough if he is your #7 D Man.

Neidermayer and Pronger are both slightly overrated at this point. Pronger does have some physical prescence. Green is simply better then Boyle. Green is underrated as a D Man he is +14 and plays in a system that dictates he take chances. If he played on NJ he'd be seen in a totally different light.

When you consider what your 7th or 8th if they take 8 D Man will do for you no on in the NHL fits that role better then Green.
Greens 34 give aways is all any GM has to look at to see that his defensive game is absolutely invisible.
Seabrook has 70 blocked shots, Green has 55
Seabrook has 97 hits, Green has 49
Seabrook has 20 give aways, Green has 34
Seabrook has 12 take aways, Green has 15 - only cateogory he is better in.

His offense is easily replaceable by anyone on the team, hell, even Robidas can replace it. His defense however would be harder to cover up. His defensive liabilities are too high compared to his offensive assets. he isnt on the team & honestly, he is probably evne below Bouwmeester & Robidas in the managements eyes now. They dont need Boyle AND Green, and with Boyle having more chemistry with 1/4 of the teams forwards, he gets the overwhelming nod.

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Old
12-24-2009, 05:10 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Currently, none of them could keep up with the likes of Ovie and company from a defensive standpoint like Fisher and a couple of the other 4th liners in contention.
Mike Richards is easily Canada's best defensive forward. He lost last year's Selke vote by 3 votes (945 to 942). Despite his slow start he is still one of the top-3 two-way players in the league. He is fully capable of handling "Ovie and company" as well, if not better, than Fisher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
You can tell Canada's goin 4th line will be full of solid checkers who CAN contribute offensively just by looking at the players their watching lately. Yzerman was in Ottawa to watch Fisher and Bergeron over the weekend. I would not be surprised if it was one or the other.

I beleive Toews is there before Fisher, you get the sense from the media that Hockey Canada just likes him too much to leave him off. Hes a 13th forward and will force players on the 3rd and 4th line to earn their ice time.
Seems unlikely that the fourth line will consist of three centers. Richards will almost definitely be the centerman, while Toews will likely play on one of the wings. The third guy will probably be a natural LW/RW, maybe one of Doan or Morrow, as much as I hate to admit it.

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Old
12-24-2009, 05:37 PM
  #123
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Mike Richards is easily Canada's best defensive forward. He lost last year's Selke vote by 3 votes (945 to 942). Despite his slow start he is still one of the top-3 two-way players in the league. He is fully capable of handling "Ovie and company" as well, if not better, than Fisher.
.
I shouldnt really have included Mike Richards in that group. But, I do doubt hes Canada's best defensive forward TODAY, let alone easily. Im aware he was last year, and Im aware he may well have been to start this season. He'd be on my team, but I think there's a real possibility Canada leaves him off.
Being the captain of a team that took a serious nose dive doesnt help your cause when your in competition for spots like these either. I dont blame Richards for Phillys struggles but without a doubt its harder to look good when your losing night in night out.

There is a lot of talk that his play hasnt been up to par lately. I havent watched him recently to have a take on his play as of late.

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Old
12-24-2009, 06:01 PM
  #124
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Does anyone think there is any chance that either:

1) Martin St. Louis is capable of playing LW?
or
2) They would break up the Marleau-Thornton-Heatley line?

I am asking because I would really like to see a guy like St. Louis on the team. But that would require either "1" or "2".

If it is "1", then you simply put him on a line with Getzlaf-Perry.

If it is "2", then you move one of Marleau or Heatley down to play with Getzlaf-Perry, play whichever one stays to the left of Thornton, and then play St. Louis to the right of Thornton.

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Old
12-24-2009, 10:06 PM
  #125
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Gagne - Crosby- Iginla
Nash - Thornton- Heatley
B.Richards - Lecavalier - St- Louis
Toews - M.Richards - Perry

Niedemayer - Weber
Pronger - Boyle
Bouwmeester - Keith
Seabrook

Brodeur
Luongo
Fleury

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