This isnt Messier or Gretzky or Mario, i dont think Joe is demanding his minutes or anything, Sullivan has the final say as to who plays what minutes.
Certainly agree with that. But I wouldn't doubt that Joe has been telling Sullivan that he feels better than he really does just to continue to get in there and try and make things work for his team. It's very admirable of Joe to want to be in there and that's why if he ends up failing this spring I will certainly not hold it against him. But on the other hand, if Joe just cannot do it, like Sundin can't right now, I'd rather him know to stay on the sidelines. Again, I really don't know the situation and either way it doesn't make much diffeence now as far as this series goes...Joe will play tonight and I hope he can kick butt.
Okay, Joe's hurt. Blah, blah, blah. Guess what? I don't want any more excuses!! I'm sick and tired of losing to Montreal! I've been a devoted fan of this team since 1968, when I was old enough to pick a team. Since then, we've lost 12 playoff series to this team (winning just five), many of them in heartbreaking fashion. This year looks like number 13. Honestly, at this point, I've already prepared myself for defeat. I'm even willing to accept it AS LONG AS they freaking show up! Pretend like they have some pride in the B on their chest and go down fighting! And when it's all over, we can hold a feast in Warrior Joe's honour and salute him for all he's done for the team. But until then, NO MORE EXCUSES!
Keep in mind that Joe is not making excuses. I have not heard him on TV saying, "ow ow ow I can barely play." And I see a difference between excuses and explanations. For example, if I hit you on the head with a chair, it would be fair to say that you would not be able to tell me the square root of 19 without thinking about it for a little longer than usual. The correct answer would be that you have are distracted pulling wood splinters from your head. That's not an excuse in that case, it is the explanation. In Joe's case, there is as an explanation for his struggles and I don't here him or the team using that as an excuse.
I have no idea what's ailing Joe specifically, though I can make a few educated guesses based on his reactions, his overall look and the occasional squeak we've heard from the media, etc.
My guess? Cracked ribs.
Now, I don't know how many of you have had cracked ribs, but let me just say that it's about the most uncomfortable experience you can go through. I cracked three when I was kneed during a soccer game (and who says soccer isn't a physical sport) and withing about ten minutes I could no longer move. Furthermore, I could no longer sleep since any movement whatsover aggravates the injury - including breathing. No matter what medication you take, there's still some fairly intense pain going on there.
Look at his face: he's white as a sheet. That guy has barely slept in days as far as I can tell. Add to that the fact that every movement for him is probably akin to gnawing his arm off and I'm thinking that he shouldn't be playing at all - since the merest touch probably grates the bones all over the place. When he was cracked good and hard by Komisarek the other night, despite the fact that there was a facewash that required stitches (it *was* an illegal hit), his reaction when he hit the ice - that look of absolute pain on his face - told me it was more than just a face washing. Everyone gets those and 99% grimace for a split second and move on.
I guess I'd have to agree with the poster that said that Joe should know when to cut bait and pull himself out. After two weeks, the pain in that kind of injury is significantly less, and you have to wonder how he'd be now if he'd taken the time off. Perhaps he could have come back infinitely more effective in the final two or three games of the series.
Anyhow, just speculation on my part, but since I've gone through the ribs thing, I thought I'd add my two cents for whatever it's worth. I have tremendous respect if he played through that pain; I tried one soccer game, and it was horrible - and that's soccer where you don't get bodied every time you touch the ball.
Whatever the case, I hope it's a great game tonight. I'll be sad afterwards whether or not Montreal wins or loses. The rest of the playoffs will be completely anti-climactic. I think I'm going to petition the league to make all future Boston-Montreal series a best of 21. I can't think of a better rivalry than this one and, despite a few mutton-heads being dweebs along the way both on and off the ice, it's lived up to its billing and the teams *and fans* should be applauded.
I guess I'd have to agree with the poster that said that Joe should know when to cut bait and pull himself out. After two weeks, the pain in that kind of injury is significantly less, and you have to wonder how he'd be now if he'd taken the time off.
