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Bob Probert's Fighting Created The Instigator Rule

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Old
07-06-2010, 01:05 AM
  #1
puckhead103*
 
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Bob Probert's Fighting Created The Instigator Rule

i've just watched some old battles of the late bob probert from 80s and early 90s and i started thinking about the instigator rule....

the instigator rule was put in place, ironically, around the same time where probert had his battles on the ice...

gil stein, the person who pushed this rule, felt that increased fighting in the NHL may lead to someone getting murdered on the ice.......

ironically, probert had a comment about this after the rule took effect...

Quote:
"It doesn't seem like the same game as a year ago," said Detroit winger Bob Probert -- ironically, one of the few front-line players who's a big-time fighter. "Some of the penalties are a joke. It's not the way hockey as meant to be played."

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08-14-2010, 02:19 AM
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c-carp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckhead103 View Post
i've just watched some old battles of the late bob probert from 80s and early 90s and i started thinking about the instigator rule....

the instigator rule was put in place, ironically, around the same time where probert had his battles on the ice...

gil stein, the person who pushed this rule, felt that increased fighting in the NHL may lead to someone getting murdered on the ice.......

ironically, probert had a comment about this after the rule took effect...
Probie was 100% right in that quote.

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08-14-2010, 09:11 AM
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You want to blame someone/something for the instigator rule, here ya go: US NETWORK TV

The network execs thought that Americans 'wouldn't regularly watch hockey if if was full of fighting' ( I'm paraphrasing), so they wanted the NHL to do something to curtail it before inking a TV deal with the league. The NHL dropped their pants & agreed to add this ridiculous new rule to help minimize scraps, thus altering a century-old game to help solidify a US TV deal. And lets not forget, US network TV also thought that Americans couldn't follow hockey because they couldn't see the puck, so they introduce 'Fox Trax' - that glowing puck debacle. Another great call!

I still don't fathom how anyone - let alone TV execs - would think that Americans WOULDN'T like to see fights during a hockey game?

Sure, there are some bleeding-hearts who think that hockey-fights teach kids to be violent sociopaths, but they're the same people that probably let their kids watch the freakin' WWF - which for the record, is nothing but 'violence', and yet has been a ratings giant for years for cryin' out loud.

Bottom line, when there's a bench-clearing brawl in baseball...it's the lead story on ESPN. The 'Bottom of the 9th, bases loaded walk-off homer' isn't - the brawl is. Americans love a little healthy violence. (Just like us Canucks)

But, thanks to the need for a lucrative TV deal - we get the insitgator rule, and to this day it stands... even though the NHL's TV deal is now with the mighty Versus network... who aren't exactly NBC or Fox.

/Rant

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08-16-2010, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CaribbeanCanuck View Post
You want to blame someone/something for the instigator rule, here ya go: US NETWORK TV

The network execs thought that Americans 'wouldn't regularly watch hockey if if was full of fighting' ( I'm paraphrasing), so they wanted the NHL to do something to curtail it before inking a TV deal with the league. The NHL dropped their pants & agreed to add this ridiculous new rule to help minimize scraps, thus altering a century-old game to help solidify a US TV deal. And lets not forget, US network TV also thought that Americans couldn't follow hockey because they couldn't see the puck, so they introduce 'Fox Trax' - that glowing puck debacle. Another great call!

I still don't fathom how anyone - let alone TV execs - would think that Americans WOULDN'T like to see fights during a hockey game?

Sure, there are some bleeding-hearts who think that hockey-fights teach kids to be violent sociopaths, but they're the same people that probably let their kids watch the freakin' WWF - which for the record, is nothing but 'violence', and yet has been a ratings giant for years for cryin' out loud.

Bottom line, when there's a bench-clearing brawl in baseball...it's the lead story on ESPN. The 'Bottom of the 9th, bases loaded walk-off homer' isn't - the brawl is. Americans love a little healthy violence. (Just like us Canucks)

But, thanks to the need for a lucrative TV deal - we get the insitgator rule, and to this day it stands... even though the NHL's TV deal is now with the mighty Versus network... who aren't exactly NBC or Fox.

/Rant

Great post Carribean, A lot of us in the US love the fights and will freely admit it. The NHL is way off base in the way they deal with the aspect of fighting in the game and have been for a long time.

