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Avs "Aggressively" Pursuing Ilya Kovalchuk/Liles Being shopped

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Old
12-24-2009, 10:09 AM
  #26
jaisen73
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I think the Avs might be players for him in the off-season but not at the deadline. Yes, they have more cap space than a lot of other teams in playoff contention (at this midpoint in the season) but I don't think they want to sacrifice a young piece of the puzzle UNLESS the trade came with an extension. And Kovalchuk and his agent aren't that stupid. They know the best contract will come this summer. That said, the Avs are going to see a LOT of payroll come off the books this summer: Clark, Salei, Tucker, Budaj, and Svatos add up to a good chunk of change and the Avs will likely be bringing in younger, cheaper players to fill the slots (Shattenkirk on D, possibly Weiman to back up Anderson). I'd rather see them aggressively pursue Illya without giving up picks or players.

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12-24-2009, 10:12 AM
  #27
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The Avs weakness isn't goal production... it's holding onto leads. If we're spending money, let's get help on defense!!

EDIT: I agree with jaisen73... if the Avs want Kovy, then try and get him without giving up players. We're building a good team here, let's not break the dam and send players away we don't need too.

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12-24-2009, 10:31 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by jaisen73 View Post
I think the Avs might be players for him in the off-season but not at the deadline. Yes, they have more cap space than a lot of other teams in playoff contention (at this midpoint in the season) but I don't think they want to sacrifice a young piece of the puzzle UNLESS the trade came with an extension. And Kovalchuk and his agent aren't that stupid. They know the best contract will come this summer. That said, the Avs are going to see a LOT of payroll come off the books this summer: Clark, Salei, Tucker, Budaj, and Svatos add up to a good chunk of change and the Avs will likely be bringing in younger, cheaper players to fill the slots (Shattenkirk on D, possibly Weiman to back up Anderson). I'd rather see them aggressively pursue Illya without giving up picks or players.
Actually I think Kovy will get a much better contract if he signs sometime this season. This season he'll get bloated contracts by people trying to retain him. Atlanta will pay a fortune to keep their star, or if a team trades for him, they'll pay a fortune to make sure that they didn't give up a boatload of assets for nothing.

If he hits complete free agency, he'll get the regular going rate, which would be around eight million.

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12-24-2009, 10:44 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Adama0905 View Post

If he hits complete free agency, he'll get the regular going rate, which would be around eight million.
and we should be lining up to offer him 8 millions, because on a 8-10 year deal he'd still be worth it, and you can make the first two years 10 million per and the last two years 6 million per and that would be a great contract for the avs

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12-24-2009, 11:00 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by quesosauce View Post
and we should be lining up to offer him 8 millions, because on a 8-10 year deal he'd still be worth it, and you can make the first two years 10 million per and the last two years 6 million per and that would be a great contract for the avs
Yeah, I think so too. I would love Kovy at eight million per.

Just saying that if he gets traded, he's going to play hardball with whatever team trades for him since he knows they don't want to lose him if they give up a bunch of assets. If he gets traded, he's getting paid ten million to eleven million, count on it. If we can pick him up in July, he'll be around eight.

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12-24-2009, 11:03 AM
  #31
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The more I think about it, the more I think we should only do some sort of sign-and-trade type deal.

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12-24-2009, 11:22 AM
  #32
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I'm all for signing a big FA to takes us over the top.

But i'd be happier if we had our young guns locked up long term first. ie. duchene, quincey and hopefully oreilly and shattenkirk. Add a kovy to that with spare parts around that (and Anderson) and we're good.


This year would be.... early. Then again. we started out stupid-good.

idk. we'll see.

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12-24-2009, 11:24 AM
  #33
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I still think he's going to the KHL and all of this is a moot point.

I'd love to see Toronto give away a boatload for him and then he dashes to Russia - too much risk here for the Avs to get involved.

You can say he'll get 8M, 10M, 11M, but in Russia he could get 20.

