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What ails Joe, when it comes out, will change all your minds about his play...

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Old
04-18-2004, 04:26 PM
  #1
scotiahockey
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What ails Joe, when it comes out, will change all your minds about his play...

I spoke todayu with a friend who has daily contact with the Bruins. He told me what joe's ailment is...

I assure you that once it comes out, none of you will be bad-mouthing him about his performance. the fact that he is on the ice at all puts him right up there with the legends and warriors you read about in the hockey history books.

Here is to hoping for a bruins win tomorrow night!

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04-18-2004, 04:31 PM
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Scotia, there is no way you could e-mail it to me is there...If not I understand...

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04-18-2004, 04:33 PM
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I keep saying this but, although it's admirable that he is trying, at this point he needs to realize that his presence out there has become COUNTER productive to his team. Especially with the minutes and position he plays. I would never say Joe isn't tough, but if he thinks that he is helping the team AT ALL in this series he is lying to himself. A true leader recognizes when he is too hurt to help. I really hope he catches a break and scores a huge goal in a game 7 victory. But if he really, really, hurting with a broken rib or whatever it may be. I'd rather make the other guys know they must dig down and do it without him. I think the Bruins without Thornton, with a full effort are still a better all around team than Montreal.

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04-18-2004, 04:35 PM
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I think alot of us understand that, but then why is he playing 20 minutes a game? That's the part that is frustrating us. Now, I agree, other than Nylander, no center here deserves that, but maybe cutting Joe's time back.

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04-18-2004, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotiahockey
I spoke todayu with a friend who has daily contact with the Bruins. He told me what joe's ailment is...

I assure you that once it comes out, none of you will be bad-mouthing him about his performance. the fact that he is on the ice at all puts him right up there with the legends and warriors you read about in the hockey history books.

Here is to hoping for a bruins win tomorrow night!
Amen, buddy.

I've been sitting here biting my tongue, listening to some fans on here.

Believe me- I'll be writing about it, but can't because I have to protect my source, and if I were to go public, it would be pretty obvious to the team who spilled the beans.

In any case, Joe deserves RESPECT, not scorn and saracasm.

Thanks for posting this, Glenn.

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04-18-2004, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trenton1
I keep saying this but, although it's admirable that he is trying, at this point he needs to realize that his presence out there has become COUNTER productive to his team. Especially with the minutes and position he plays. I would never say Joe isn't tough, but if he thinks that he is helping the team AT ALL in this series he is lying to himself. A true leader recognizes when he is too hurt to help. I really hope he catches a break and scores a huge goal in a game 7 victory. But if he really, really, hurting with a broken rib or whatever it may be. I'd rather make the other guys know they must dig down and do it without him. I think the Bruins without Thornton, with a full effort are still a better all around team than Montreal.
With all due respect, if he weren't playing as much, people would be questioning his heart and desire for not playing through the pain.

It's a no-win situation when you aren't producing.

But you know what? There is still one more game left in this series. Should Thornton dial it up in that one, he might be a Boston legend in the making. But if not- I won't hold it against him.

He could have easily shut it down, but has been out there trying to help his team win. Don't blame Joe for the ice time...that's on the coach.

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04-18-2004, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ
With all due respect, if he weren't playing as much, people would be questioning his heart and desire for not playing through the pain.

It's a no-win situation when you aren't producing.

But you know what? There is still one more game left in this series. Should Thornton dial it up in that one, he might be a Boston legend in the making. But if not- I won't hold it against him.

He could have easily shut it down, but has been out there trying to help his team win. Don't blame Joe for the ice time...that's on the coach.
Understood. But it wouldn't be me. I have more respect for the game than any individual playing it.

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04-18-2004, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality
Oh please whatever he has is nowhere near the mount of pain Begin has to play through. He is a choker and he is gonna blame his performance on the injury. Its 3 years in a row that he's just a shadow on the ice.

