HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Smyth, Horcoff, 1st rd pick for...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-16-2004, 07:36 PM
  #1
Harley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,316
vCash: 500
Smyth, Horcoff, 1st rd pick for...

Smyth, Horcoff and Edmonton's second first round pick in 2004 (from Philly) for Vincent Lecavalier.

Will exchange Horcoff for Steve Staios if necessary.

Oilers have a ton of depth on the wing and trading Smyth, while painful, won't sink the team. What they don't have, and haven't had since Gretzky left, is two top flight centres. Horcoff put up acceptable totals playing centre for the Oilers this year. (good kid, good attitude, not a great player)

Flame away.

Harley is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 07:53 PM
  #2
rev
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley
Smyth, Horcoff and Edmonton's second first round pick in 2004 (from Philly) for Vincent Lecavalier.

Will exchange Horcoff for Steve Staios if necessary.

Oilers have a ton of depth on the wing and trading Smyth, while painful, won't sink the team. What they don't have, and haven't had since Gretzky left, is two top flight centres. Horcoff put up acceptable totals playing centre for the Oilers this year. (good kid, good attitude, not a great player)

Flame away.
i cant see tampa doing that.

rev is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 08:01 PM
  #3
Vyse64
N64
 
Vyse64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,762
vCash: 611
Send a message via MSN to Vyse64
i wouldn't do that even if it was for vinny

Vyse64 is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 08:03 PM
  #4
Hawkalyzer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 1,694
vCash: 500
make sure PROPOSAL: is put before the content


dont think either team would do this tho

Hawkalyzer is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 08:18 PM
  #5
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,846
vCash: 500
Lecavalier just isn't going to be on the market any time soon, and that offer isn't enough of an overpayment to make it worth Tampa Bay's while. Lecavalier is a point per game #1 center or more, whose rights will belong to his team for a long time yet. Players like that don't get traded.

Drake1588 is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 08:55 PM
  #6
Cap'n Flavour
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Romania
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Cap'n Flavour Send a message via MSN to Cap'n Flavour
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
Lecavalier just isn't going to be on the market any time soon, and that offer isn't enough of an overpayment to make it worth Tampa Bay's while. Lecavalier is a point per game #1 center or more, whose rights will belong to his team for a long time yet. Players like that don't get traded.
... except he has been on the market before and he could fetch a lot in a trade, so I don't think it's fair to say they won't consider trading him at all.

Cap'n Flavour is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 09:26 PM
  #7
Hans Moleman
Was saying Boortuzzi
 
Hans Moleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: FTW
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,643
vCash: 500
In the last 5 years Smyth has scored 294 points and LeCavalier has scored 299.
Not exactly a definitive comparison, and yes LeCavalier is younger but i'm just noting this for people thinking that package is an underpayment.
Horcoff scored 40 points this year, he makes $800,000, and would play very well in the fast and offensive minded Tampa system and that's a 1st rounder being thrown in for free.

LeCavalier has never been a PPG player in the NHL, not ever. However, I would love him on the Oilers, just not for that trade proposal.

Hans Moleman is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 10:39 PM
  #8
Heater15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
Lecavalier just isn't going to be on the market any time soon, and that offer isn't enough of an overpayment to make it worth Tampa Bay's while. Lecavalier is a point per game #1 center or more, whose rights will belong to his team for a long time yet. Players like that don't get traded.
But players like Gretzky and Bourque do?

HA

Heater15 is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 12:49 AM
  #9
TVanek26*
 
TVanek26*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Buffalo,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,583
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TVanek26*
Lecavalier is a franchise player.....Edmonton would have to offer Hemsky and Brewer.

TVanek26* is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 12:54 AM
  #10
Oiltalk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Lecavalier is a franchise player.....Edmonton would have to offer Hemsky and Brewer.
Now that's a big overpayment if I ever heard of one. Who's to say Hemsky doesn't become that franchise player, and that Brewer doesn't become a top 10 dman in the league within 3 years?

