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Old
12-23-2009, 05:43 AM
  #1
YoungGuns
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Gagner

i dont know if anybody has brought this up yet but how long would you sign him for and for how much

i personally would sign him to a 6 year 21 million dollar contract

2 million
3million
4 million for last 4 years with a cap hit of only 3. some million i think its a good deal
what doyou guys think

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12-23-2009, 05:54 AM
  #2
Ragss
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I can't see him getting a long contract like that. He isn't performing as well as he could be so his agent will want him to keep it short term until he can really cash in.

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12-23-2009, 07:10 AM
  #3
hemskysuncle
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Originally Posted by Ragss View Post
I can't see him getting a long contract like that. He isn't performing as well as he could be so his agent will want him to keep it short term until he can really cash in.
I agree with this, from Gagner's side. Also from the Oilers' side, they are not going to want to lock him in until they see what he will really become...possibly he will just turn into an average 2nd liner, in which case a "lifetime" type contract would be dumb.

I would sign him to a 2 year 3.5 million (1.5 first year, 2 the next) and then see where he is at.

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12-23-2009, 07:13 AM
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Yanner39
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It's funny, everybody (including me) was worried about what would happen when Gagner, Cogliano and Grebeshkov would be up for new deals.

If Oilers play their cards right, they may get them at potential discounts.

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Old
12-23-2009, 07:24 AM
  #5
ponokanocker
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Originally Posted by hockynight View Post
i dont know if anybody has brought this up yet but how long would you sign him for and for how much

i personally would sign him to a 6 year 21 million dollar contract

2 million
3million
4 million for last 4 years with a cap hit of only 3. some million i think its a good deal
what doyou guys think
I'm pretty hesitant to throw that type of money at him long term considering how he has played/points he has put up. I'm not sure what the market will be on him though, which could push our hand. I like the way he is battling this year though, so hopefully the points will come in time with his development.

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12-23-2009, 07:44 AM
  #6
hemskysuncle
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Originally Posted by Yanner39 View Post
It's funny, everybody (including me) was worried about what would happen when Gagner, Cogliano and Grebeshkov would be up for new deals.

If Oilers play their cards right, they may get them at potential discounts.
I know there were at least a few people mentioning that they hope the "marquee" RFAs have crap years this year!

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Old
12-23-2009, 08:50 AM
  #7
jadeddog
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gagner, cogliano and grebs are all gonna want shorter contracts, and if their agents don't push for shorter contracts they should be fired

the oilers *might* want to lock gagner up a little more "long term", as oilers management has a tendency to give contracts based on potential rather than established levels of play.... so i wouldn't be completely surprised to see the oilers go for a 3 year contract with gagner, which would put him 1 year shy of UFA when that contract is over if my math is right

cogliano hasn't shown nearly enough to warrant anything more than 1 or 2 years, and the same can be said of grebs

to be honest though, i expect cogliano to be traded at some point anyhow, so i don't think it really matters with him.... the same might happen with grebs as well ... gagner is the only one out of these three that i think management views as a "long term oiler".... i just hope they don't throw the bank at gagner, believing he'll magically turn into a top-line player.... its pretty obvious by now that gagner is never going to be a legit 1st line player

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Old
12-23-2009, 09:16 AM
  #8
hemskysuncle
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
gagner, cogliano and grebs are all gonna want shorter contracts, and if their agents don't push for shorter contracts they should be fired

the oilers *might* want to lock gagner up a little more "long term", as oilers management has a tendency to give contracts based on potential rather than established levels of play.... so i wouldn't be completely surprised to see the oilers go for a 3 year contract with gagner, which would put him 1 year shy of UFA when that contract is over if my math is right

cogliano hasn't shown nearly enough to warrant anything more than 1 or 2 years, and the same can be said of grebs

to be honest though, i expect cogliano to be traded at some point anyhow, so i don't think it really matters with him.... the same might happen with grebs as well ... gagner is the only one out of these three that i think management views as a "long term oiler".... i just hope they don't throw the bank at gagner, believing he'll magically turn into a top-line player.... its pretty obvious by now that gagner is never going to be a legit 1st line player
Ummmm....he's.... twenty...years...old


How can you say its "pretty obvious". I am not going to bring up examples such as Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or emerging stars such as Kopitar, Richards and go into length on how you cannot gauge the career of an NHLer by the time they turn 20. Just take a look where these guys were when they were 20, and come back to me if you have any questions or need further explanation

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Old
12-23-2009, 09:26 AM
  #9
Alex87
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Fittingly enough, LT has a good post up about Gagner this morning. http://lowetide.blogspot.com/2009/12...g37-09-10.html

The neat thing is that Gagner is actually having the best start of his career. And, as someone else mentioned, he's only 20 years old. He's definitely a big part of this team's future, and if I'm Tambellini, I try to get in locked in for a lot of years at a low cap hit. It's a typical high risk/high reward type scenario, but I'm comfortable with the risk.

