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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

World Junior Hockey should be added to the Olympics

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Old
12-22-2009, 10:46 PM
  #1
leafsfuture
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World Junior Hockey should be added to the Olympics

World Junior hockey is very popular event in Canada and in Europe, and I would like to see the best U - 20's from all countries play against eachother.

This would mean that on the Olympic years, the tourney move from Janurary to February.

This would allow Canadians to see Tavares, Stamkos, Hogson Kane, Myers and Del Zotta all playing against their peers for a Gold medal.

What do you all think about this suggestion?

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12-22-2009, 10:47 PM
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Jim Morrison
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imo too lopsided. would be like the soviet domination

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12-22-2009, 10:50 PM
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It has been suggested before, and with the NHL quivering on their decision to send their players to Sochi in 2014 and planning a World Cup for fall 2011, it does become a real possibility at some point. Of course, much of this talk comes from the fact that the Olympic soccer tournament is essentially a U23 (with some exceptions), as FIFA wants their World Cup to be their major worldwide showcase for the sport.

Personally, I think both entities in hockey should be separate. Being an Olympic champion should mean that you are the best in the world. By making it a U20 tournament, you are essentially making the Olympic Champion the "best team at that age group, at that particular point in time." For instance, if 2006 and 2010 WJC were at the Olympics, players like Price, Toews, Tavares and Kane would never have the chance to win an Olympic medal. Instead, players like Chipchura, Latendresse and Pogge would be Olympic champions. That would tend to cheapen the value of an Olympic gold IMO.

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12-22-2009, 10:54 PM
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I like having the world juniors every year, every four years would be brutal.

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12-22-2009, 10:55 PM
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leafsfuture
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricolore#20 View Post
It has been suggested before, and with the NHL quivering on their decision to send their players to Sochi in 2014 and planning a World Cup for fall 2011, it does become a real possibility at some point. Of course, much of this talk comes from the fact that the Olympic soccer tournament is essentially a U23 (with some exceptions), as FIFA wants their World Cup to be their major worldwide showcase for the sport.

Personally, I think both entities in hockey should be separate. Being an Olympic champion should mean that you are the best in the world. By making it a U20 tournament, you are essentially making the Olympic Champion the "best team at that age group, at that particular point in time." For instance, if 2006 and 2010 WJC were at the Olympics, players like Price, Toews, Tavares and Kane would never have the chance to win an Olympic medal. Instead, players like Chipchura, Latendresse and Pogge would be Olympic champions. That would tend to cheapen the value of an Olympic gold IMO.
Very true.

But I think since you already have an International event 2 months before, why not just move it back 2 mths.

And by the way is the 2010 Olympics had Juniors Tavares would be able to play. And guys like Duchene and Del Zotto would get a chance to represent their countries.

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12-22-2009, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
Very true.

But I think since you already have an International event 2 months before, why not just move it back 2 mths.

And by the way is the 2010 Olympics had Juniors Tavares would be able to play. And guys like Duchene and Del Zotto would get a chance to represent their countries.
While technically, players like Tavares, Duchene and Stamkos in 2010, and Crosby in 2006 would theoretically be available for the U20 in those respective years, the major reason for which there would be a junior tournament at the Olympics instead of a best-on-best is because the NHL owners are unwilling to send their players to the Olympics. If that is the case, exceptional players that are still eligible to play in the World Jrs/U20 Olympics, but who otherwise made their NHL clubs would not be released by their clubs for these Olympics.

If the World Jrs were in Vancouver this coming February, why would the Islanders release John Tavares, or the Lightning release Stamkos, when their NHL clubs are concurrently playing games?

The bottom line is that if the NHL is not releasing its players, who are the best in the world for the Olympics, the value of the Olympics is immediately lessened.

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12-22-2009, 11:10 PM
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The Nemesis
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The WJCs are not terribly popular in Europe. Not nearly to the ultra-obsessive degree that TSN has fostered here in Canada.

