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Jacques Martin's system and penalties

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Old
12-26-2009, 08:50 PM
  #1
Little Nilan
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Jacques Martin's system and penalties

Food for thought:


Florida 2005-2006: 6th in the league for most penalties, last for PP opportunities
Florida 2006-2007: 3rd for most penalties ,last for PP opportunities.
Florida 2007-2008: 8th for most penalties, 2nd last for PP opportunities.

Jacques Martin needs to wake up. When something doesn't work, you adapt. You simply can't be this passive in the new NHL without the hooks and holds. You'll get penalized and you won't get any penalties (because you're not putting any kind of pressure in the O zone).

Sometimes it's not the players, but the coach.

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Old
12-26-2009, 08:53 PM
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CN_paladin
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His system sucks for being so passive and forcing us to chase the puck. BG has to find someone else.

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Old
12-26-2009, 08:57 PM
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couris
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he seems to do this system with average teams

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Old
12-26-2009, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
BG has to find someone else.
I doubt Molson would agree to let him waste his money like that. If Martin goes, Gainey goes with him.

There's obviously a problem with the GM if every coach he hires isn't doing the job properly (including Gainey himself). That either means the GM isn't getting his coach the right players or isn't hiring the right coaches. Or both.

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Old
12-26-2009, 09:01 PM
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Martin's system is horrible!

1) We play in our zone for the vast moajority of the game
2) Very little transistion game
3) Too passive of a system; we can't utilize our speed!

BG didn't get a coach that fits the players he brought in!

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Old
12-26-2009, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couris View Post
he seems to do this system with average teams
4 years of having the worst(or amongst) PP/PK ratio and shots against isn't just being average. Montreal and Florida aren't great, but not that bad either.

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Old
12-26-2009, 09:02 PM
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Need a coach who is better suited for the kinds of players on the roster, and martin's conservative defensive style clashes badly with the makeup of this team

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Old
12-26-2009, 09:05 PM
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Like I said
Martin system = playing golf after first round of the playoff lol

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Old
12-26-2009, 09:06 PM
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Little Nilan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIDAS View Post
Need a coach who is better suited for the kinds of players on the roster, and martin's conservative defensive style clashes badly with the makeup of this team
I don't mind a conservative defensive system. I look at Jacques Lemaire, he hid a lot of fundamental problems with the Wild in terms of the players he had, and he's been exceptional with New Jersey. Same thing with CGY, they've been a defensive team since they hired Sutter, but they've also been an aggressive team.

When the Habs use their speed and start playing aggressively, they magically get calls going their way and scoring chances. The Habs are actually not that bad in the neutral zone, but they hesitate to put pressure, there's some good things, but we've been playing a passive, passive 1-4 since the second goal, it's a joke. Why not improve on the good things they do.


EDIT: That second goal was exactly what I'm talking about. With Carbo, you had players running around like headless chickens, now you have well positioned players(though they were all on the boards this time) just waiting and doing nothing.

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Old
12-26-2009, 09:16 PM
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MathMan
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I can't imagine someone hasn't pointed out to Martin that the passive approach simply does not work. It's so bloody obvious that Michel Bergeron is making jokes about it on l'Antichambre.

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:05 PM
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I don't know how Martin has coached so many games in the NHL with what seems like an inability or unwillingness to adapt his system when it's obvious to everyone it's not working.

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:10 PM
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tdecheno
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Yep, you guys all know a lot more than a man with 20+ years experience. Yeah we're giving a lot of shots, but the majority are easy saves.

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:14 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty hates Sergei View Post
Food for thought:


Florida 2005-2006: 6th in the league for most penalties, last for PP opportunities
Florida 2006-2007: 3rd for most penalties ,last for PP opportunities.
Florida 2007-2008: 8th for most penalties, 2nd last for PP opportunities.
Where can I find this? Or what am I looking at incorrectly at nhl.com? When I look up penalties by team, Florida isn't at these positions.

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:15 PM
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MathMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdecheno View Post
Yep, you guys all know a lot more than a man with 20+ years experience. Yeah we're giving a lot of shots, but the majority are easy saves.
And while Halak is making those easy saves, the opposition has the puck which means the Habs aren't scoring.

You shouldn't need 20+ years of experience to notice the bleeding obvious.