Well that shodow did score 6 points in 6 games 2 years ago against the Habs in the playoffs.

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04-18-2004, 06:10 PM
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As a more or less objective observer (though a Habs fan) Thornton seems sick more than he seems injured. Since when does a guy who's got bruised ribs look pale and sickly? Plus, he seems weak more than restricted. He let a wicked slap shot go from just inside the blue line last night; he smeared Markov all over the boards in game 2 or 3, and he's able to skate without any apparent difficulty. He just looks listless and a step slower than he needs to be to be effective more than once every three or four shifts, and at both ends of the ice.

Whatever it is that's ailing him, it won't be a completely satisfactory answer to his detractors, especially if the Bruins don't win game 7.

For what it's worth, I think those who are levelling their sights more at Sullivan than Thornton have the right target. My impression is that he simply hasn't adjusted as the series has progressed, preferring instead to go with the same formula in the hope that it can generate one more win. Right now, and based on the way the two teams have played since game one, he may be whistling past the graveyard. The same one in which his coaching career may end up being buried.

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04-18-2004, 06:24 PM
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Thornton is a real talent... and is obviously hurt bad... play with the pain and take heat, don't play and they question his heart, he can't win... At times he looks fine, and Sullivan did say he was getting better, but... speaking of Sullivan, is he being outcoached???

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04-18-2004, 06:32 PM
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wow- what does begin have to play through? and does he carry 3 checkers through all 3 zones on his back every second of every shift?

I don't believe for a second that Joe will blame his injury for his lack of production.

And believe me, what joe is playing through is as painful as anything you realistically COULD play through.

I am amazed that he isnt grimacing every time he makes the smallest bit of contact.

He is obviously on some serious pain medication, probably both oral and local, and most likely this is putting him at less that 100% both physically AND mentally (with the dulling effect of pain meds...)

say what you want... when you know the truth, you will have to tip your collective hats.

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04-18-2004, 06:32 PM
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Man am I glad a thread was started on this. I too am confused about Joe...is he hurt...is he disinterested? Whats the deal? Well I am done questioning his heart. I am convinced he is hurt bad. He knows the importance of these games and he would not no show...it is not in his charachter. I dont think any of us who dont know what the real issue is should be giving him hell. I think it is time to step back, get a grip, realize we are JUST fans, and root our guys on. It all comes down to tomorrow.

Joe Thornton is a terrific player we are lucky to have. I let my emotions get the best of me, but after reading this I look at myself and realize I HAVE NO CLUE HOW BAD HE IS HURT. Guess what....none of us do...besides maybe Scotia and Kirk. So for all of you who want to bash him without knowing the truth about his injury, fine, go for it, but I am sticking with him. He is our captain and he will lead us to a victory tomorrow night.

GO BRUINS!

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04-18-2004, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotiahockey
wow- what does begin have to play through? and does he carry 3 checkers through all 3 zones on his back every second of every shift?

I don't believe for a second that Joe will blame his injury for his lack of production.

And believe me, what joe is playing through is as painful as anything you realistically COULD play through.

I am amazed that he isnt grimacing every time he makes the smallest bit of contact.

He is obviously on some serious pain medication, probably both oral and local, and most likely this is putting him at less that 100% both physically AND mentally (with the dulling effect of pain meds...)

say what you want... when you know the truth, you will have to tip your collective hats.
It will be interesting to say the least. But we'll have to wait because we will prevail game 7......

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04-18-2004, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
Man am I glad a thread was started on this. I too am confused about Joe...is he hurt...is he disinterested? Whats the deal? Well I am done questioning his heart. I am convinced he is hurt bad. He knows the importance of these games and he would not no show...it is not in his charachter. I dont think any of us who dont know what the real issue is should be giving him hell. I think it is time to step back, get a grip, realize we are JUST fans, and root our guys on. It all comes down to tomorrow.

