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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Damian Cox: Canada's constant home-ice advantage is killing WJCs

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Old
12-24-2009, 03:58 AM
  #51
SchwenningerWildWing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james bond View Post
Does anyone from Europe know why u20 sports are not big in the respective countries?
From a german point of view it is pretty easy. In Germany national teams are important but only when they're winning. For example in handball (a sport I think no one cares in north america) Germany was world champion a few years ago and more than 10 million watched the final. Basketball has Nowitzki and the soccer team is one of the best in the world but the hockey team never won anything except a bronze medal in 78 and hockey has not a big reputation outside the cities with a hockey team. Even the men's national team has problems to draw big crowds outside a WC, so why should anybody in Germany care for a tournament played by kids in a sport where Germany is not good. I can tell you, the WJC has zero media coverage outside some internet hockey sitesand local newspapers in the cities where some of the players are coming from. Only die hard NHL fans in Germany care about this tournament and I'm sure that hosting it in Germany would draw hardly more than 1000 spectators in games without Germany. Belive me, not even every hockey fan in Germany cares about the NHL, so why should they care about the the NHL stars from tommorow. And on a site note, I'm sure that for example luge will draw higher ratings at the olympics than the hockey games. Because Germany is a force in luge. Canada had the u20 soccer world championship. How big was the crowd there? And how interested is the casual canadian sports fan in soccer, let alone u20 soccer? See,that is how interested a casual european hockey fan is interested in the WJC. I think only Sweden is a possible host in Europe, otherwise the WJC should stay in north america


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Old
12-24-2009, 04:52 AM
  #52
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This is one of those rare occasions where I agree with Damien Cox.

This tournament being in Canada/NA so often is getting old, and its only going to get older.

I dont care if all the money is over here, international sport isnt supposed to be about just the money. Its supposed to be a little more altruistic than a corporate entity like the NHL.


Besides, traveling fans are better than home town fans 100% of the time.


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Old
12-24-2009, 04:55 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by kaiser matias View Post
Also surprised that I'll be the first to express disgust in Cox referring to Minsk as a Russian city. Seriously, the USSR broke up over 15 years ago, they are different countries.
He didn't suggest anything like that.

If you had noticed, he talks about the tournament being mostly in Canada, plus a few times in the US, pretty close to Canada, hence the reference to two Russian cities and one pretty close to Russia.

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Old
12-24-2009, 04:55 AM
  #54
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I saw Damien Cox and just decided to skip the rest of the title.

Is this thread about fighting?

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Old
12-24-2009, 04:58 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
cuz everytime they put it in Europe you have 500 fans showing up to watch some games, whereas in Canada you still have 5000-10000 people showing up to watch Belarus vs. Germany.
Lol Canada

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Old
12-24-2009, 06:05 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Discipline View Post
To be fair, wasn't it in Europe for like, five or six years?

I think it should alternate.

1. Europe
2. Canada
3. America

Keep it in that cycle.


How about

1: Sweden
2: Finland
3: Russia
4: Czech Rep
5: Slovakia
6: Switzerland
7: Germany
8: Belarus
9: North America

and keep that cycle?

Europe isn't a country.

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Old
12-24-2009, 06:29 AM
  #57
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It doesn't matter whether Europe is one country or not. You have to take circumstances into account. You can't hold eight out of nine tournaments in Europe, if the one tournament in North America probably gets more fans in the seats than the other eight combined.

You also have to remember that the IIHF finances itself by those tournaments. You take out the WJC as a cash-cow, by putting it somewhere where there is hardly any interest, and you shoot yourself in your own foot. Less money for the IIHF also means less money for European hockey, and thus worse hockey.

First you would have to increase interest in Europe. Which means a slight increase in tournaments held in Europe, and a lot of effort being put into those.
If you have established a base to work from, then you can think about letting the tournament cycle.

Just handing it to all the European countries doesn't get you anywhere. It's like playing a full team of rookies. Sure, they have talent, but without the guidance of experienced pros, they won't get anywhere and you risk hurting them over the longrun.

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Old
12-24-2009, 06:43 AM
  #58
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It should be held in Canada every year. No one gives a crap outside of Canada. Pretty simple.

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Old
12-24-2009, 06:58 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
How about

1: Sweden
2: Finland
3: Russia
4: Czech Rep
5: Slovakia
6: Switzerland
7: Germany
8: Belarus
9: North America

and keep that cycle?
[/B]
That would be ideal but those countries have to want to bid for the WJCs, and that's the problem. Hockey federations aren't always going to want to bid if they know they're going to lose their shirts. The only reason Canada has it again this year is because no one else asked for it when the Swiss pulled out.