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:16 PM
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Sebaldian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdecheno View Post
Yep, you guys all know a lot more than a man with 20+ years experience. Yeah we're giving a lot of shots, but the majority are easy saves.
A man with just a passing knowledge of hockey can see that it's not just the shot total that's the issue here.

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:17 PM
  #16
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Like I said
Martin system = playing golf after first round of the playoff lol
He did make it to a conference finals game 7 against the Devils,but no way we can go forward playing like this

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:18 PM
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Martin's system made some sense back in the days when you could clutch and grab and clog up the neutral zone with dirty play, and not get called for it. I can understand why he used it at one time.

... But it doesn't work in the modern NHL. It doesn't work because the clutching and grabbing will be called, and all the time, now.

Aggressive forecheck/puck control will trump clogging passive defensive systems much more often than not in today's NHL.


You can't win (consistently) by playing the style of the 1995 New Jersey Devils anymore.

Martin needs to adapt... or get replaced.

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:18 PM
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tdecheno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
And while Halak is making those easy saves, the opposition has the puck which means the Habs aren't scoring.

You shouldn't need 20+ years of experience to notice the bleeding obvious.
Yet on the 4 game streak we are scoring a lot. Quality over quantity??

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:19 PM
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Sebaldian
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Does Martin explain why he thinks we get out shot/out played regularly in post game pressers? I assume someone asks him about it. I never listen to them because I don't understand French, can someone that does tell me what exactly he says about it?

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:20 PM
  #20
Mike8
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In fact, according to the stats I'm seeing (again, might be looking at it wrong):

In 08/09, Montreal took 437 minor penalties and averaged 15 PIM / game. That was 9 minor penalties off from the leading team in the league.

This season, Montreal has taken 196 minor penalties, 4 fewer than the leading team (Philly). Essentially on pace for being roughly the same distance off the leading minor-penalty-taking team in the league as they were in 08/09.

Am I reading this wrong somehow?

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:21 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
He did make it to a conference finals game 7 against the Devils,but no way we can go forward playing like this
I guess just only 1 time he did make to the conference final. Hopefully, this stat will prouve me wrong.

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:22 PM
  #22
MathMan
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Originally Posted by tdecheno View Post
Yet on the 4 game streak we are scoring a lot. Quality over quantity??
Quality... or a generous helping of luck.

Problem is, you can't usually tell.

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:22 PM
  #23
tdecheno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Black View Post
Does Martin explain why he thinks we get out shot/out played regularly in post game pressers? I assume someone asks him about it. I never listen to them because I don't understand French, can someone that does tell me what exactly he says about it?
Yeah, he explains that the scoring chances are equal despite the shots against....

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:26 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty hates Sergei View Post
Food for thought:


Florida 2005-2006: 6th in the league for most penalties, last for PP opportunities
Florida 2006-2007: 3rd for most penalties ,last for PP opportunities.
Florida 2007-2008: 8th for most penalties, 2nd last for PP opportunities.
Not that I disagree but in his 5 years before that on a good Senators team he was:

03-04: 19th in total PK's, 7th in PP opp.
02-03: 26th in total PK's, 5th in PP opp.
01-02: 24th in total PK's, 21st in PP opp.
00-01: 21th in total PK's, 13th in PP opp.
99-00: 26th in total PK's, 23rd in PP opp.
98-99: 25th in total PK's, 4th in PP opp.

for an average on : 24th in total PK's and 12th in PP opp. Not too bad, actually pretty good. It depends more on the quality of the team that he coach than his style IMO. but yes he needs to change a few things dor sure...shots against, shots for, Faceoff%...

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:28 PM
  #25
Mike8
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Originally Posted by NHLcrazy View Post
Not that I disagree but in his 5 years before that on a good Senators team he was:

03-04: 19th in total PK's, 7th in PP opp.
02-03: 26th in total PK's, 5th in PP opp.
01-02: 24th in total PK's, 21st in PP opp.
00-01: 21th in total PK's, 13th in PP opp.
99-01: 26th in total PK's, 23rd in PP opp.
98-99: 25th in total PK's, 4th in PP opp.

for an average on : 24th in total PK's and 12th in PP opp. Not too bad, actually pretty good. It depends more on the quality of the team that he coach than his style IMO. but yes he needs to change a few things dor sure...shots against, shots for, Faceoff%...
Those stats are largely irrelevant since they were pre-lockout, and the argument is that Martin hasn't adapted. Not to dismiss your well-researched response!

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