And perhaps the WJCs would be integrated into the olympics once the pro agreement is done. It would make it slightly more fair than the prior "amateur" method that still allowed European pros to compete. I would also suspect in this kind of setup the WJCs would not be restricted to once every 4 years, but simply that teh olympics replace the WJCs in any year where they would overlap, and the WJCs would simply happen as normal in the other 3 years.


EDIT: also, doesn't Olympic soccer work as a WJC-style setup? I mean obviously high-level pros don't play, but don't they craft the teams out of younger players?

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12-22-2009, 11:11 PM
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U-20 is still fairly poor and slow hockey vs men's hockey. But U-24 (if such thing existed) would be phenomenal hockey and deserving the Olympics.

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12-22-2009, 11:14 PM
  #9
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FIFA's model is actually an interesting one that the NHL/IIHF/IOC could modify and use:

- Annual junior tournaments (U-16, U-18, U-20) in December/January, plus additional, smaller tournaments like the Memorial of Ivan Hlinka.
- Olympics every four years as a U-23/25 event at the Winter Games.
- World Cup every four years in the summer (to be held between Olympic competitions).
- World Championships every other spring (not held during Olympic years and World Cup years)

I think that would be a really cool format to have.

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12-22-2009, 11:17 PM
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I like how it is now. Separate WJC every Christmas holiday, WC every May, and Olympics every four years. I agree that the Olympics should be about the best in the world, with no age limit or limit on professionals. The World Cups are too inconsistent and unsystematic. The WC has many fans and is a more traditional event with a pool system that provides for diversity of participants. It should be held in Canada a bit more often than once a century. The world juniors should also keep on building its tradition as a holiday-time hockey event.

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12-22-2009, 11:18 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
And perhaps the WJCs would be integrated into the olympics once the pro agreement is done. It would make it slightly more fair than the prior "amateur" method that still allowed European pros to compete. I would also suspect in this kind of setup the WJCs would not be restricted to once every 4 years, but simply that teh olympics replace the WJCs in any year where they would overlap, and the WJCs would simply happen as normal in the other 3 years.
The thing I don't like about this is the difference in perceived "value" the same accomplishment merits. For instance, Mike Richards in 2005 (a non-Olympic year) would simply be the captain of a WJC champion. Meanwhile, Kyle Chipchura in 2006 (an Olympic year) would be an Olympic gold-medalist captain, and would get far greater "value" for his accomplishment around the world, simply for being an Olympic champion. This difference in "value" would be unreasonable, given that both players truly accomplished the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
EDIT: also, doesn't Olympic soccer work as a WJC-style setup? I mean obviously high-level pros don't play, but don't they craft the teams out of younger players?
The Olympic tournament in soccer is presently a U23 tournament. However, it is slightly altered because every team is allowed to have 3 "over-age" players. Thus, at the last Olympics, you had a veteran Ronaldinho playing with the youngsters. This type of arrangement has effectively made the Olympic tournament in soccer a third-rate type of tournament, that doesn't really merit much media attention around the world. This is especially true, because the European leagues kickoff around the same time of this tournament.

I fear that the NHL gets out of the Olympics, the IIHF comes up with a contrived tournament like FIFA's for the Olympics, and the value of an Olympic gold medal loses all meaning in future years.

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Old
12-22-2009, 11:20 PM
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The IIHF should scrap the World Championships and the top level hockey competition could be the Olympics and the World Cup, alternating every two years.

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12-22-2009, 11:22 PM
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Canada can send whomever the **** they want to the Olympics. The Olympics is for the best of the best, Tavares and company just aren't good enough for the team.. yet. Well, Stamkos might be...

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12-22-2009, 11:36 PM
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The best hockey game I have ever seen was Russia-Canada at the WC in Quebec city 20 months ago. The collective pace of the game was phenomenal, breathtaking. WC's are very underrated in North America because of the NHL dominance, which is too bad because on average it is a much better hockey than majority of the NHL games.