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Old
12-24-2009, 07:09 AM
  #60
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Isn't it a bidding process? other countrys can step up and bid higher, they don't because this tournament doesn't attract fans in those countrys. You can hardly Blame canada for this

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Old
12-24-2009, 07:12 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by TheBloodyBeast View Post
It should be held in Canada every year. No one gives a crap outside of Canada. Pretty simple.
They should care. It's an incredible tournament and other countries don't do enough to promote it within their borders. Showing it on TV would help!!!!

Look at that dummy Jackie Parker, who during the Boston tournament said the Beanpot was more important than the WJCs. And he was the U.S. coach!

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Old
12-24-2009, 07:33 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Macman View Post
They should care. It's an incredible tournament and other countries don't do enough to promote it within their borders. Showing it on TV would help!!!!
Countries doesn't decide what's on TV. TV channels does. And they'll show what people want to see. And people want to see what's interesting. And TV channels will show what's inter........ It's the circle of life

And for people with little but developing hockey interest, it's just not that interesting to stay up all night to watch games for a two week (or whatever) period.

People also always talks about how to promote the NHL in Europe to gain more fans. Well you COULD start my not playing 99% of the games at 1 am CET. I LOVE the NHL but I'm not even watching half the games that they show on TV here in Denmark because of the game times.

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Old
12-24-2009, 07:40 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman View Post
They should care. It's an incredible tournament and other countries don't do enough to promote it within their borders. Showing it on TV would help!!!!

Look at that dummy Jackie Parker, who during the Boston tournament said the Beanpot was more important than the WJCs. And he was the U.S. coach!
Junior sports will never be big in Europe. Not only is hockey the second biggest sport in most hockey nations here (Finland excluded), but it is all about senior sport. And when it comes to the junior leagues they are not even among the 50 most popular leagues domestically. There is close to zero interest.

In Canada junior hockey is huge. It might even be the biggest domestic leagues you have.

Night and day. When you have soccer leagues (not only domestic but also Premier League, Serie A, La Liga, Champions League) and all other senior sports competing for attention you realize junior hockey doesn't have a chance over here.

The World Junior Championships are pretty popular here in Sweden on TV, if we think the team has a decent chance. If not, the tournament is pretty dead here. So basically the Forsberg generation, the Sedin generation and now this generation has managed to gather some interest. Between that, not very much.

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Old
12-24-2009, 07:51 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Sovand View Post
Countries doesn't decide what's on TV. TV channels does. And they'll show what people want to see. And people want to see what's interesting. And TV channels will show what's inter........ It's the circle of life

And for people with little but developing hockey interest, it's just not that interesting to stay up all night to watch games for a two week (or whatever) period.

People also always talks about how to promote the NHL in Europe to gain more fans. Well you COULD start my not playing 99% of the games at 1 am CET. I LOVE the NHL but I'm not even watching half the games that they show on TV here in Denmark because of the game times.
When I say countries, I don't mean governments I mean the people who run TV networks, the people who run hockey federations, the people who promote sports, etc. There's no sense arguing there's no interest in Europe for the WJCs when people can't see it. Of course there's no interest when they haven't been exposed to it. And as for watching in the middle of the night, it's not always played in North America.

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Old
12-24-2009, 08:07 AM
  #65
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The thing is that outside of Canada, even if people would come to games they´d only come to the games of the home team. The reason why the tournament is held in Canada so often is also due to the fact that none of the European federations are too eager to organize this tournament. IMO it´s far from a cheap thing and while Canadians can get a lot of money back from the attendance etc´., in Europe it´s pretty much jusr money thrown away. Unlike the WHC, which most usually actually brings lots of money not only to ogranizators, but sponsors of the tourney etc. , beer companies, from TV rights and only God knows from what else.

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Old
12-24-2009, 08:18 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
How about

1: Sweden
2: Finland
3: Russia
4: Czech Rep
5: Slovakia
6: Switzerland
7: Germany
8: Belarus
9: North America

and keep that cycle?

Europe isn't a country.
Neither is North America.

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12-24-2009, 08:20 AM
  #67
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Neither is North America.
I believe that he was actually showing how wrong the first post that said Europe was, refering to CAN+USA as NA.

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12-24-2009, 08:20 AM
  #68
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When you have countries like Switzerland failing to meet their obligations as host country, is it any wonder that the IIHF wants to hold the tournament somewhere, to put it bluntly, more reliable?

This tournament was supposed to be in Europe this year, people. Look to yourselves when wondering why it's not held there more often.

http://www.tsn.ca/canadian_hockey/st...headlines_main

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Switzerland was to stage the 2010 event but withdrew.

