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Staal/MDZ are the Rangers Seabrook/Keith

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Old
12-22-2009, 07:38 PM
  #1
RangerBoy
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Staal/MDZ are the Rangers Seabrook/Keith

The Hawks have two young excellent defensemen in Brent Seabrook(24 years old) and Duncan Keith(26 years old). Both players have established themselves as cornerstones of that franchise. The Hawks 13 year commitment to Keith reinforces their belief in him. Seabrook will be take care of when his contract expires after 2010-11. As long as they have those two players,they can move around the other pieces on defense.

Marc Staal and Michael Del Zotto are younger players than both Hawk players. Staalsy and MDZ should be linchpins of the franchise. Staal is 2 points away from matching last season's point total of 15(career high). Ever since John Tortorella pulled him aside in practice and they had a long animated cordial conversation,Staal has been excellent. Torts wanted Staal to be something he wasn't and Staal really wasn't sure what Torts wanted. Torts wanted Staal to add more offense to his game while Staal thought that meant he should carry the puck and lead the rush. He is not a power play pointman(not at this stage of his career). Staal went back to being Staal and has added more offense to his game. Staal plays better with the more ice-time he receives. With the way he plays,25 minutes is not a problem. He only gets stronger.

MDZ isn't producing offensively at the clip he was producing earlier in the season but his game has grown. Except for last night when the Rangers had only 1 power play,MDZ is playing at least 20 minutes per game as a 19 year old kid. His stretch pass to Marian Gaborik is sick. He hasn't looked out of place. He competes. Plays a physical game. His play in his own end isn't a problem. When Delly is on the ice,you don't sit there and wonder how will he make it through the shift. His PP skills are top notch.

The Rangers need to get Staal signed this summer and they still have two more seasons of MDZ playing under his ELC. Going forward they need to figure where the other pieces fit. Dan Girardi is a group II this summer who is arbitration eligible and could be a group III in 2011. Matt Gilroy has another year on his contract and will be a group II in 2011 with arb rights and then could be a group III in 2012. Not going to mention the R&R boys.

Ryan McDonagh and Bobby Sanguinetti are not far from being NHL players. Then you have Ilkka Heikkinen,Michael Sauer and Corey Potter.

Decisions will made but Staal and MDZ will be the staples of the team along with Henrik Lundqvist. The Hawks have Kane and Toews. The Rangers have Gaborik. Only one more elite forward to go

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12-22-2009, 07:40 PM
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Yeah except, they aren't as good.

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12-22-2009, 07:46 PM
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The Hawks I feel like aren't the worst comparison to us. Our top end talent is better than theirs, (Not a player on their roster I'd trade Gaborik or Lundqvist for) but they are so god damn deeps its not even funny. Like we say all the time that we have a team of 3rd liners, and Gaborik and Lundqvist. They barely have a player on their squad that I'd consider a 3rd liner, 2nd liners and up all around (outside the 4th).

Chicago is so good

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12-22-2009, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
\The Hawks have Kane and Toews. The Rangers have Gaborik. Only one more elite forward to go
Then of course that pesky secondary scoring issue. Kane, Toews, Keith and Seabrook are a great foundation but don't forget that they're surrounded by the likes of Patrick Sharp, Marian Hossa, Kris Versteeg, Andrew Ladd, Dave Bolland and Dusty. We're a long ways off from emulating the Hawks.

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12-22-2009, 07:52 PM
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Just an opinion but I think MDZ would be better off logging on average 15 minutes a game than top 4 ice time of 20 or more. The reason he's been getting more is the two older vets haven't always been able to hold up their end. I think he'd be more effective in a smaller role which revolved around him being the pwp quarterback. I'm kind of wondering how he's going to hold up towards the end of the season--wondering if as young as he is if he's going to wear down.

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12-22-2009, 07:55 PM
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Right now our defensive cornerstones are supposed to be Rozsival and Redden...

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12-22-2009, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Yeah except, they aren't as good.
they are better at their ages then the chicago pair were at staal and mdz ages.

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Old
12-22-2009, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Yeah except, they aren't as good.
This is one of the most stupid comments I have read on this forum in the past decade and + years. And I have read a lot.

You got any idea how average both Keith and S. where in the age of MDZ and Staal? I mean, the expression "average" was a compliment to their development and game back then.

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12-22-2009, 10:18 PM
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Yeah except, they aren't as good.
Seriously man? Come on. I think you are burying that hatchet a little early.

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12-22-2009, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
The Hawks I feel like aren't the worst comparison to us. Our top end talent is better than theirs, (Not a player on their roster I'd trade Gaborik or Lundqvist for) but they are so god damn deeps its not even funny. Like we say all the time that we have a team of 3rd liners, and Gaborik and Lundqvist. They barely have a player on their squad that I'd consider a 3rd liner, 2nd liners and up all around (outside the 4th).

Chicago is so good
I'd trade Gaborik for Toews in a minute.

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12-22-2009, 10:33 PM
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I'd trade Gaborik for Toews in a minute.
No chance. Are you feeling okay?

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Old
12-22-2009, 11:18 PM
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No chance. Are you feeling okay?
Ehhhh.............I would think about it..likely not pull the trigger though. If we were a garbage team and had no chance for the playoffs this year or the next i'd make the deal.

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Old
12-22-2009, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reader View Post
This is one of the most stupid comments I have read on this forum in the past decade and + years. And I have read a lot.

You got any idea how average both Keith and S. where in the age of MDZ and Staal? I mean, the expression "average" was a compliment to their development and game back then.
Remember when we were "this close" to acquiring Seabrook for Petr Prucha and a draft pick?

I don't know if we were ever "this close" but I do know (firsthand) there were discussions. How sweet would that have been?