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12-24-2009, 11:30 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by scott76 View Post
I still think he's going to the KHL and all of this is a moot point.

I'd love to see Toronto give away a boatload for him and then he dashes to Russia - too much risk here for the Avs to get involved.

You can say he'll get 8M, 10M, 11M, but in Russia he could get 20.
until the KHL goes bankrupt in 2012, srsly that league is in more financial trouble than the NHL

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12-24-2009, 11:38 AM
  #35
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I think the Avs need a reality check on their players. Yes our roster is great, but if the Avs got Ilya Kovalchuk he'd be hands down by far the most talented player on the team. The Avs need that. It's hard to swallow the idea of letting players go but in reality Ilya Kovalchuk is a top 5 player in the league. I mean yes Galiardi, Stewart, Wolski, Cumiskey, etc are good players, but I'd give up any of those guys for Kovalchuk.

If the Avalanche can keep a core of Kovalchuk, Duchene, Stastny, O'Reilly, Hejduk they'll be extremely competative.

Kovalchuk- $10mil
Stastny- $6mil
Duchene- $6mil
O'Reilly- $4mil
Hejduk- $4mil

That's $30mil for 5 core players... That would leave $20 million for 13 skaters and 2 goalies... It could be done..


I hope.

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12-24-2009, 11:47 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott76 View Post
I still think he's going to the KHL and all of this is a moot point.

I'd love to see Toronto give away a boatload for him and then he dashes to Russia - too much risk here for the Avs to get involved.

You can say he'll get 8M, 10M, 11M, but in Russia he could get 20.
With the cost of oil flatlining I'm not even sure that the KHL could offer Kovalchuk that much

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12-24-2009, 12:02 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
I think the Avs need a reality check on their players. Yes our roster is great, but if the Avs got Ilya Kovalchuk he'd be hands down by far the most talented player on the team. The Avs need that. It's hard to swallow the idea of letting players go but in reality Ilya Kovalchuk is a top 5 player in the league. I mean yes Galiardi, Stewart, Wolski, Cumiskey, etc are good players, but I'd give up any of those guys for Kovalchuk.

If the Avalanche can keep a core of Kovalchuk, Duchene, Stastny, O'Reilly, Hejduk they'll be extremely competative.

Kovalchuk- $10mil
Stastny- $6mil
Duchene- $6mil
O'Reilly- $4mil
Hejduk- $4mil

That's $30mil for 5 core players... That would leave $20 million for 13 skaters and 2 goalies... It could be done..


I hope.
Thats a core of entirely forwards. You need great goaltending and defense to win the chip.

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12-24-2009, 12:07 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
I think the Avs need a reality check on their players. Yes our roster is great, but if the Avs got Ilya Kovalchuk he'd be hands down by far the most talented player on the team. The Avs need that. It's hard to swallow the idea of letting players go but in reality Ilya Kovalchuk is a top 5 player in the league. I mean yes Galiardi, Stewart, Wolski, Cumiskey, etc are good players, but I'd give up any of those guys for Kovalchuk.

If the Avalanche can keep a core of Kovalchuk, Duchene, Stastny, O'Reilly, Hejduk they'll be extremely competative.

Kovalchuk- $10mil
Stastny- $6mil
Duchene- $6mil
O'Reilly- $4mil
Hejduk- $4mil

That's $30mil for 5 core players... That would leave $20 million for 13 skaters and 2 goalies... It could be done..


I hope.
20 million left to sign Jones, Stewart, Shattenkirk, Elliot, Gaunce, and potential future draft picks that end up looking like Studs? Not to mention a no. 1 goalie as well. It could work... on NHL 09. Doubt it would work in real life tho. 20 million is not enough.

You could take Kovy's 10 million and split it,

Wolski - 5 [or less]
Jones - 2.5
Stewart - 2.5

No 'star power' but we sure do add a hell of a depth on the wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure View Post
Thats a core of entirely forwards. You need great goaltending and defense to win the chip.
So, its the Stanley Chip that the Avs are trying to win? I hope its as good as the Stanley Cup.