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08-16-2010, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckhead103 View Post
i've just watched some old battles of the late bob probert from 80s and early 90s and i started thinking about the instigator rule....

the instigator rule was put in place, ironically, around the same time where probert had his battles on the ice...

gil stein, the person who pushed this rule, felt that increased fighting in the NHL may lead to someone getting murdered on the ice.......

ironically, probert had a comment about this after the rule took effect...
That's pretty much coincidence more than anything. You just happened to be watching Probert. A lot of guys were just as merciless on an opponent who drew the ire of a tough guy and when they wanted to fight they were gonna fight. If you didn't have your wits about you you'd be eating punches repeatedly before your gloves were even off.


Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp View Post
Great post Carribean, A lot of us in the US love the fights and will freely admit it. The NHL is way off base in the way they deal with the aspect of fighting in the game and have been for a long time.
I think they're finally getting a little better and at least marketing it a bit. They had some notable fights from this past season on the NHL homepage under this season's highlights. Maybe they're finally starting to acknowledge that fans want to see physical and passionate hockey where emotions tend to boil over instead of players chatting like baseball players when they reach base.

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Old
08-16-2010, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckhead103 View Post
i've just watched some old battles of the late bob probert from 80s and early 90s and i started thinking about the instigator rule....

the instigator rule was put in place, ironically, around the same time where probert had his battles on the ice...

gil stein, the person who pushed this rule, felt that increased fighting in the NHL may lead to someone getting murdered on the ice.......

ironically, probert had a comment about this after the rule took effect...
Probert may have had something to do with the rule, but if you ever want to check out a great read on fighting in the game of hockey pick up a copy of Ross Bernstien's "The Code". The book is all about fighting in the game of hockey. There is alot of great material in it coming directly from the enforcers themselves.

In the book, Bernstien comes out to say that more so than Probert, the rule applied to Dave Semenko, who had enough of guys like Sheehy who would chep shot guys and run his mouth. In games VS the Oil Semenko would just look to take him out altogether in his first shift etc. Instigator was born to prevent guys from exacting the revenge with an "un-willing" combatant like a Sheehy.

Off topic somewhat but I love the quote from Tony Twist in the opening pages of the book. Basically it's him on his own thoughts about what it was like to be an enforcer during that era. Don't remember the exact quote but something like this. "Imagine you had fight the toughest kid on the block on a regular basis. Now imagine having to do it in front of 18,000 people watching you!"

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08-16-2010, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
1976-77 - Rule dealing with fighting amended to provide a major and -tame[sic] misconduct penalty for any player who is clearly the instigator of a fight.
http://www.tmlfever.com/thegame.html

Quote:
Robert A. Probert (June 5, 1965– July 5, 2010)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Probert


Probert was like 10 or 11 when the instigator rule was first put into place.

Quote:
You want to blame someone/something for the instigator rule, here ya go: US NETWORK TV
Maybe, although at the time the rule was added, the NHL was on something called 'the NHL Network' which was just a smattering of independent stations, so I doubt they had much pull.

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08-16-2010, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
http://www.tmlfever.com/thegame.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Probert

Probert was like 10 or 11 when the instigator rule was first put into place.

Maybe, although at the time the rule was added, the NHL was on something called 'the NHL Network' which was just a smattering of independent stations, so I doubt they had much pull.
The Instigator rule as we know it today, was established in 1992. It has been tweaked slightly since then... but for all intents & purposes, it was 92'.


"The instigator rule was adopted by general managers for the 1992-93 season. It included a five-minute fighting penalty and game misconduct. The two-minute penalty was added and the game misconduct was changed to a 10-minute misconduct for 1996-97"


A good read on the subject: http://www.sptimes.com/2002/05/04/Sp...ht_rule_.shtml

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08-17-2010, 12:23 PM
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Ross Bernstein's book "The Code" that Lion Hound mentioned is a must read for hockey fight fans. The Authors perspective is cool because he was a college hockey player who knew the game but needed to understand fighting better.

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Old
08-17-2010, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PuckHogs29 View Post
That's pretty much coincidence more than anything. You just happened to be watching Probert. A lot of guys were just as merciless on an opponent who drew the ire of a tough guy and when they wanted to fight they were gonna fight. If you didn't have your wits about you you'd be eating punches repeatedly before your gloves were even off.




I think they're finally getting a little better and at least marketing it a bit. They had some notable fights from this past season on the NHL homepage under this season's highlights. Maybe they're finally starting to acknowledge that fans want to see physical and passionate hockey where emotions tend to boil over instead of players chatting like baseball players when they reach base.

I hope they are starting to figure it out

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