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Old
12-23-2009, 09:51 AM
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Petro Points
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Originally Posted by Alex87 View Post
Fittingly enough, LT has a good post up about Gagner this morning. http://lowetide.blogspot.com/2009/12...g37-09-10.html

The neat thing is that Gagner is actually having the best start of his career. And, as someone else mentioned, he's only 20 years old. He's definitely a big part of this team's future, and if I'm Tambellini, I try to get in locked in for a lot of years at a low cap hit. It's a typical high risk/high reward type scenario, but I'm comfortable with the risk.
if by "neat" u mean "sad" then yes that would be correct... Hes been very AHL'ish this season ... Only thing he had going for himself was his age but now even that is not looking too impressive compared to other young talent around the league..

Hopes of him being the next Weight are gone for me.. I will now be happy if he becomes a consistent 60pt player for us..

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12-23-2009, 09:52 AM
  #11
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having comrie is supposed to turn him into a clone.. i still think he'll turn out to be a comrie which isn't bad at all to anchor the 2nd line..

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:04 AM
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CupofOil
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There's no reason for Gagner to sign a long term contract now coming off a year of regression, i bet that he re-signs for 1 or 2 years then goes for the bigger long term contract when his game is more developed and the same goes for Cogliano (who'll probably be traded anyway).
Grebeshkov, on the other hand, probably won't be here next year imo

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:08 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
gagner, cogliano and grebs are all gonna want shorter contracts, and if their agents don't push for shorter contracts they should be fired

the oilers *might* want to lock gagner up a little more "long term", as oilers management has a tendency to give contracts based on potential rather than established levels of play.... so i wouldn't be completely surprised to see the oilers go for a 3 year contract with gagner, which would put him 1 year shy of UFA when that contract is over if my math is right

cogliano hasn't shown nearly enough to warrant anything more than 1 or 2 years, and the same can be said of grebs

to be honest though, i expect cogliano to be traded at some point anyhow, so i don't think it really matters with him.... the same might happen with grebs as well ... gagner is the only one out of these three that i think management views as a "long term oiler".... i just hope they don't throw the bank at gagner, believing he'll magically turn into a top-line player.... its pretty obvious by now that gagner is never going to be a legit 1st line player

I agree with everything that you said up until this point, it is NOT pretty obvious that he will never be a legit 1st line player...... Are the odds against him being that type of player? Sure, but he's 20 and the potential is certainly there for him to develop into a first line center..... He'll never be a franchise player but he can certainly turn into a nice ppg player in his prime which will be just fine for a first line player. He's 20, lets keep that in perspective

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:34 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
if by "neat" u mean "sad" then yes that would be correct... Hes been very AHL'ish this season ... Only thing he had going for himself was his age but now even that is not looking too impressive compared to other young talent around the league..

Hopes of him being the next Weight are gone for me.. I will now be happy if he becomes a consistent 60pt player for us..
Disagreed.

There are 5 players in this league younger than Gagner that have more points than him.

Voracek 1 more point, 2 more games played
Doughty 2 more points, 2 more games played
Duchene 2 more points, 4 more games played
Tavares 6 more points, 2 more games played
Stamkos 14 more points, 1 more game played

So there are only 3 NHlers younger than Gagner that are on a better point per game rate, and those 3 players were drafted, #1, #1, and #2 (Stamkos, Tavares, and Doughty).

Gagner is keeping himself in very good company, and if you still think he's forever delegated to a 60 pt career player, well then you're thinking quite clearly isn't based on his on-ice production.

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12-23-2009, 10:41 AM
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ponokanocker
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I can't believe people are willing to write off Gagne so early in his career. This is way too early only be considering him as only a 2nd line player for the rest of his career. I think there will be a lot of people eating crow in a couple of years.

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:49 AM
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Petro Points
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Originally Posted by oilersrule14 View Post
Disagreed.

There are 5 players in this league younger than Gagner that have more points than him.

Voracek 1 more point, 2 more games played
Doughty 2 more points, 2 more games played
Duchene 2 more points, 4 more games played
Tavares 6 more points, 2 more games played
Stamkos 14 more points, 1 more game played

So there are only 3 NHlers younger than Gagner that are on a better point per game rate, and those 3 players were drafted, #1, #1, and #2 (Stamkos, Tavares, and Doughty).

Gagner is keeping himself in very good company, and if you still think he's forever delegated to a 60 pt career player, well then you're thinking quite clearly isn't based on his on-ice production.
all the names you mentioned about have or will improve their game every season. Gagner hasnt.. Like I said... he had "age" going for him and will be on his side for the next couple yrs and then the list you have will get too big unless he shows signs of improvement.

