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Old
12-22-2009, 05:35 PM
  #26
Ronaldo
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Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
Bro, you're not a lawyer anymore and this isn't a courtcase. CALM DOWN.
This.

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Old
12-22-2009, 05:41 PM
  #27
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Do you think adding a player who takes way to many penalties to a team with a terrible penalty kill is a smart idea?

Hartnell leads his team in minor penalties taken by a wide margin. He also receives minimal time on the PK. He doesn't take face offs and doesn't play center.

How the **** is this trade helping the Canucks?


You don't want Hartnell? If you want that snarl and grit you've been after it'll come with discipline issues more often than not. By 'behind the net's' count Hartnell has taken 3 more penalties than he's drawn. That's pretty standard for a player that brings that element to your lineup.

As for the deal, I'd do it from a Canuck standpoint. Hartnell at $4.2mil makes more sense than having Bernier earn $2mil to play in the bottom 6. Coburn's struggles this season will only help get him locked up to a very good contract over the next 2-4 years, whereas Bieksa isn't coming anywhere close to good value for his deal. Schneider is a throw in worth something in the range of a 2nd rd pick.

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Old
12-22-2009, 05:42 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
So you provided misleading information?
haha wrong thread sorry,here is the real thread http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=717043

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Old
12-22-2009, 05:42 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
Bro, you're not a lawyer anymore and this isn't a courtcase. CALM DOWN.
I am perfectly calm - I do not need to SHOUT at posters. I am also not your "Bro" nor am I a "dude", etc.

I am simply pointing out to the poster that when you provide misleading information and ask for comments, why would you be surprised when the comments are not what you expect?

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Old
12-22-2009, 05:45 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
I am perfectly calm - I do not need to SHOUT at posters. I am also not your "Bro" nor am I a "dude", etc.

I am simply pointing out to the poster that when you provide misleading information and ask for comments, why would you be surprised when the comments are not what you expect?
Sorry I should you the wrong thread ,the right thread is in my last post.

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Old
12-22-2009, 05:48 PM
  #31
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The Flyers are desperate for some goaltending. We may be able to swindle a better package out of them if Schnieder is included.

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Old
12-22-2009, 05:50 PM
  #32
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I wouldn't touch Hartnell with a 10 foot pole....the guy is a meathead. Replace Hartnell with Giroux or JVR and we've got something.

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Old
12-22-2009, 05:56 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Sorry I should you the wrong thread ,the right thread is in my last post.
My comments still stand. Hartnell is slow and undisciplined.

Why would you want Hartnell and his $4.2 million cap hit for 3 1/2 more years when the problem is depth at centre?

Coburn just has not developed as predicted and now is another in long line of Flyers Dmen masquerading as a pylon.

It simply does not seem to be a trade that helps the Canucks.

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Old
12-22-2009, 06:28 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post


You don't want Hartnell? If you want that snarl and grit you've been after it'll come with discipline issues more often than not. By 'behind the net's' count Hartnell has taken 3 more penalties than he's drawn. That's pretty standard for a player that brings that element to your lineup.
You'll find, if you read many of my posts, that I don't fit many stereotypes. While many often attempt to fit me into the box of always wanting toughness, etc, I can often prioritize team needs.

IMO C. Armstrong or A. Ladd both provide more physicality and grit than Hartnell and will cost far less. Both Armstrong and Ladd are much faster, and more disciplined. Hartnell leads the entire NHL in minor penalties taken, Ladd sits at 312th, and Armstrong is 402nd. Now thats ****ing discipline, for what they do .

They may not score 30 goals, but that contract Hartnell has is a killer. If Hartnell helped our PK, or our center ice depth, I would agree. But this trade doesn't really get at the root of the Canucks problems to date.


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Old
12-22-2009, 06:31 PM
  #35
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One thing is for certain, we do need to add toughness, Hartnell is not the answer.

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Old
12-22-2009, 07:04 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post


You don't want Hartnell? If you want that snarl and grit you've been after it'll come with discipline issues more often than not. By 'behind the net's' count Hartnell has taken 3 more penalties than he's drawn. That's pretty standard for a player that brings that element to your lineup.

As for the deal, I'd do it from a Canuck standpoint. Hartnell at $4.2mil makes more sense than having Bernier earn $2mil to play in the bottom 6. Coburn's struggles this season will only help get him locked up to a very good contract over the next 2-4 years, whereas Bieksa isn't coming anywhere close to good value for his deal. Schneider is a throw in worth something in the range of a 2nd rd pick.
Bernier, using that "behindthenet" database, has drawn 4 more penalties than he's taken (actually, he's taken zero which is the more key stat). That's a swing of 7 penalties. This team can't afford to take even one more minor penalty than necessary.

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Old
12-22-2009, 07:37 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Replace Hartnell with Giroux or JVR and we've got something.
They won't let go of Giroux or JVR, I'm thinking their defensive prospect Kevin Marshall would be of sufficient return if goaltending prospect C. Schneider is going their way.

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Old
12-22-2009, 08:07 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post


You don't want Hartnell? If you want that snarl and grit you've been after it'll come with discipline issues more often than not. By 'behind the net's' count Hartnell has taken 3 more penalties than he's drawn. That's pretty standard for a player that brings that element to your lineup.

