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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

World Junior Hockey should be added to the Olympics

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Old
12-24-2009, 05:22 AM
  #76
Mr Kanadensisk
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Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
No, the rules being fair makes it more legitimate than the NHL exhibition tournament called the world cup.
IIHF rules are only fair if you're from Europe.

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12-24-2009, 07:27 AM
  #77
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If the NHL pulls out of the Olympics, then it should obviously go to an U20 format. What's the alternative? KHLers pounding North American beer leaguers again? No thanks.

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12-24-2009, 10:37 AM
  #78
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If the NHL pulls out of the Olympics, then it should obviously go to an U20 format. What's the alternative? KHLers pounding North American beer leaguers again? No thanks.
So due to the NHL's shortsightedness we should change the format of the Olympics? Don't think so. The Olympics are not a junior tournament, they're a tournament to determine the best of the best in the world, which despite what some whipped Canadians may believe, is not the Canadian junior team. You can't simply change the tournament format to make it preferential to Canada winning the gold, instead of getting slaughtered by Europeans.

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12-24-2009, 10:55 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Macman View Post
If the NHL pulls out of the Olympics, then it should obviously go to an U20 format. What's the alternative? KHLers pounding North American beer leaguers again? No thanks.
So one rogue league decides to skip the Olympics and the IOC should then purposely devaluate the Games by banning players from all the other pro leagues?

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12-24-2009, 11:02 AM
  #80
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Actually if the NHL pulls out of Olympics it would open a great opportunity for the KHL to promote themselves as a premier hockey league. NHL or not, Olympic hockey will be watched, specially in Europe, so perhaps KHL would be the winner in such situation.

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12-24-2009, 11:37 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Macman View Post
If the NHL pulls out of the Olympics, then it should obviously go to an U20 format. What's the alternative? KHLers pounding North American beer leaguers again? No thanks.
It would be ridiculous to ban professionals just because canada wouldn't look as good.

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12-24-2009, 12:31 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
No, the rules being fair makes it more legitimate than the NHL exhibition tournament called the world cup.
It's not rules per se (though having the deciding games in Europe would level the playing field more) but rather the timing of the tournament. September just isn't a good time for a hockey tournament.

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12-24-2009, 01:29 PM
  #83
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Say what? You do realize the World Cup teams are the same players as the Olympic teams right? And that the tournament was started because the ebst of the best couldnt play in the Olympics at the time.
How much would you give credit if it was Finland Cup?

Games whenever it suited Finland the best. Finland minded reffing. Games in September when players are not in best fit.

You do realize that Olympic games is almost 3000 years old institution. Place where best go against the best and where legends are born. I want ice hockey players to be there alongside other legends. February also suits hockey because we get to see top players in they top form.

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12-24-2009, 02:19 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by v-man View Post
So due to the NHL's shortsightedness we should change the format of the Olympics? Don't think so. The Olympics are not a junior tournament, they're a tournament to determine the best of the best in the world, which despite what some whipped Canadians may believe, is not the Canadian junior team. You can't simply change the tournament format to make it preferential to Canada winning the gold, instead of getting slaughtered by Europeans.
I want the NHL's continued participation, but if they do pull out it will hardly be a tournament that will "determine the best in the world." Far from it, actually. It will become a meaningless joke again. Some countries will be able to ice decent teams while others will be scraping the bottom of the barrel again. Hardly the Olympic ideal.

If a junior-style format can be used for Olympic soccer, it can be used for hockey. It's better than the alternative.

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12-24-2009, 02:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
So one rogue league decides to skip the Olympics and the IOC should then purposely devaluate the Games by banning players from all the other pro leagues?
You make it sound like the banning of pros by the IOC has never happened before.

Olympic hockey without the NHL would already be devalued.

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12-24-2009, 02:34 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Macman View Post
I want the NHL's continued participation, but if they do pull out it will hardly be a tournament that will "determine the best in the world." Far from it, actually. It will become a meaningless joke again. Some countries will be able to ice decent teams while others will be scraping the bottom of the barrel again. Hardly the Olympic ideal.

If a junior-style format can be used for Olympic soccer, it can be used for hockey. It's better than the alternative.
Soccer has international games throughout the year, every year, where the best players are released without question during the season, this is why the Olympic soccer tournament is not a big draw, and why they've agreed to the U23 format. Between the World Cup, Euro Cup and all the qualifying rounds, they hardly need the Olympics to determine the best soccer nation. Hockey doesn't have that luxury.

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12-24-2009, 02:37 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by v-man View Post
Soccer has international games throughout the year, every year, where the best players are released without question during the season, this is why the Olympic soccer tournament is not a big draw, and why they've agreed to the U23 format. Between the World Cup, Euro Cup and all the qualifying rounds, they hardly need the Olympics to determine the best soccer nation. Hockey doesn't have that luxury.
Exactly, the World Cup and Euro Cups are BIGGER than the olympics. Hockey has no international tournament of hockey that is bigger than the olympics.