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Old
12-24-2009, 08:27 AM
  #69
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When you have countries like Switzerland failing to meet their obligations as host country, is it any wonder that the IIHF wants to hold the tournament somewhere, to put it bluntly, more reliable?

This tournament was supposed to be in Europe this year, people. Look to yourselves when wondering why it's not held there more often.

http://www.tsn.ca/canadian_hockey/st...headlines_main
And do you happen to know the reason why SUI withdrew? IMO they were relegated in 08 and had no reason to be 100% sure that they´d be back in 10´ just easily, would´ve been kinda weird to hold the tourney in a country where the hosting nation wouldn t even play. You´d have like 200 people comming to each game, 198 being scouts. Maybe it shouldn´t be decided so early where the tourney will actually be held.

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12-24-2009, 08:36 AM
  #70
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My opinion is that if any European country wants to improve as a hockey nation, they should embrace and promote this tournament. If they don't it's their loss and not ours. Canada should make no apology if other nations do not support this tournament, and if they don't support it they shouldn't be hosting it. Canada held the U18 soccer tournament a few years ago and averaged 30,000 per game, so at least we're doing our part to promote soccer. So please, spare me the verbal diarrhea from Damien Cox, the WJC is one of the reasons why Canada has been and probably will always remain as the best producing hockey player nation in the world. Leave it to Cox to blame Canada for other nation's shortcomings.

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12-24-2009, 08:43 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by TorFC-TML View Post
Neither is North America.
I was maki9ng a point towards his post where he raked Europe up as a country, and Canada and USA separated.

Don't make smug remarks about stuff you've taken out of context.

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Old
12-24-2009, 08:43 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Macca View Post
My opinion is that if any European country wants to improve as a hockey nation, they should embrace and promote this tournament. If they don't it's their loss and not ours. Canada should make no apology if other nations do not support this tournament, and if they don't support it they shouldn't be hosting it. Canada held the U18 soccer tournament a few years ago and averaged 30,000 per game, so at least we're doing our part to promote soccer. So please, spare me the verbal diarrhea from Damien Cox, the WJC is one of the reasons why Canada has been and probably will always remain as the best producing hockey player nation in the world. Leave it to Cox to blame Canada for other nation's shortcomings.
IMO if an Euopean country wants to improve, of which improving the interest is a big part, it can just easily host the WHC, which still is the best way to promote hockey in Europe. When Sweden hosted the WJC in 07´ I think they did quite a lot of promotion and still outside of SWE games the attendance weren´t any superior to the European countries.

Canadians got their traditions, we´ve got our own with the WHC. And please don´t even start with the without the best players tourney crap, the WHC is still better quality hockey than the WJC. IMO when I look at the Slovak or Czech WJC roster, the majority of those players don´t even have a chance to suit up ina friendly NT game sometime in the future, yet alone the WHC, let´s not even speak about teams like Latvia ro Austria, with all respect to them.

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Old
12-24-2009, 08:44 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by slovakiaforever View Post
And do you happen to know the reason why SUI withdrew? IMO they were relegated in 08 and had no reason to be 100% sure that they´d be back in 10´ just easily, would´ve been kinda weird to hold the tourney in a country where the hosting nation wouldn t even play. You´d have like 200 people comming to each game, 198 being scouts. Maybe it shouldn´t be decided so early where the tourney will actually be held.
Actually, being the host would have led to automatic qualification for Switzerland. It's the reason why Germany is playing in the upcoming World Championship.

Though it still remains an argument. If you don't have the youth to be competitive, it doesn't make much sense to host such a tournament. Better wait till you actually have some good talents available. If you think your players may not be good enough to get you back to the A-pool, chances are you would get destroyed if you participate because of automatic qualification.

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12-24-2009, 08:47 AM
  #74
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Actually, being the host would have led to automatic qualification for Switzerland. It's the reason why Germany is playing in the upcoming World Championship.

Though it still remains an argument. If you don't have the youth to be competitive, it doesn't make much sense to host such a tournament. Better wait till you actually have some good talents available. If you think your players may not be good enough to get you back to the A-pool, chances are you would get destroyed if you participate because of automatic qualification.
Yes, in the WHC it does, I´m not aware of this being true in the WJC however, I´m not 100% sure on this. I just saw it used as an argument why they gave up.

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Old
12-24-2009, 08:58 AM
  #75
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Doesn't matter much any more, as the WJC is pretty much dead already here in Finland. The few fans who used to pay attention to it in the past, do not any more. There are pretty hardcore hockey fans in my friends and even they don't give a **** nowadays. Perhaps the interest would reappear if it was held here again, who knows.

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