Joe Thornton is a terrific player we are lucky to have. I let my emotions get the best of me, but after reading this I look at myself and realize I HAVE NO CLUE HOW BAD HE IS HURT. Guess what....none of us do...besides maybe Scotia and Kirk. So for all of you who want to bash him without knowing the truth about his injury, fine, go for it, but I am sticking with him. He is our captain and he will lead us to a victory tomorrow night.

GO BRUINS!
Good point...When two class acts like scotia and Kirk stand up, it makes you see things different...Whatever it is, the B's need to play and win it for their captain.

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04-18-2004, 06:44 PM
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i believe it is not as simple as bruised ribs honestly, but we'll see.

All i can say is that thru all the BS'ing i am glad he is right where he belongs, on the ice,.. common guys, just think about it, if he were the sit it out,.... ROLLY !!!#@&%*%#!!! would be our #2 line center,.. no1 can tell me they want that.

Most of us still love ya Joe!

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04-18-2004, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8
It will be interesting to say the least. But we'll have to wait because we will prevail game 7......
Hehe! good point, we'll have to go thru all this stress for another 6 or 7 games against the Flyers,..

Go B's Go !!

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04-18-2004, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
As a more or less objective observer (though a Habs fan) Thornton seems sick more than he seems injured. Since when does a guy who's got bruised ribs look pale and sickly?.........JV
Gonchar looked pale also.

As an "edge of my seat" watcher of games, I don't miss much. Joe's face has looked almost dazed at times.

His play is odd. In a straight line he seems O.K, not 100%, but close. When ever turning, twisting, cutting back, or when the play is in his feet, his movements seem labored.

As for the play of the rest of the team, I have no idea what funk has come over them. If your going to lose, at least go down swinging, is all I ask.

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04-18-2004, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotiahockey
I spoke todayu with a friend who has daily contact with the Bruins. He told me what joe's ailment is...

I assure you that once it comes out, none of you will be bad-mouthing him about his performance. the fact that he is on the ice at all puts him right up there with the legends and warriors you read about in the hockey history books.

Here is to hoping for a bruins win tomorrow night!
I'm glad someone reminded fans of this. I've also heard through a connection what Joe is playing through. Sometimes even I forget about it, since he's not grimacing or anything.

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04-18-2004, 07:02 PM
  #19
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I'm totally mystified, now, and want to know more. I hadn't noticed the dazed appearance, just the inability to push the physical play.

However, he's simply one out of 2 dozen guys. What is their excuse?

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04-18-2004, 07:08 PM
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O.k...I know that I'll likely get flamed for this but here goes

I give Joe all the credit in the world for playing through something that is much more serious than we all know. It certainly erases the questions about his lack of desire, and lack of heart..etc. I have already said in previous posts that it is quite possible that Joe is hurting a lot more than we all know about...and this seems to be confirmed by what Scotia and Kirk have said here.

So the question is....why is he in the lineup?

Seriously....why is he in the lineup? Now before you go and get all pissed off at me and say that I'm not a true Bruins fan for not supporting Joe ....just think about it. Obviously Joe as well as the coaching staff knows that he is hurting badly.......he has valiantly tried to fight through it to try and contribute. But it is obvious that he can not do so. Joe is obviously not going to pull himself out of the lineup, but what about the coach. Does Sullivan have that little faith in the rest of the team without Joe...that he would rather keep a hurting and ineffective Thornton in the lineup, than sit him for the good of the team.

I love Thornton (in a manly sporting way ) but I think that if he is as hurt as is being reported (and I have no reason to doubt it) ..then he should be sat out. Joe's not going to pull himself out of the lineup, but Sullivan should....even if Joe is adamantly opposed to sitting...Sullivan should have the backbone to put the team first.

And I don't buy the arguement that if Joe is sat out then the fans will be all over Sullivan. Most diehard Bruin fans who follow the team regularly can see that Joe has been pretty ineffective this series.............. its not like he has been up and down (production wise) in this series. If he sits Joe out, the casual fan may ***** and groan (especially if they're eliminated in game 7)...but I think that when all is said and done, and the true seriousness of Thorntons condition is finally revealed, that even casual fans will understand why Sullivan did it And if they don't then too bad for them.