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12-24-2009, 12:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
I think the Avs need a reality check on their players. Yes our roster is great, but if the Avs got Ilya Kovalchuk he'd be hands down by far the most talented player on the team. The Avs need that. It's hard to swallow the idea of letting players go but in reality Ilya Kovalchuk is a top 5 player in the league. I mean yes Galiardi, Stewart, Wolski, Cumiskey, etc are good players, but I'd give up any of those guys for Kovalchuk.

If the Avalanche can keep a core of Kovalchuk, Duchene, Stastny, O'Reilly, Hejduk they'll be extremely competative.

Kovalchuk- $10mil
Stastny- $6mil
Duchene- $6mil
O'Reilly- $4mil
Hejduk- $4mil

That's $30mil for 5 core players... That would leave $20 million for 13 skaters and 2 goalies... It could be done..


I hope.
I dunno about Wolski, but I would give up any of the other players besides the ones listed in your core. IMO we let go Wolski and we have no other top six left wingers, and are left with just as shallow of left wing talent as we have currently, but with twenty more possible points (assuming Kovy is a hundred point guy which he isn't quite and Wolski is a ppg guy which he might be) and four million less to add talent to that position.

Oh, but for the record, twenty million for fifteen players is roughly 1 million on each guy. Do you really want a defense made up of guys that can only make one million? And keep in mind that if Anderson stays a 2.6, .915 goalie for the remainder of his contract, he'll demand around four million. So that makes less. It'd be best if we could find a guy with a smaller contract to just add another top six left wing talent.


Last edited by Adama0905: 12-24-2009 at 12:26 PM.
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12-24-2009, 12:22 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dmitri View Post
20 million left to sign Jones, Stewart, Shattenkirk, Elliot, Gaunce, and potential future draft picks that end up looking like Studs? Not to mention a no. 1 goalie as well. It could work... on NHL 09. Doubt it would work in real life tho. 20 million is not enough.

You could take Kovy's 10 million and split it,

Wolski - 5 [or less]
Jones - 2.5
Stewart - 2.5

No 'star power' but we sure do add a hell of a depth on the wing.



So, its the Stanley Chip that the Avs are trying to win? I hope its as good as the Stanley Cup.
We'll never be good enough to win the cup. The chip is the consolation prize.

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12-24-2009, 01:04 PM
  #41
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Important players for the Avs to resign or replace in the next few years.

2010

Wolski (RFA)
Quincey (RFA)

2011

Galiardi (RFA)
Stoa (RFA)
Cumiskey (RFA)
Wilson (RFA)
Jones (UFA)
Hejduk (UFA)
Hannan (UFA)
Anderson (UFA)

2012

Duchene (RFA)
O'Reilly (RFA)
McLeod (UFA)
Liles (UFA)

The Avs have plenty of scoring, and potentially four lines of it down the road. If they're going to be adding a big salary, they should be focusing on adding it to the blueline, not another forward. Not with Duchene likely to get Stastny money in a few years, Wolski, and Quincey likely to get around $4 M, O'Reilly, Galiardi, and Hannan (or his replacement) to get $3 M+ and Anderson to get at least $4.5 M and maybe more.
Exactly what I have been saying.

This is the 3rd rumor of Liles being shopped, but the Avs never let rumors out. He is playing awful so I hope he gets dealt.

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12-24-2009, 01:37 PM
  #42
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I agree with Frenchy. I don't want Kovalchuk. It doesn't make any sense to pay what it would cost to get him when we're in rebuild mode. We need to keep our young players and develop them. Things are going well for the age of our team. Why break it for something we really don't need (goal scoring)? If we're going to make a trade/spend more money, I sincerely hope it is on defense. With or without Kovalchuk, considering what we may have to give up to get him, I don't think this team seriously contends for a Stanley Cup. Playoffs? Absolutely. But the Cup? No. So why give up on some young, talented guys for him and his contract? I don't like it and it doesn't really make sense. Beyond that - there are other teams in the running. We will be outbid unless we sell the farm. No thank you.