Oiltalk is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 01:20 AM
  #11
TVanek26*
 
TVanek26*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Buffalo,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,583
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TVanek26*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
Now that's a big overpayment if I ever heard of one. Who's to say Hemsky doesn't become that franchise player, and that Brewer doesn't become a top 10 dman in the league within 3 years?


Brewer's already 25 and has shown nothing spectacular....he is a top 2 pairing guy,not a top d-man...


Hemsky is still young and in 2 seasons has hit 30 points both times...but in Lecavalier's 2nd year he already hit 67 points....it's somewhat close of the value between Vinny Lecavalier and Ales Hemsky but it would take someone of good but not great value...Eric Brewer.

TVanek26* is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 01:48 AM
  #12
bleedgreen
Moderator
 
bleedgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: colorado
Posts: 10,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Flavour
... except he has been on the market before and he could fetch a lot in a trade, so I don't think it's fair to say they won't consider trading him at all.
vinny was never on the market. its all media speculation. its time to let it go.
when your team is on the rise, young, talented. why would you trade one of your best young players? it just doesnt make sense. and for those two? i love smyth and horcoff isnt bad - but not for vinny. smyth can be eventually had in a salary dump anyway, pretty soon....and for a lot less then vinny. not to mention how could the oilers afford vinny for any length of time?


Last edited by bleedgreen: 04-17-2004 at 01:51 AM.
bleedgreen is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 02:01 AM
  #13
Epsilon
#TeamHolland
 
Epsilon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 35,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Lecavalier is a franchise player.....Edmonton would have to offer Hemsky and Brewer.
Frankly I think the first package offered is better, depending on the draft pick.

Epsilon is online now  
Old
04-17-2004, 04:06 AM
  #14
vega007
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Calgary/Boston
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
why would edmonton do this, they wouldn't be able to afford to keep him


see: guerin and weight

vega007 is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 05:10 AM
  #15
Hans Moleman
Was saying Boortuzzi
 
Hans Moleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: FTW
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vega007
why would edmonton do this, they wouldn't be able to afford to keep him


see: guerin and weight
Of course they wouldn't do this, because Edmonton is the only team that has ever dumped salary, everyone knows this.

Hans Moleman is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 08:05 AM
  #16
Peter Sidorkiewicz
Kovalchuk Army
 
Peter Sidorkiewicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,707
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley
Smyth, Horcoff and Edmonton's second first round pick in 2004 (from Philly) for Vincent Lecavalier.

Will exchange Horcoff for Steve Staios if necessary.

Oilers have a ton of depth on the wing and trading Smyth, while painful, won't sink the team. What they don't have, and haven't had since Gretzky left, is two top flight centres. Horcoff put up acceptable totals playing centre for the Oilers this year. (good kid, good attitude, not a great player)

Flame away.
You could probably get Martin Havlat and Radek Bonk from Ottawa with that deal which would be far better than just Lecavalier. I think Havlat by himself is better than Lecavalier anyway.

Peter Sidorkiewicz is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 11:30 AM
  #17
Oiltalk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Brewer's already 25 and has shown nothing spectacular....he is a top 2 pairing guy,not a top d-man...


Hemsky is still young and in 2 seasons has hit 30 points both times...but in Lecavalier's 2nd year he already hit 67 points....it's somewhat close of the value between Vinny Lecavalier and Ales Hemsky but it would take someone of good but not great value...Eric Brewer.
Brewer is only 25, still has 5 years to reach his prime, and it's not like he's a slouch right now. Trading him along with your most talented player(could perhaps be as good as Havlat one day)for a guy who isn't a point per game player is an overpayment.

Oiltalk is offline  
Old
04-17-2004, 12:23 PM
  #18
TVanek26*
 
TVanek26*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Buffalo,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,583
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TVanek26*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
Brewer is only 25, still has 5 years to reach his prime, and it's not like he's a slouch right now. Trading him along with your most talented player(could perhaps be as good as Havlat one day)for a guy who isn't a point per game player is an overpayment.