The team should always come before an individual player. If a player is hurting the team (even if it is your best player)...than that player should be benched.

Once again I give full credit to Joe for being a true warrior but I think that Sullivan has, and is continuing to make a error by keeping a game but ineffective Joe in the lineup.

Now I'll just wait for people to tell me why the above position makes me A) A bad Bruins fan B) A bandwaggon jumper C) A Thornton hater D) A Sullivan hater E) All of the above.

Flame away.

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04-18-2004, 07:09 PM
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The Thornton thing is tough for people to deal with.

He does not have a great history of carrying the team in the playoffs. That was a big part of the rap on Joe entering these playoffs. He has 0 points and the team has let a 3-1 series lead slip away and now the anxiety level is very high in Bruins Nation entering Game 7. Everyone knows he has an injury of some type. The Canadiens certainly do because they have taken to pounding him and it is obviously wearing him down, it is as plain as day after some of the big hits he has taken. Despite this awareness of his problem, too many fans are still jumping on him for his lack of offensive production. I can understand the emotional reaction, especially in the face of a Canadiens comeback, but I don't understand the lack of willingness to admit there are extenuating circumstances. I was upset with Joe after the Game 6 loss, but after calming down overnight I admit that he's doing what he can.

What can you say? The guy has a real injury. The team's depth chart, with Donato out, Rolston struggling, and Nylander a little dinged (maybe, I would venture to say he is not 100% either) simply cannot do without Joe. So he's in there and he's struggling. The sad thing is that he has not built enough credit with a significant number of fans for them to show some understanding as he struggles along this year. It is probably fair for me to say that the reasons Joe is not producing this year probably don't have much to do with his historical lack of playoff success. I too want him to be scoring big goals and carrying the load, but it's obvious he can't right now and no amount of kvetching will change that. All I can say is that I hope he can finish out the playoffs and the team goes far.

The bottom line is, there are plenty of other guys in the lineup who have to step up to compensate for Joe's struggles and frankly I will be more disappointed if they fail to do that than I am with Joe's performance.

 
Old
04-18-2004, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caper
O.k...I know that I'll likely get flamed for this but here goes

I give Joe all the credit in the world for playing through something that is much more serious than we all know. It certainly erases the questions about his lack of desire, and lack of heart..etc. I have already said in previous posts that it is quite possible that Joe is hurting a lot more than we all know about...and this seems to be confirmed by what Scotia and Kirk have said here.

So the question is....why is he in the lineup?

Seriously....why is he in the lineup? Now before you go and get all pissed off at me and say that I'm not a true Bruins fan for not supporting Joe ....just think about it. Obviously Joe as well as the coaching staff knows that he is hurting badly.......he has valiantly tried to fight through it to try and contribute. But it is obvious that he can not do so. Joe is obviously not going to pull himself out of the lineup, but what about the coach. Does Sullivan have that little faith in the rest of the team without Joe...that he would rather keep a hurting and ineffective Thornton in the lineup, than sit him for the good of the team.

I love Thornton (in a manly sporting way ) but I think that if he is as hurt as is being reported (and I have no reason to doubt it) ..then he should be sat out. Joe's not going to pull himself out of the lineup, but Sullivan should....even if Joe is adamantly opposed to sitting...Sullivan should have the backbone to put the team first.

And I don't buy the arguement that if Joe is sat out then the fans will be all over Sullivan. Most diehard Bruin fans who follow the team regularly can see that Joe has been pretty ineffective this series.............. its not like he has been up and down (production wise) in this series. If he sits Joe out, the casual fan may ***** and groan (especially if they're eliminated in game 7)...but I think that when all is said and done, and the true seriousness of Thorntons condition is finally revealed, that even casual fans will understand why Sullivan did it And if they don't then too bad for them.