Its quite simple, in soccer, the World Cup is the most important international stage in soccer, in hockey, its the olympics.

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12-24-2009, 03:05 PM
  #88
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How much would you give credit if it was Finland Cup?

Games whenever it suited Finland the best. Finland minded reffing. Games in September when players are not in best fit.

You do realize that Olympic games is almost 3000 years old institution. Place where best go against the best and where legends are born. I want ice hockey players to be there alongside other legends. February also suits hockey because we get to see top players in they top form.
barf

cmon dude you can do better, there is no canada conspiracy theory.

second, the olympic games are not sacred, and not legendary. do you actually believe that crap?

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12-24-2009, 03:13 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
barf

cmon dude you can do better, there is no canada conspiracy theory.

second, the olympic games are not sacred, and not legendary. do you actually believe that crap?
Well the olympics are the oldest sporting event in the world, so I think legendary fits the bill.

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12-24-2009, 03:19 PM
  #90
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If a junior-style format can be used for Olympic soccer, it can be used for hockey. It's better than the alternative.
In europe people want to see the best talent available playing. Not kids.

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12-24-2009, 03:22 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Well the olympics are the oldest sporting event in the world, so I think legendary fits the bill.
Umm the modern olympics hardly resemble the ancient ones. Some French aristrocrats just borrowed the name, and for a long while it was just an aristocratic event, also today's olympics are a just a vulgar marketing display and VIP party, full of doper athletes too.

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12-24-2009, 03:29 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
In europe people want to see the best talent available playing. Not kids.
So do North Americans and an Olympics without NHLers would be a farce once again.

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12-24-2009, 04:41 PM
  #93
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So do North Americans and an Olympics without NHLers would be a farce once again.
Definately. But it would be an even worse farce with kids instead of pros.

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12-24-2009, 04:44 PM
  #94
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With the NHL players not being allowed to play at the OG (despite many of them actually wanting to play btw, dunno how it is in north America, but in Europe olympics usually are considered the top event that all the sportsmen dream off since being little kids) it means that the NHL will be on and Canadians/Americans will be busy watching it, why do you guys then have such a need to dsitroy the tournament for us europeans as well by playing junior kids rather than top European players?

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12-24-2009, 04:48 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Umm the modern olympics hardly resemble the ancient ones.
Yes it is good that the athletes wear clothes nowadays. Where was Ice Hockey at 500 BC ?
Quote:
Some French aristrocrats just borrowed the name, and for a long while it was just an aristocratic event,
I would like to hear more?
Quote:
also today's olympics are a just a vulgar marketing display and VIP party,
Ice Hockey also came long way from ponds to the professional leagues of today.
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full of doper athletes too.
That is the reality of professional sports nowadays. Still it is not "full" and not only problem of Olympic games.

Nothing is perfect, but there is no equivalent to the Olympic Games.

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Old
12-24-2009, 04:52 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Umm the modern olympics hardly resemble the ancient ones. Some French aristrocrats just borrowed the name, and for a long while it was just an aristocratic event, also today's olympics are a just a vulgar marketing display and VIP party, full of doper athletes too.
What isn't these days? Holidays can't even withstand beatings from the consumer world we live in. Live with it, they are still the olympics. Just because they have changed doesn't mean they aren't the same thing.

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Old
12-24-2009, 05:21 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
Definately. But it would be an even worse farce with kids instead of pros.
Nowhere near as farcical as having pros from Europe playing kids from North America. That's what you'll have once again without NHL involvement.

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12-24-2009, 06:22 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
Definately. But it would be an even worse farce with kids instead of pros.
The reason why most Canadians would want juniors instead of minor league players is that we want the tournament to mean something in terms of measuring a countries hockey ability. Obviously the best measure is to have all the best players available to play, but if that's not possible at least the U20 format allows for the best players in that age group to attend. Having a tournament with vastly varing levels of each countries player depth tells you next to nothing about where each country is at. Unless all you are worried about is winning and one format gives you a better chance, I can't see any reason for prefering an OG with minor league players.

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12-24-2009, 06:59 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Obviously the best measure is to have all the best players available to play, but if that's not possible at least the U20 format allows for the best players in that age group to attend. Having a tournament with vastly varing levels of each countries player depth tells you next to nothing about where each country is at. Unless all you are worried about is winning and one format gives you a better chance, I can't see any reason for prefering an OG with minor league players.
Isn't that what the WJC is also? Considering the cyclical nature of junior development outside North America?

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12-24-2009, 07:48 PM
  #100
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How can anyone think that a freaking age limited event should occur only every four years? That's absolutely stupid. Younger players typically don't play in the tournament unless they are exceptionally skilled players, so you're basically screwing most players who would normally get a chance to play in the tournament if they were, say, 16 or 17 when the event occurred. They would be too old for the next one but forced out because the teams rely on 18 and 19 year olds.

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