Well, as a Habs fan, you WOULD want him out.
That means your guys can key on Nylander as the only real offensive threat at center on Boston.
As long as Thornton is there, you have to defend him, therefore, by him simply being in the lineup, he is helping the Bruins by not making Montreal's gameplan any easier.
Some people don't seem to grasp this, and that's fine. You seem like a pretty reasonable guy however, so I'm guessing that you will.
Guy: damn tootin! This has been a wild ride and while I can't help but say that I'm disappointed in my team's showing at times, it's been a great series. Everyone is talking about it and it's been wide-open old time hockey the whole way. I compare it with other matchups (NJ & Phi, anyone) and there's just no way this isn't one of the (if not hte) most exciting postseason matchups this year.
You have to respect a guy who's willing to put it all on the line to help his team. The last thing you want is somebody out of the lineup and constantly asking "what if". I respect him for giving it a shot, it's the whole mentality of going down with all your guns blazing.
As long as Thornton is there, you have to defend him, therefore, by him simply being in the lineup, he is helping the Bruins by not making Montreal's gameplan any easier.
Some people don't seem to grasp this, and that's fine. You seem like a pretty reasonable guy however, so I'm guessing that you will.
Not sure I agree with that. Until the third period of game 6 (with the Habs ahead) Julien had the luxury of throwing his first line over the boards whenever the gorilla line was on the ice. That's not what I'd call a difficult coaching choice. This state of affairs allows Julien to use the Bulis/Dowd line to match up against Nylander and Samsonov, though how well that's worked is debatable.
Unless we see Thornton together with Samsonov tonight, I expect that Joe's presence in the lineup will not make Julien's job any tougher than it's already been: and it hasn't been all that tough, frankly....
Okay, Joe's hurt. Blah, blah, blah. Guess what? I don't want any more excuses!! I'm sick and tired of losing to Montreal! I've been a devoted fan of this team since 1968, when I was old enough to pick a team. Since then, we've lost 12 playoff series to this team (winning just five), many of them in heartbreaking fashion. This year looks like number 13. Honestly, at this point, I've already prepared myself for defeat. I'm even willing to accept it AS LONG AS they freaking show up! Pretend like they have some pride in the B on their chest and go down fighting! And when it's all over, we can hold a feast in Warrior Joe's honour and salute him for all he's done for the team. But until then, NO MORE EXCUSES!
this is exactly how i feel. I would like to see some guys step up and win it for joe. other teams can win w/o there ace so why cant muzz,rolly, knubes lapointe find away to help pull it out for captain joe..
Some people don't seem to grasp this, and that's fine. You seem like a pretty reasonable guy however, so I'm guessing that you will.
Yes, I would want him out, and no I wouldn't. I'm divided. Your reasoning is true, without him in the lineup we can focus energies on Nylander and have much less to worry about. On the other hand, there could be a train of though that says: with Thornton out, everyone else steps it up a couple of notches and some unsung hero steps in as a scoring centre and starts lighting it up. By leaving him in the lineup, we know we can put Koivu up against him and the matchup may just work out in our favour.
No doubt this is one of the toughest calls that either Thornton or Sullivan has ever had to make in hockey. They both know what's riding on this one and both want to do the right thing. I'm sure, after the injury has had time to settle after each game, Thornton tell Sullivan that he's feeling better than ever and that he had more sleep than the previous night. He wants to perform - he feels he *can* perform to that highest level.
Sullivan, on the other hand, knows that a Thornton at 75% is still probably better than most others could offer on this team. Even if he makes the Nylander line his number one line and puts someone else at the number two centre position, the likelyhood of that player being better than Joe at 75% is remarkably minimal.
Plus, there's the entire 'what if' scenario that I'm sure keeps them both up at night. What if Thornton pulled himself out and the team gets hammered and loses the series. He'll look like a whimp, like the guy who gave up on his team. But what if he pulls himself out and they win? He'll look like the guy that gave it up for the benefit of his team - putting that team before his own agenda.