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12-22-2009, 11:54 PM
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or how about the Jr. Goodwill Games featuring the likes of Trinidad and Tobago, Iceland and Italy. I think we would be looking at a USA-Iceland gold medal game.

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12-23-2009, 12:09 AM
  #16
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The IIHF makes a fortune whenever the WJC is hosted in Canada or the northern U.S. (which is why it's hosted in NA so often now). If it became an Olympic event, every four years their money would shift into the pockets of the IOC. I doubt they'd give up even a portion of control of the tournament voluntarily.

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12-23-2009, 12:17 AM
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Just wondering how you guys figured this...

If the WJH became and olympic event and the WCH was scrapped, does that mean you think we can do away with Div 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 3A, and 3B in IIHF as well?

Those tournaments and countries lack importance to us?

I think it would be much better that those countries who are sobothered by the annual WCH or WJH just pull out of the IIHF. Singapore and Thailand are examples of countries that don't see the IIHF model work for them, so they are not members, but usually ice team in the Asian games.

Life's really too short, people.


Last edited by Ribban: 12-23-2009 at 12:26 AM. Reason: Mongolia is now a member of the IIHF
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Old
12-23-2009, 12:37 AM
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yeees U20 is so popular in Europe seem to me that there is a 2000-3000 people in Russia who care at all about junior hockey and not much more in other parts of europe.

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12-23-2009, 02:51 AM
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This would be a great way how to kill even the minor interest that there is in the WJC in Europe. Seriously who over here in Europe would watch much of some kids playing when your menīs national team (to many Europeans pretty much the most important aspect of hockey besides their club in the home league) is playing the best-on-best tournament there is?

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12-23-2009, 02:52 AM
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Forget about adding junior hockey, junior hockey should simply be the Olympic tournament.

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12-23-2009, 02:54 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
FIFA's model is actually an interesting one that the NHL/IIHF/IOC could modify and use:

- Annual junior tournaments (U-16, U-18, U-20) in December/January, plus additional, smaller tournaments like the Memorial of Ivan Hlinka.
- Olympics every four years as a U-23/25 event at the Winter Games.
- World Cup every four years in the summer (to be held between Olympic competitions).
- World Championships every other spring (not held during Olympic years and World Cup years)

I think that would be a really cool format to have.
Makes too much sense. It'll never happen.

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12-23-2009, 03:17 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
World Junior hockey is very popular event in Canada and in Europe, and I would like to see the best U - 20's from all countries play against eachother.

This would mean that on the Olympic years, the tourney move from Janurary to February.

This would allow Canadians to see Tavares, Stamkos, Hogson Kane, Myers and Del Zotta all playing against their peers for a Gold medal.

What do you all think about this suggestion?
lol woot

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12-23-2009, 03:36 AM
  #23
SchwenningerWildWing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
World Junior hockey is very popular event in Canada and in Europe, and I would like to see the best U - 20's from all countries play against eachother.

This would mean that on the Olympic years, the tourney move from Janurary to February.

This would allow Canadians to see Tavares, Stamkos, Hogson Kane, Myers and Del Zotta all playing against their peers for a Gold medal.

What do you all think about this suggestion?
Well, maybe in Sweden this event is popular because with Russia they are the only halfway competitive team, but in the rest of Europe only die hard hockey fans are interested in the WJC, so I don't think it is a good idea. Actually I think only Canada cares really about it. Also from a European standpoint I don't like the idea to let teenagers play for olympic gold. Maybe the NHL will not stop they're season for 2014 butI will guarantee you the European leagues will because an olympic season and an olympic tournament is something special

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12-23-2009, 04:56 AM
  #24
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Terrible.

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Old
12-23-2009, 05:34 AM
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No offence and sorry for letting you down, but nobody really gives a **** about WJC in europe where they generally watch ice hockey. For example where as from Finland 1million people watch World Hockey Championship's every may, maybe 2000 people watch WJC.

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