As for Liles, I like him a lot - probably more than he deserves. But if he got traded, I would understand (unless it's a godawful trade). Go for it, if it's worth it, as far as I'm concerned.

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12-24-2009, 01:42 PM
  #43
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We'll never be good enough to win the cup. The chip is the consolation prize.
lol they use the chip in basketball, I assumed it was the generic term for a major sports league title.

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12-24-2009, 03:44 PM
  #44
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I'd have a hard time saying no to Kovy at $8M as a UFA. Hejduk is not going to to play that many more seasons.

I'm not sure Avs would be able to get him for that price though. I think there will be plenty of interested team at $8M and Avs would probably not be the most attractive one of them.

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12-24-2009, 04:00 PM
  #45
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I'll be alone with my opinion, but here goes:

I don't think bringing Kovalchuk to the Avs would be good in any situation, be it UFA signing or trade.

Say we sign him as an UFA. He won't be cheap. I'd be surprised if any team's going to sign him for less than 9mil. So that's a nice way to handcuff this organization when there's some important players to re-sign.

Trading for him at the deadline would be the last thing I want to see. Atlanta has every reason to demand A LOT for Kovy, and mortgaging our future for a player, however awesome he is, who's likely going to be a rental is something no rebuilding team should ever do. We have a good thing going here, we're not going to be contending for the Cup in the next few years yet. Kovalchuk is not going to change that.

Have lots of beer, bourbon, wine and greasy Christmas food in me, so my English is a bit off, but whatever, Merry Christmas to everyone!!

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12-24-2009, 04:00 PM
  #46
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Anyone who thinks that adding Kovalchuk is a bad idea needs to get their head examined. Kovalchuk is a top 4 player in this league possibly top 3 the way Malkin has played this year.

Kovalchuk>Stewart, Jones, Wolski combined (sorry thats just the way it is)

You are not going to have to give up all 3 of those players to get Kovalchuk. Hypothetically lets say, Wolski and Jones get traded and we keep Stewart. You could still field this lineup...

Kovalchuk-Duchene-Stewart
Galiardi-Stastny-Hejduk
Stoa-O'Reilly-Mcleod
Yip-Hendricks-Mercier

Hannan-Quincey
Cumiskey-Wilson
Shattenkirk-Elliott (we might keep Liles and Foote might come back another year)

Anderson

You're telling me that the above mentioned team couldn't compete for a Cup. That team could easily compete with any team in the league.

Obviously if Kovalchuk gets a contract like 11mil per year then its not worth it, its too much money wrapped up in one player but if you can negotiate a approx 8 mil a year contract then there really is no downside.

You don't win the cup without marquee players. The Avs don't have those type of players any more adding Kovalchuk would instantaneously make Stastny and Duchene better players and they are both good players to begin with. For that matter Kovalchuk would make everyone better players because teams would gameplan around Kovalchuk giving everyone more room to maneuver and become better players.

You people are crazy to not want Kovalchuk. As long as it doesn't cost us an arm an a leg. I'm realistic I know you are going to have to give up some assets to get a player like that.

If we could work a deal where we sent...Wolski, Jones, Hensick, ok prospect like Barrie or Cohen, and a 1st for Kovalchuk and a 2nd I take it and run.

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12-24-2009, 04:23 PM
  #47
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Unless he's guaranteed to sign I don't trade for Kovalchuk. The Avs aren't in a position with their assets to be taking big gambles right now. I'm all for it if we can lure him here as a UFA, but trading for him, especially if he doesn't sign, could set this franchise back quite a few years.

Project your lineup without Kovalchuk signing...we don't really have that much offense.

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12-24-2009, 04:33 PM
  #48
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Let's keep this thing homegrown. Keep drafting well, get the farm system stocked, and let this franchise become what it can be. So long as Craig Billington is making personnel decisions I have faith.

