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Could Ovechkin break Gretzky's records if he played in the same time period?

View Poll Results: Would Ovechkin be better than Gretzky was if he started his career at the same time?
Yes 42 31.58%
No 91 68.42%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-22-2009, 11:00 PM
  #1
Wario Lemieux*
 
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Could Ovechkin break Gretzky's records if he played in the same time period?

I've seen a few posts asking about how many points Gretzky would have in the NHL today and people usually say something around 110.

Would Ovechkin be better than him if he took Gretzky's roster spot for his career?

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12-22-2009, 11:10 PM
  #2
Kamal007
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No. For one, he would be destroyed if he even tried to play the way he does without fighting.

And where do you get this 110 number? Gretzky's vision and passing alone would give him ATLEAST 90 assists per year for 10-15 years. Not to mention the new NHL is built around smaller players like him.

Que Nordic.

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12-22-2009, 11:11 PM
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If you took Ovechkin exactly as he is now and sent him back to 1980 yes he would score more points than anyone.

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12-22-2009, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan87 View Post
If you took Ovechkin exactly as he is now and sent him back to 1980 yes he would score more points than anyone.
My Delorean's transmission has sadly blown out this week

Seriously, no clue. I think Ovechkin now sent back to the 80's would absolutely tear it up, but a lot of things were different in the 80's. Overall training, style of play, goalies that didn't wear mattresses for pads and couldn't play positionally.In short, who knows?

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12-22-2009, 11:13 PM
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I would honestly like to see what OVs shot would look like with one of those Flintstone's sticks. The game was so different. Something tells me he wouldn't be launching those high howitzers without his trusty banana blade. He'd still be great, but i don't think he would break those records.

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12-22-2009, 11:15 PM
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eldiablo17
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Depends.

Are you taking Ovechkin as he is today? Because if so than yes, he would easily break 100 goals

But if Ovechkin was raised in the 70s then no. Training and development are completely different today.

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12-22-2009, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninsRevenge View Post
I would honestly like to see what OVs shot would look like with one of those Flintstone's sticks. The game was so different. Something tells me he wouldn't be launching those high howitzers without his trusty banana stick. He'd still be great, but i don't think he would break those records.
Ewww, Ronin's you perv, get your mind out the gutter, lol.

Oh and for the thread yes I think Ovie would of put up better numbers, Ovie's a way more explosive and dynamic player in my opinion, but than again who know's it was bascially two totaly different games when compared to each other.

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12-22-2009, 11:16 PM
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he would likely have gotten beaten back to Russia before he even got close.

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12-22-2009, 11:18 PM
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RoninsRevenge
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Originally Posted by DaFranzenator View Post
Ewww, Ronin's you perv, get your mind out the gutter, lol.
I changed it to blade for all the filthy minds out there.

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12-22-2009, 11:23 PM
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In one of the countless other threads about this sort of thing I did some math based on Gretzky's relationship to the other top scorers in his peak years, and estimated he'd have scored something like 165 points at his peak year in this NHL. So no, I don't think he could.

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12-22-2009, 11:31 PM
  #11
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In goals? Hell yes. Nothing else.

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12-22-2009, 11:39 PM
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He'd certainly score more goals, though playing without a modern slingshot-stick would limit how many. Probably 100-105. Not smart enough get enough assists to keep up with Wayne though, I say he gets 170-180 points.

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12-22-2009, 11:47 PM
  #13
TheDevilMadeMe
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He might break some of the goals records, but wouldn't come close to the assist or points records. And given Ovechkin's reckless style of play, I doubt he'd be able to beat out Gretzky in career goals (although he might be able to beat the seasonal goal records).

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12-22-2009, 11:48 PM
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Yes, easily.

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12-22-2009, 11:50 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Also, polls where the title and poll are asking totally different questions are a big fail.

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12-22-2009, 11:59 PM
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I don't think you guys quite understand how over-the-top Gretzky was in the 80s compared to the rough parity Ovechkin has with other superstar forwards.