What if Sullivan keeps Thornton out and they lose? Could very well be his job right there in one decision. What if he keeps Thornton out and they win? He looks like coaching genious, like he's in tune with his players and not afraid to make the tough choices. His stature amongst the coaching community immediately rises and average Joe Boston fans think he's the best thing since sliced Cherry.
It's either a lose-lose or a win-win. There's no middle ground in this one. Even if it's found out Thornton has internal bleeding and has been running on a Jarvik replacement heart for the series, everything will be questioned if he loses. The reverse is true if they win, of course.
Reality always takes a back seat in situations like these. If he's that hurt, if it's ribs or cartiledge or something like that, most doctors would look at him and laugh if he asked to play. But this isn't reality, it's pro sports and there's more money and prestige on the line in games like these than there is interest in health.
I'm guessing he plays, and plays the number one minutes. I'm not sure I've seen enough from Sullivan to indicate that he's willing to make some of those tough choices - but it could equally be because he knows as well as you or I that Thornton could break out and have a six-point night if he finds his game. Is Joe's failure a chance he's willing to take in putting his best player in the lineup? Probably. Will it backfire and cause him to grey prematurely? Who knows.
I don't envy either or them, nor the rest of the team who have to somehow put on that game face in the face of certain adversity and go out and play like their livse are on the line. If this kind of situation doesn't put even an inkling of doubt in everyone's mind, then I don't think you're human.
I've no idea what the right decision is, nor do I know for sure what I'd like to see. We have a set of circumstances with him in the lineup that's seen Montreal bring this series to seven games - a known factor. In some ways that's infinitely better than the unknown. The devil you know... On the other hand, we're talking about one of the best in the game, and if he breaks out......
I've been watching this series. Joe is one of my favorite players, and I don't think it's fair that these media idiots are doing this. The announcers last game(6) were saying how Thornton was a disappointment and he has to pick it up, and they showed a copy of a news article that was disparaging and rediculous--it wasn't even funny. And I heard that he has an injury, but these announcers must have forgotten that. What is wrong with these people?! Hopefully Joe has a good game to shut them up. And about the media wanting him to give up the C:
If Thornton is that badly hurt, then the question really becomes why is Mike Sullivan giving him 20+ minutes? The Bruins don't have someone better to take Thornton's place in the lineup, but if he is unable to be the team's best player on the ice, then why build your team strategy around having him be the team's best player on the ice?
I don't think Sullivan adapts well to changing circumstances, and I don't think he's very good at putting his players in the best position to succeed.
busted/fractured wrist is my guess (in addition to the ribs as it was very obvious in one of the games he was wearing a flak jacket) - something to that affect was what a little little birdy whispered to me before game 1
No way he is playing with a broken wrist. Too painful. he wouldn't even be able to hold his stick. Lapointe for captain.
Sure you can, Mario played with a broken wrist (Thanks to Adam Graves) in the playoffs in the early 90's -- actually he broke it in the playoffs and he continued on
Just before the action started on the CBC HNIC broadcast I'm sure I heard a report that Joe has torn cartilage in his ribs, didn't anyone else hear this?
Just before the action started on the CBC HNIC broadcast I'm sure I heard a report that Joe has torn cartilage in his ribs, didn't anyone else hear this?
Without a doubt...
Yeah, the suspicions were confirmed (although they really didn't have to be) tonight.
And, by the way, it's after the first as I write this... And Joe is had one HELL of a 1st. For a guy who's injured... Or for a guy that isn't injured for that matter, Thornton sure looks good.
Yeah, the suspicions were confirmed (although they really didn't have to be) tonight.
And, by the way, it's after the first as I write this... And Joe is had one HELL of a 1st. For a guy who's injured... Or for a guy that isn't injured for that matter, Thornton sure looks good.