The team should always come before an individual player. If a player is hurting the team (even if it is your best player)...than that player should be benched.

Once again I give full credit to Joe for being a true warrior but I think that Sullivan has, and is continuing to make a error by keeping a game but ineffective Joe in the lineup.

Now I'll just wait for people to tell me why the above position makes me A) A bad Bruins fan B) A bandwaggon jumper C) A Thornton hater D) A Sullivan hater E) All of the above.

Flame away.

The only flame I have is that your position conveniently forgets the fact that you have the benefit of knowing that Thornton has been a shell of himself and hasn't produced.

Ask yourself what your position would be if YOU didn't have the foresight to know that he'd be without points six games into it before the series began.

If your answer prior to Game 1 is that he shouldn't have been playing, then more power to you. If in your heart of hearts wanted him in the lineup, then your position is a tad hypocritical.

Either way- as you said- it doesn't make you any less of a fan for wanting him out, but I find it a bit unfair to be posting this on the eve of Game 7. Where was this post on the eve of Game 1?

See what I'm getting at?

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04-18-2004, 07:13 PM
  #23
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I don't really agree that the team is in a funk. They have competed hard and had a lot of good chances. They put together serious pressure on Theodore. It is not like the team is being run over by a much more fired up and dominating team. The Canadiens are simply converting their goal scoring chances while the Bruins are not, at least not as much. The most damning thing you can say about the Bruins in this series is that the defense has been made to look sluggish by the Montreal forwards. That is the one area where the Habs are making the B's look pretty shaky. But overall, the series has been very competitive on both sides and claims that the Bruins have fallen asleep or whatever seem misguided to me.

 
Old
04-18-2004, 07:14 PM
  #24
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I understand...

the need to protect sources and all ... I'm just thrilled to have a site such as this that is frequented by those in "the know", and appreciate what you've passed on. One question though, can anyone with info tell us this ... WHEN we get out of this series, and play another, and another, and then one more ... will Joe be able to "get better" so to speak? Or is this something that will continue to hinder him until he has the summer (and/or surgery) to mend?

thnx

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04-18-2004, 07:14 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
Man am I glad a thread was started on this. I too am confused about Joe...is he hurt...is he disinterested? Whats the deal? Well I am done questioning his heart. I am convinced he is hurt bad. He knows the importance of these games and he would not no show...it is not in his charachter. I dont think any of us who dont know what the real issue is should be giving him hell. I think it is time to step back, get a grip, realize we are JUST fans, and root our guys on. It all comes down to tomorrow.

Joe Thornton is a terrific player we are lucky to have. I let my emotions get the best of me, but after reading this I look at myself and realize I HAVE NO CLUE HOW BAD HE IS HURT. Guess what....none of us do...besides maybe Scotia and Kirk. So for all of you who want to bash him without knowing the truth about his injury, fine, go for it, but I am sticking with him. He is our captain and he will lead us to a victory tomorrow night.

GO BRUINS!
Definately agree with this. I sincerely hope that my continued posting on the matter of Joe Thornton yesterday and today has conveyed my feelings for change of use and not condemnation of Joe. Perhaps, it is Sullivan's fault that Joe is getting rolled over the boards and depended on as a #1 center with all his ailments. Either way, I respect Joe very much for sacrificing so much to be in the line up and trying to help his team. I desperately want him to silence the issue with a big goal in a victorious game 7. But I just think that if he is at the level he has been at the last couple of games then Sullivan must lessen his responsibility in some way be it minutes or position or if it's extremely bad not having had him play at all after game 4 or 5. I believe that would and would have benefitted the entire team. The mere sight of Joe in uniform must lead the others to believe that he will somehow don his superman uniform and carry them. It just cannot happen right now with Joe's condition. Sullivan must make sure he handles this correctly in this deciding game. Winning this game means everything right now. I don't care if Matt Herr comes up and scores the winner. GO B's!

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