Ovechkin didn't even win the Art Ross last year. He's also not the post-lockout points leader, nor has he scored the most points in a season post-lockout (Thornton has both of those). Would Thornton, Malkin, and Crosby, who are putting up similar scoring, also have a shot at Wayne Gretzky's records? Please.

The year Gretzky scored 215 points, second place was 141. That's less than two-thirds as much. Do you ever think there will be a year Thornton Malkin or Crosby don't score within 66% of Ovechkin? When Gretzky scored 92 goals, second was 64, which is less than Ovechkin scored in 2007-2008 in this era!

Obviously Gretzky wouldn't score as much in this league, but even when you adjust for his high-scoring era, it's not even close.

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12-23-2009, 12:01 AM
  #17
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For starters if you slot Ovechkin in Gretzky's spot on the Oilers I can guarantee they don't win 4 Cups. Ovechkin does not have the ability to raise the level of play of his teammates the way Gretzky did or even the way Thornton or Crosby can. He's a goal scorer. More of an individual talent. Not the type that would feed Kurri the puck for 19 playoff goals.

Now maybe in a fortunate year he breaks the 92 goals record. But let's think for a second here. A healthy Lemieux never did it. Bossy with a center like Trottier never hit more than 69. Hull got the closest at 86 with Oates hitting him. And Hull didn't even bother to backcheck either which probably added to his scoring chances. This myth that Ovechkin would tear up the league even over the greatest offensive player in NHL history is crazy, because if you look at a guy that Ovechkin is closer resembled to (Bossy) you'll see how far he was away from doing it. And the Islanders once scored 385 goals in a season.

But hey one of these "players from before 2005 sucked" threads come around every week, no?

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12-23-2009, 12:03 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiablo17 View Post
Depends.

Are you taking Ovechkin as he is today? Because if so than yes, he would easily break 100 goals

But if Ovechkin was raised in the 70s then no. Training and development are completely different today.
This is exactly what I was going to say.

If you places Ovechkin of today in the 80s hockey world, he'd be a complete and utter beast (as would Crosby, Malkin and many others). However, you put him as growing up and trained in that time period and he would have been a completely different hockey player.

I don't know that there were many 6'2" 220 pound snipers with speed and a physical game back in the 80s.

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12-23-2009, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiablo17 View Post
Depends.

Are you taking Ovechkin as he is today? Because if so than yes, he would easily break 100 goals

But if Ovechkin was raised in the 70s then no. Training and development are completely different today.
AO with those 80's stick doesn't even have the same quick release and power on his shot.

75-85 goals. Yes, no doubt.

100 goals ? No way.

210pts+ ? Not even close.

Those AO fan boy really overrated him these days.

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12-23-2009, 12:06 AM
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no i dont think he could of

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12-23-2009, 12:13 AM
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K sure 100 goals heck even 120 goals, does anyone seriously think ovechkin would get 70+ assist in any era though? Gretzky could produce more assist then others had points in some years.

In Gretzky's peak years (81-86) he averages 207 points, 132 assist and 75 goals a season. Now Ovechkin is a goal scorer so lets inverse those stats, anyone think Ovechkin could score 132 goals while putting up 75 assist, just to match Gretzky.

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12-23-2009, 12:37 AM
  #22
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I am thinking line such as Ovechkin-Messier-Kurri, backed by Coffey in defence, he could hit 70-80 goals and 60-70 assists on a good year.

So no, I don't believe that he would. Unless, of course, he could play with todays equipment in the 80s.

On career year with a healthy season I believe Ovechkin could hit 150 points and would have very high, league leading ppg average on most seasons.

But on a normal season I think he would hover around 130 points, along with the best players of the day. This because it is likely he would be cheapshotted a bit more with his style of play and with his aversion to drop the gloves (even Gretzky has twice the amount of fights, two, compared to Ovechkin at the same point of their career), also be injured a bit more (and recover a bit slower than players of today unless of course, medical technology would also be transported from today to 80's).

Also I do not think Kurri, Coffey, Messier, Anderson would develop into players they did if not for Gretzky. Oilers would likely be a challenger for the cup but probably not a dynasty.