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12-24-2009, 06:33 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Anyone who thinks that adding Kovalchuk is a bad idea needs to get their head examined. Kovalchuk is a top 4 player in this league possibly top 3 the way Malkin has played this year.

Kovalchuk>Stewart, Jones, Wolski combined (sorry thats just the way it is)

You are not going to have to give up all 3 of those players to get Kovalchuk. Hypothetically lets say, Wolski and Jones get traded and we keep Stewart. You could still field this lineup...

Kovalchuk-Duchene-Stewart
Galiardi-Stastny-Hejduk
Stoa-O'Reilly-Mcleod
Yip-Hendricks-Mercier

Hannan-Quincey
Cumiskey-Wilson
Shattenkirk-Elliott (we might keep Liles and Foote might come back another year)

Anderson

You're telling me that the above mentioned team couldn't compete for a Cup. That team could easily compete with any team in the league.

Obviously if Kovalchuk gets a contract like 11mil per year then its not worth it, its too much money wrapped up in one player but if you can negotiate a approx 8 mil a year contract then there really is no downside.

You don't win the cup without marquee players. The Avs don't have those type of players any more adding Kovalchuk would instantaneously make Stastny and Duchene better players and they are both good players to begin with. For that matter Kovalchuk would make everyone better players because teams would gameplan around Kovalchuk giving everyone more room to maneuver and become better players.

You people are crazy to not want Kovalchuk. As long as it doesn't cost us an arm an a leg. I'm realistic I know you are going to have to give up some assets to get a player like that.

If we could work a deal where we sent...Wolski, Jones, Hensick, ok prospect like Barrie or Cohen, and a 1st for Kovalchuk and a 2nd I take it and run.
If its Kovy signed at 7.5-8 mill per year, yes I'd take it. Upgrading from Wolski (who was going to get at least 4.5 to 5 mill anyways) to Kovy is a no brainer, even if we have to give up Jones and a first.

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12-24-2009, 06:45 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Anyone who thinks that adding Kovalchuk is a bad idea needs to get their head examined. Kovalchuk is a top 4 player in this league possibly top 3 the way Malkin has played this year.

Kovalchuk>Stewart, Jones, Wolski combined (sorry thats just the way it is)

You are not going to have to give up all 3 of those players to get Kovalchuk. Hypothetically lets say, Wolski and Jones get traded and we keep Stewart. You could still field this lineup...

Kovalchuk-Duchene-Stewart
Galiardi-Stastny-Hejduk
Stoa-O'Reilly-Mcleod
Yip-Hendricks-Mercier

Hannan-Quincey
Cumiskey-Wilson
Shattenkirk-Elliott (we might keep Liles and Foote might come back another year)

Anderson

You're telling me that the above mentioned team couldn't compete for a Cup. That team could easily compete with any team in the league.

Obviously if Kovalchuk gets a contract like 11mil per year then its not worth it, its too much money wrapped up in one player but if you can negotiate a approx 8 mil a year contract then there really is no downside.

You don't win the cup without marquee players. The Avs don't have those type of players any more adding Kovalchuk would instantaneously make Stastny and Duchene better players and they are both good players to begin with. For that matter Kovalchuk would make everyone better players because teams would gameplan around Kovalchuk giving everyone more room to maneuver and become better players.

You people are crazy to not want Kovalchuk. As long as it doesn't cost us an arm an a leg. I'm realistic I know you are going to have to give up some assets to get a player like that.

If we could work a deal where we sent...Wolski, Jones, Hensick, ok prospect like Barrie or Cohen, and a 1st for Kovalchuk and a 2nd I take it and run.
I think it is going to take more than Wolski and Jones to get Kovi in a trade. I think you are probably looking at those two, and 1st or 2nd round pick, and a non roster prospect. Nobody is going to trade a top level talent for a streaky emerging player and a promising but unproven winger. I also would add that I don't look at the roster you posted and see visions of a cup. Later in their careers Duchene will be a 1st line start and Stewart may but that time has not come yet. I say no to Kovi.

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