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12-22-2009, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Reader View Post
This is one of the most stupid comments I have read on this forum in the past decade and + years. And I have read a lot.

You got any idea how average both Keith and S. where in the age of MDZ and Staal? I mean, the expression "average" was a compliment to their development and game back then.
Alright, put it up to vote on the main board. Independent voters only. We'll see who's stupid.

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Old
12-23-2009, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Remember when we were "this close" to acquiring Seabrook for Petr Prucha and a draft pick?

I don't know if we were ever "this close" but I do know (firsthand) there were discussions. How sweet would that have been?
Those were garbage rumors. I believe when Chicago's GM was asked about it, he laughed.

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Old
12-23-2009, 12:10 AM
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The problem with this thread is that it fails to note that Chicago has Cam Barker too. It's a bit early to pencil in McDonagh as a match for him don't you think?

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12-23-2009, 02:44 AM
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Seabrook and Keith are now being ranked as the best defensive pair in the league....

Canada's GM is adding both of them to the Olympic team and pairing them on the same line...((that's how elite these two are))

The Black Hawks blue liners in general are amazing.. i mean come on, Barker and Campbell are not your average joes either.


Saying that you could try to compare one of our defensive pairs using Staal and Girardi... not del zotto

While Del Zotto will be elite((with time)) he is very offensive minded

Seabrook and Keith are more defensive shut down players.

But once we rid our selves of defense men like Rozsival and Redden and bring some of the pack up... we will be contend for the best defense in the league.




and for anybody who would rather have toews over gabby is retarded...

Toews is not even on the same level as gabby

Toews on our team would be a bigger failure than adding Gomez.

I am truly upset with people who would give gabby up for a tier 2 player.

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Old
12-23-2009, 04:47 AM
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Maybe I'm tunnel-visioned but I don't really care abour comparisons with guys on other teams.

I'm more than satisfied with both Staal and Del Zotto. There's enough substance in both of them that I'm not forced to look for silver linings like I had to do with draft picks like Malhotra, Lundmark and Korpikowski.


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12-23-2009, 05:29 AM
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More like Seabrook/Keith are the Blackhawks Staal/MDZ


Last edited by EmDeeZee4MVP: 12-23-2009 at 09:42 AM.
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12-23-2009, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Remember when we were "this close" to acquiring Seabrook for Petr Prucha and a draft pick?

I don't know if we were ever "this close" but I do know (firsthand) there were discussions. How sweet would that have been?
Exactly what I was going to say, and it was going to be a bad trade for us at the time. Seabrook has only been Seabrook for two seasons now and Keith has been better than good for 3 or 4.

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12-23-2009, 06:28 AM
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The problem with this thread is that it fails to note that Chicago has Cam Barker too. It's a bit early to pencil in McDonagh as a match for him don't you think?
I think that Barker might get moved this year as a cap casualty. In a way Rangerboy addressed it. He said that as long as you have your top 2 taken care of, you can move around the other pieces. The Rangers have lack a true top pair for years now. We still lack it, but we have the pieces that will solve that issues for years to come. It's like Pronger/MacInnis, or Pronger Neidermeyer... when you have two elite defenders that can log 30 minutes each, you only have to worry about 60 minutes of ice time spread out between 4 other defenders. We'll have the choice of Sanguinetti, Girardi, McD, Sauer, Heikkenen and Gilroy just for starters.

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12-23-2009, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by D713B View Post
Then of course that pesky secondary scoring issue. Kane, Toews, Keith and Seabrook are a great foundation but don't forget that they're surrounded by the likes of Patrick Sharp, Marian Hossa, Kris Versteeg, Andrew Ladd, Dave Bolland and Dusty. We're a long ways off from emulating the Hawks.
The Rangers have done well enough in the draft and have some good secondary players. Most of the players you mentioned were acquired in trades(Sharp,Versteeg and Ladd).Hossa was a free agent signing.

Toews and Kane make all of the difference for that team. It doesn't matter about the rest of the guys.

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12-23-2009, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
The problem with this thread is that it fails to note that Chicago has Cam Barker too. It's a bit early to pencil in McDonagh as a match for him don't you think?
Cam Barker will probably be a cap casualty this summer. He makes too much money due to Dale Tallon screwing up the QO's last summer.

The Swedish kid Hjalmarsson is a good player who the Hawks can re-sign for cheaper than $3 million.


Last edited by RangerBoy: 12-23-2009 at 07:20 AM.
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12-23-2009, 07:17 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I think that Barker might get moved this year as a cap casualty. In a way Rangerboy addressed it. He said that as long as you have your top 2 taken care of, you can move around the other pieces. The Rangers have lack a true top pair for years now. We still lack it, but we have the pieces that will solve that issues for years to come. It's like Pronger/MacInnis, or Pronger Neidermeyer... when you have two elite defenders that can log 30 minutes each, you only have to worry about 60 minutes of ice time spread out between 4 other defenders. We'll have the choice of Sanguinetti, Girardi, McD, Sauer, Heikkenen and Gilroy just for starters.
Thank you very much. Someone who gets it.

It's up to Rangers management to make the correct choices but they have the pieces to keep or move.

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Old
12-23-2009, 07:44 AM
  #25
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Just an opinion but I think MDZ would be better off logging on average 15 minutes a game than top 4 ice time of 20 or more. The reason he's been getting more is the two older vets haven't always been able to hold up their end. I think he'd be more effective in a smaller role which revolved around him being the pwp quarterback. I'm kind of wondering how he's going to hold up towards the end of the season--wondering if as young as he is if he's going to wear down.
I think 15 is too little...around 18 or so would be good.

It doesn't help that the number of PP's has gone down a lot around the league so he doesn't get tons of PP time each game (or at least it seems like they've gone down)

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