As for the deal, I'd do it from a Canuck standpoint. Hartnell at $4.2mil makes more sense than having Bernier earn $2mil to play in the bottom 6. Coburn's struggles this season will only help get him locked up to a very good contract over the next 2-4 years, whereas Bieksa isn't coming anywhere close to good value for his deal. Schneider is a throw in worth something in the range of a 2nd rd pick.
Only 10 of Hartnell's 25 penalties were coincidental minors, so I'm not sure where BTN is getting those numbers.

Also, where do you play him in our top 6? He's not smart enough and (IMO) doesn't work hard enough to play with the Sedins....and he's way too slow to play with Raymond and Kesler....so where does he fit in?

I'm all for increasing the grit on this team if it makes sense, but swapping Hartnell for Bernier just doesn't make a lot of sense.....Andrew Ladd on the other hand would be a perfect fit.

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Old
12-22-2009, 09:24 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CoHo777 View Post
They won't let go of Giroux or JVR, I'm thinking their defensive prospect Kevin Marshall would be of sufficient return if goaltending prospect C. Schneider is going their way.
No thanks.

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12-22-2009, 11:08 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
No thanks.
Any reason? team doesn't need a good defensive prospect?

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Old
12-23-2009, 02:27 AM
  #41
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Coburn is an extremely solid player, could end up being another Ehrhoff pick-up if we managed to get him...he's still very young too.

Hartnell, yuck, with his cap hit and lack of discipline, no thanks.

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Old
12-23-2009, 02:43 AM
  #42
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Hartnell also plays with amazing centers in Richards Carter and Briere.

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Old
12-23-2009, 09:39 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by CoHo777 View Post
Any reason? team doesn't need a good defensive prospect?
If I'm giving up Schneider I want more than Marshall in return, but thats just me.

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Old
12-23-2009, 12:28 PM
  #44
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No, why give Bernier away? I mean I for one like how hes been playing. And Bieksas in a slump IMO we all know how good he is when hes confidant and on a roll.. The only guy I dont want is Schneider.

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Old
12-23-2009, 01:45 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
If I'm giving up Schneider I want more than Marshall in return, but thats just me.
Unproven NHL goalies with some AHL success have very little if any value.

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Old
12-23-2009, 01:57 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Unproven NHL goalies with some AHL success have very little if any value.
Yeah,thats why the Canucks don't trade him know cause he's unproven,they need to showcase him,somehow.The only way Schneider could get the Canucks a proven NHL player would be in a package IMO.

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Old
12-23-2009, 03:12 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Yeah,thats why the Canucks don't trade him know cause he's unproven,they need to showcase him,somehow.The only way Schneider could get the Canucks a proven NHL player would be in a package IMO.
As I said he has little value - other than as throw in.

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Old
12-23-2009, 03:27 PM
  #48
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doesn't schneider's contract end next season?

anyways, he doesnt have much value, so canuck fans should stop dreaming of getting jvr, giroux, etc. that's not happening. his value is probably as high as a 2nd round draft pick or as a throw-in suggested early. but personally, that seems like a waste, when we spent 5 years developing a guy from the 1st round.

the best case scenerio is to re-sign schneider to a 1 or 2 year deal and have him back-up for 20 games each season. showcase his abilities just to get his value a bit higher. maybe gillis can then rip-off a team ala san jose style.

canucks will compromise, because schneider will likely make twice as much as a regular back-up, in the range of 1-1.5 million a year, so that may take a bit of cap space.

moral of the story: do not draft goalies in the first round unless luongo is 35 years old.

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12-23-2009, 03:34 PM
  #49
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When we drafted Schneider we still had question marks in net.....

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Old
12-23-2009, 03:39 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
doesn't schneider's contract end next season?

anyways, he doesnt have much value, so canuck fans should stop dreaming of getting jvr, giroux, etc. that's not happening. his value is probably as high as a 2nd round draft pick or as a throw-in suggested early. but personally, that seems like a waste, when we spent 5 years developing a guy from the 1st round.

the best case scenerio is to re-sign schneider to a 1 or 2 year deal and have him back-up for 20 games each season. showcase his abilities just to get his value a bit higher. maybe gillis can then rip-off a team ala san jose style.

canucks will compromise, because schneider will likely make twice as much as a regular back-up, in the range of 1-1.5 million a year, so that may take a bit of cap space.

moral of the story: do not draft goalies in the first round unless luongo is 35 years old.
At the time Schneider was drafted the Canucks did not have Luongo - it was Dan Cloutier manning the nets.

If Schneider does not play sufficient NHL games (28) by the time he is 25 (end of the 2010-11 season assuming he does not sign a contract extending beyond that season) then he will be a Group 6 free agent. He must actually play at least 30 minutes for a game to count for these purposes. Sitting on the bench as a back up does not count. To date he has played 10 games.

Quote:
Group 6 Free Agents.

(i) Means any Player who is age 25 or older who has completed three (3) or more professional seasons, whose SPC has expired and: (i) in the case of a Player other than a goaltender, has played less than 80 NHL Games, or (ii) in the case of a goaltender, has played less than 28 NHL Games (for the purpose of this definition, a goaltender must have played a minimum of thirty (30) minutes in
an NHL Game to register a game played).

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