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12-23-2009, 10:59 AM
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Auguste Escoffier
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I see him getting a two-year deal; Brule and Cogliano a one-year.

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12-23-2009, 11:00 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
if by "neat" u mean "sad" then yes that would be correct... Hes been very AHL'ish this season ... Only thing he had going for himself was his age but now even that is not looking too impressive compared to other young talent around the league..

Hopes of him being the next Weight are gone for me.. I will now be happy if he becomes a consistent 60pt player for us..
Good thing you aren't the GM then. It's plain we don't quite know what we have with Gagner. What we do now is that he's putting up decent points and keeping his head above water in the NHL despite being only 20 years old. But for you, this is a good time to write him off as having only 60 point potential? Yikes. You might be right, Gagner might just be another Mike Comrie, but you should make that conclusion when he's 26 or 27, not when he's 20.

I don't think Gagner will ever be a 100 point scorer, but there is a decent chance he'll one day be a first liner and it's quite likely he'll one day become the face of the franchise.

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Old
12-23-2009, 12:15 PM
  #19
oilersrule14
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
all the names you mentioned about have or will improve their game every season.
I doubt that. 5 players developing perfectly, that's very unlikely.

Just look at Dion Phaneuf, improved his points totals 3 years in a row, and now they've dropped these past two years. Could Drew Doughty follow the same route? Phaneuf was just as highly touted as Doughty is.

My point is development just doesn't work in the same way every time, so Gagner stagnating in points with his 18, 19, and 20 year old seasons doesn't mean much. That's because, as my list showed, he is still very young, and he is still performing impressively for his age.

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12-23-2009, 12:37 PM
  #20
jadeddog
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Originally Posted by oilersrule14 View Post
Disagreed.

There are 5 players in this league younger than Gagner that have more points than him.

Voracek 1 more point, 2 more games played
Doughty 2 more points, 2 more games played
Duchene 2 more points, 4 more games played
Tavares 6 more points, 2 more games played
Stamkos 14 more points, 1 more game played

So there are only 3 NHlers younger than Gagner that are on a better point per game rate, and those 3 players were drafted, #1, #1, and #2 (Stamkos, Tavares, and Doughty).

Gagner is keeping himself in very good company, and if you still think he's forever delegated to a 60 pt career player, well then you're thinking quite clearly isn't based on his on-ice production.
ummmm.... where exactly are you getting these stats?

they looked strange to me, so i looked at stamkos because i was pretty darn sure he was vastly outproducing gagner.... and i was right

stamkos has played 115 games and has 81 points.... gagner has played 190 games and scored 111 points.... where are you getting the "14 more points, 1 more game played" information from?

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Old
12-23-2009, 12:41 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
ummmm.... where exactly are you getting these stats?

they looked strange to me, so i looked at stamkos because i was pretty darn sure he was vastly outproducing gagner.... and i was right

stamkos has played 115 games and has 81 points.... gagner has played 190 games and scored 111 points.... where are you getting the "14 more points, 1 more game played" information from?
My guess would be he's talking about this year, not career points.

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Old
12-23-2009, 12:47 PM
  #22
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How bout a 2 year deal worth 3.8 million?

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Old
12-23-2009, 12:50 PM
  #23
ponokanocker
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Originally Posted by oilersrule14 View Post
I doubt that. 5 players developing perfectly, that's very unlikely.

My point is development just doesn't work in the same way every time, so Gagner stagnating in points with his 18, 19, and 20 year old seasons doesn't mean much. That's because, as my list showed, he is still very young, and he is still performing impressively for his age.
I think this needs to be taken into account with him. He is a smaller player by height and frame, and my biggest issue with him to this point is he doesn't seem very strong on the puck, or able to win a lot of battles for the puck. With time, his smaller frame will fill out, and he will be able to deal with the much larger players in the league much easier. His effort is still there, willingness to go into battles for the puck, and showing some decent hockey sense, so I don't think there is any need to panick that he can't be an elite level player.

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Old
12-23-2009, 12:55 PM
  #24
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This reminds me of Arnott. Short sighted fans getting on a young player just because he is young. Next thing you know he is scoring the winning goal in a Stanley cup game for another team because short sighted fans chased him off our team. I guess these short sighted fans well never bother to learn by past mistakes that have cost us in the long term. The sad thing is Arnott would look real good on our first line but I digress. Luckily the Organization probably has Gagner in there long term plans dispite what some HFboard members think About a 20 year old who is already looking like the best option as our number one center as a bloody 20 year old. How any one can comment he has been AHLish is beyond me and probably someone one should not listen to if they are looking for advice about hockey players. Gagner is not a legit first line center as of now but he is close with a focus on consistency he would be. AHLish my ass.

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Old
12-23-2009, 12:56 PM
  #25
jadeddog
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My guess would be he's talking about this year, not career points.
ah yes, that looks correct.... thanks for pointing that out

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