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12-23-2009, 01:29 AM
  #23
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Guy Lafleur smoked cigarettes between periods, and he was one of the 3 best players of the 1970's. Back in the day, players didn't really train off ice. In interviews between periods or after a game, they were dripping with sweat, a lot more than today. That's simply because players today are in much better shape. They're stronger, faster and have more endurance.

Moreover, the goalies in the 1980's were so freaking bad, had never heard of butterfly, had small equipment, and no defense in front of them. In 82, there was 61 players at or over one point per game, including Siltanen, Flockhart, Dunlop, Hartsburg, Carlyle, Payne, Duguay, Derlago, Lumley, Valentine, Gradin, and the list goes on and on. Who the hell are those guys? Typical top 50-60-70 ish players that no one remembers 25 years later but that managed to score over 1 point per game during the 1980's. Those guys today would get no more than 0.7 points per game. They're the Michael Ryder's and the Tuomo Ruutu's of today's NHL. Can you see those two score 80 or 90 points today, i.e. be top 10-20 in offense? No, of course not.

Since the offense was so ridiculously easier back then, I think it's safe to say that Ovechkin, with great linesmates like Gretzky had, would score significantly more than 65 goals. Further, with his greater shape, speed, and shot that his off-ice training and just superior athleticism gives him (even with a wooden stick), he could probably have scored over one goal per game, probably 90, maybe 100, and 80 assists is not far fetched.

I therefore think that he would be a better goal scorer. Of course he will never have the vision and hockey intelligence that Gretzky had. But physically he would be one step above anyone else. Going from one end to the neutral zone and entering the offensive zone full speed, passing and deking defensemen and scoring would be a very common feat for him in the 1980's.

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12-23-2009, 01:54 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by McNuts View Post
Guy Lafleur smoked cigarettes between periods, and he was one of the 3 best players of the 1970's. Back in the day, players didn't really train off ice. In interviews between periods or after a game, they were dripping with sweat, a lot more than today. That's simply because players today are in much better shape. They're stronger, faster and have more endurance.

Moreover, the goalies in the 1980's were so freaking bad, had never heard of butterfly, had small equipment, and no defense in front of them. In 82, there was 61 players at or over one point per game, including Siltanen, Flockhart, Dunlop, Hartsburg, Carlyle, Payne, Duguay, Derlago, Lumley, Valentine, Gradin, and the list goes on and on. Who the hell are those guys? Typical top 50-60-70 ish players that no one remembers 25 years later but that managed to score over 1 point per game during the 1980's. Those guys today would get no more than 0.7 points per game. They're the Michael Ryder's and the Tuomo Ruutu's of today's NHL. Can you see those two score 80 or 90 points today, i.e. be top 10-20 in offense? No, of course not.

Since the offense was so ridiculously easier back then, I think it's safe to say that Ovechkin, with great linesmates like Gretzky had, would score significantly more than 65 goals. Further, with his greater shape, speed, and shot that his off-ice training and just superior athleticism gives him (even with a wooden stick), he could probably have scored over one goal per game, probably 90, maybe 100, and 80 assists is not far fetched.

I therefore think that he would be a better goal scorer. Of course he will never have the vision and hockey intelligence that Gretzky had. But physically he would be one step above anyone else. Going from one end to the neutral zone and entering the offensive zone full speed, passing and deking defensemen and scoring would be a very common feat for him in the 1980's.
Well you put him in that time period you would assume that he has that same fitness level or that the players around him have that same fitness level otherwise theres no point in the argument because if you put Rene Bourque in that time and at his weight and size compared to other players he's probably a 40 goal scorer. That's just the way it is. Guys have gotten bigger. Like half the leagues goaltenders today is made up of guys 6'3 or bigger. Back then it wouldn't be unusual for a guy 5'8-5'10 to be between the pipes.

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12-23-2009, 01:58 AM
  #25
McNuts
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Well you put him in that time period you would assume that he has that same fitness level or that the players around him have that same fitness level otherwise theres no point in the argument
My point is if you take Ovechkin in a time machine and ship him to the 1980's, he will dominate and break Gretzky's goal record.

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