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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Why don't the Panthers

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Old
12-22-2009, 12:26 PM
  #1
Melrose Munch
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Why don't the Panthers

play in Miami? That's a simple easy solution to be top 10 in money an revenue, so why not?

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12-22-2009, 12:45 PM
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Bear of Bad News
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What exactly makes it simple or easy?

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12-22-2009, 12:50 PM
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And why would that automatically put them in the top ten in revenue?

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12-22-2009, 01:13 PM
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Buck Aki Berg
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I'm pretty sure that the taxpayers who paid for this publicly-funded redundancy (seriously, American Airlines Center is a half-hour away) would be pissed to see thie $185 million go to waste.

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12-22-2009, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
I'm pretty sure that the taxpayers who paid for this publicly-funded redundancy (seriously, American Airlines Center is a half-hour away) would be pissed to see thie $185 million go to waste.
It already is going to waste, they can fill the place.

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12-22-2009, 01:51 PM
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kdb209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindrosfan88 View Post
play in Miami? That's a simple easy solution to be top 10 in money an revenue, so why not?
Simple, Easy - Nope.

So why aren't the Miami Heat who do play in downtown Miami a "top 10 in money an revenue"?

The Heat who privately financed $185M of the $255M cost of the American Airlines Arena are #12 in revenues (according to Forbes), but are only #26 in the league in profits (Operating Revenue) due to debt payments - they the fifth highest in debt/value ratio and are #3 in total debt.

Meanwhile, the Panthers basically got an Arena for free - financed totally with public money.

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12-22-2009, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Simple, Easy - Nope.

So why aren't the Miami Heat who do play in downtown Miami a "top 10 in money an revenue"?

The Heat who privately financed $185M of the $255M cost of the American Airlines Arena are #12 in revenues (according to Forbes), but are only #26 in the league in profits (Operating Revenue) due to debt payments - they the fifth highest in debt/value ratio and are #3 in total debt.

Meanwhile, the Panthers basically got an Arena for free - financed totally with public money.
add to that, the Panthers and Heat were co-tenants in Miami..... some need to do a bit of research....

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12-22-2009, 03:39 PM
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Melrose Munch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
add to that, the Panthers and Heat were co-tenants in Miami..... some need to do a bit of research....
I know this they played at the old arena that was imploded in 2008.

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12-22-2009, 03:40 PM
  #9
Melrose Munch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
And why would that automatically put them in the top ten in revenue?
Miami is a huge money area.

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12-22-2009, 03:41 PM
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Melrose Munch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Simple, Easy - Nope.

So why aren't the Miami Heat who do play in downtown Miami a "top 10 in money an revenue"?

The Heat who privately financed $185M of the $255M cost of the American Airlines Arena are #12 in revenues (according to Forbes), but are only #26 in the league in profits (Operating Revenue) due to debt payments - they the fifth highest in debt/value ratio and are #3 in total debt.

Meanwhile, the Panthers basically got an Arena for free - financed totally with public money.
Really, I thought they sold all the high price seats to the rich like the Leafs do.

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:19 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Meanwhile, the Panthers basically got an Arena for free - financed totally with public money.

Panthers are paying part of financing costs, interest but they had some difficulty to pay their part this year, they asked county if terms can be changed, i.e make loan period longer, but then eventually team paid their share.
Also Panthers pay part (or all?) of arena's windstorm insurance, but then county agreed that arena can stay underinsured, meaning insurance pays part and taxpayers rest if something catastrophical happens to arena.

JOL

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindrosfan88 View Post
Miami is a huge money area.
so is Ft Lauderdale

I lived there for 2 years and ft lauderdale has lots and lots of money

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12-23-2009, 01:57 PM
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don't the Panthers manage their own building? if so, there's your answer. they jumped first, gambled, and lost, at least on the hockey end of things.

but it doesn't matter anyway, south florida is front-runner city. watch some Heat games when they suck, it's a ghost town. they may sell some of the tickets, but the people don't bother showing up.

from a population standpoint, I don't think it makes much of a difference, Sunrise is pretty close to the middle of Dade/Broward/Palm Beach. Miami clearly isn't.

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12-24-2009, 08:00 PM
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Add to all this the fact that they found years back that the bulk of thier fanbase was located in Broward (Ft Laud/Sunrise areas) & Palm Beach Counties because there, you have/had more of the transplanted northerners & snowbirds from Canada, who would have an easier time getting to an arena in Broward County. Miami has more of a Latino population, which is one reason the Marlins wanted thier new ballpark in Miami.

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Old
12-25-2009, 05:25 PM
  #15
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All they have to do is win. Once they start winning the revenues will go up. South Florida is as fickle of a sport market as there is.

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12-25-2009, 05:39 PM
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The Panthers consistently fill up 75% of their building and they haven't made the playoffs since Clinton was president. Compare that, for example, to the Pens who just before the lockout were averaging about 11,000 in attendance. There is nothing wrong with the arena where it is. Broward County/Fort Lauderdale is a strong hockey market. As others have said, if they win, they'll do even better with attendance. This is a huge bandwagon town. IMO there are more hockey fans in Broward County than in Dade County(Miami). All the sellouts at the old Miami Arena were a bit misleading as that arena was tiny.

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12-25-2009, 08:14 PM
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John Torturella
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Id say eliminate the Panthers, heck all professional sports from Florida altogether. Its apparent they dont care about their teams. They only show up when they are in championship games.

Look at baseball. The Rays were in the World Series last year and they still had tons of empty seats last year. The Marlins have won 2 championships in the last 12 years and look at the disaster they have there. Look at the Jaguars who are above .500 and can't fill half of a stadium.

Florida is a joke when it comes to sports. There are plenty of places that would love to have pro sports team and would actually show up to their games.

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01-04-2010, 02:55 AM
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I dont think it would make a difference. Sunrise isnt that far and its all highway driving.

One of the best arena in the league imo.

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01-04-2010, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yooper wings fan View Post
It already is going to waste, they can fill the place.
Killin me Smalls...someone mentioned the Pens, good thing Lemieux stepped in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
Id say eliminate the Panthers, heck all professional sports from Florida altogether. Its apparent they dont care about their teams. They only show up when they are in championship games.

Look at baseball. The Rays were in the World Series last year and they still had tons of empty seats last year. The Marlins have won 2 championships in the last 12 years and look at the disaster they have there. Look at the Jaguars who are above .500 and can't fill half of a stadium.

Florida is a joke when it comes to sports. There are plenty of places that would love to have pro sports team and would actually show up to their games.
What? We care about our teams, fans here won't support a consistent loser. People were crazy about the Marlins until they traded everyone away...and continue to do so. People felt betrayed.

A lot of people have jumped on the Rays bandwagon, but they were also awful for a very long time. People pay more attention to them that you think they do.

The Jags are in...Jacksonville. No one really understood why they were being placed there, and most people have already been long fans of the Phins or the Bucs. I'll cheer for them, but I don't really care much about them.

Panthers haven't won in a decade, a DECADE. Really, ask yourself if you or most of those that you know would show up to a team who gives you nothing for 10 years. I know the answer I'll get, but I know that myself and my friends are true die-hards. They still sell most of their arena, hockey's grown like wildfire here as well.

It's always easy to blast what you have never walked in, it's a whole different story when you're in the shoes.

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01-04-2010, 06:57 PM
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A large part of the reason why the Panthers are in Sunrise and not Miami is that South Florida is very built out. Broward is built out all the way to the Everglades, which is why the arena is butting up against it. It's not hard to get to, my mom lives in Eastern Palm Beach County in Boynton Beach and I can get to the arena in 35-45 minutes in rush hour traffic.

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Old
01-05-2010, 01:03 AM
  #21
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I hear that rink is quite busy....the rumoured deal of the Panthers sale basically threw the team in for free. The sale didn't happen (that I know of), but that should say something when the main value is the building and land...not the team. The team seriously would have been lowered in value to like $20M if that deal went through.

78% capacity every night isn't exactly "hockey mad". This is another market that falls into the cycle. Winning will mean more fans? Well..when the team doesn't win less show up. Revenue goes down. Costs get cut. Wins go down. Attendance goes down. Revenue goes down. Costs get cut. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

From what I understand this team (as well as the Lightning) are hanging on by a thread. It's gotta be tough losing 10 to 15 million a year...have 50% of the franchise value tied up in debt...and continue to carry on. The team's value is also dropping.

Want a solution? Drop ticket prices to an average closer to Buffalo or Tampa Bay. Get the fans in there....see if they come back. The average ticket price in Miami is $48.76 while in TBay it is $35.76 and Buffalo is $36.43. This isn't a long term solution...but should help create a larger fan base.

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Old
01-05-2010, 10:47 AM
  #22
Danny Woodhead
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http://panthers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=512281

Attendance-wise, they've had themselves a good week:

"All told, 56,760 guests visited the BankAtlantic Center during the last three home games vs. Pittsburgh (18,110), Montreal (19,851) and Boston (18,799), leading to an incredible atmosphere for Panthers fans, and maximum exposure for Panthers sponsors and supporters."

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Old
01-05-2010, 11:11 AM
  #23
Buck Aki Berg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7pantera7 View Post
http://panthers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=512281

Attendance-wise, they've had themselves a good week:

"All told, 56,760 guests visited the BankAtlantic Center during the last three home games vs. Pittsburgh (18,110), Montreal (19,851) and Boston (18,799), leading to an incredible atmosphere for Panthers fans, and maximum exposure for Panthers sponsors and supporters."
I'm wondering how many of those in attendance received tickets for these games as gifts. These were the first home games after Christmas, and in general, the first games after the holidays are usually the ones that get purchased as gifts (as opposes to "Merry Christmas, you're going to a hockey game! In April! ). Also, those are three big-ticket opponents (and if the Habs/Bolts game was any indication, it's not unreasonable to speculate that half the building was Habs fans on New Years Eve).

It's great to see them getting butts in the seats, but I'm not certain that those three games can be used to make inferences as to how well they're doing at the gate.

..and good on the organization for using those attendance figures as a marketing tool. If you can spin it as a trend to make tickets for future games appear to be scarce, you might be able to bolster demand a bit.

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