If you have not shown any flashes of being a premier d-man by 25,you probably aren't going to become one.Lecavalier also does more then score...he is a leader,throws the body and can fight when needed too.

TVanek26* is offline  
Old
04-18-2004, 01:04 AM
  #19
s7ark
LeonTheProfessional
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
If you have not shown any flashes of being a premier d-man by 25,you probably aren't going to become one.Lecavalier also does more then score...he is a leader,throws the body and can fight when needed too.

Uh but Brewer HAS shown those flashes. The last half of this year he looked VERY solid.

Moot point as I don't think Brewer will be moved

s7ark is offline  
Old
04-18-2004, 01:20 AM
  #20
TVanek26*
 
TVanek26*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Buffalo,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,583
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TVanek26*
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Uh but Brewer HAS shown those flashes. The last half of this year he looked VERY solid.

Moot point as I don't think Brewer will be moved


I saw a few Edmonton games and didn't see any flashes of Brewer becoming a top 5 d-man.I'm almost confident that Brewer will be a steady top 2 pairing d-man but I was questioning Brewer showing flashes that he can become an elite d-man.

TVanek26* is offline  
Old
04-18-2004, 01:09 PM
  #21
windowlicker
Registered User
 
windowlicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Murky Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 2,181
vCash: 500
I would'nt do this if I were Edmonton.

windowlicker is offline  
Old
04-18-2004, 01:34 PM
  #22
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,120
vCash: 500
Neither team will do this.

Smyth is still worth a lot more than folks seem to think. How many guys play as hard as he does? Not many. He's also a lot more skilled than some seem to think.

That said, the Bolts aren't going to move a franchise centreman in Vincent Lecavalier. he hasn't truely broken out yet, but if you watch him for any amount of time, you see flashes of absolute greatness in him. He's not super-expensive, and he's very young - there should be no reason for the Bolts to move him.

As for Hemsky & Brewer for Lecavalier, again, I don't think this is enough either (I agree with Epsilon though, that the first deal was maybe better). That said, the Oilers shouldn't do it either. Hemsky's value is not as huge as it normally would be, and down the road you can expect his value to only rise. Brewer is running out of time, but still is a valuable top 4 defenseman.

Mizral is offline  
Old
04-18-2004, 01:51 PM
  #23
SerbianEagle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Edmonton
Country: Serbia
Posts: 3,537
vCash: 500
This trade doesn't work for either team. What does Edmonton accomplish by resolving one hole in the lineup, while creating two other holes.

Also why would Tampa trade Lecavlier?

SerbianEagle is offline  
Old
04-18-2004, 09:20 PM
  #24
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Brewer is running out of time, but still is a valuable top 4 defenseman.
I'll never understand how people can say this. Eric Brewer is 25 years old and is a top pairing d-man.. how is he running out of time? Most d-men don't reach their prime till they're 30 years or even older. While Brewer hasn't become the franchise player yet that some people expected, he still has a number of years to improve his play and become a true number one d-man.

Cerebral is offline  
Old
04-18-2004, 09:29 PM
  #25
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
If you have not shown any flashes of being a premier d-man by 25,you probably aren't going to become one.Lecavalier also does more then score...he is a leader,throws the body and can fight when needed too.
What about Chara? He was 25-26 years old before he started finally showing signs that he could be a premier d-man. His value was somewhat high mostly because of his size, he didn't show very much on Long Island. Adrian Aucoin started coming into his own when he was around 25ish years old. He's probably not a #1 d-man but he really progressed during the 1998-1999 season. Another Oiler, Steve Staios, didn't really start showing a lot as a defenceman till he joined up with the Oilers in 2001 - he was 27 years old.

All these players had a fairly similar past to Brewer and didn't become ace defenceman during their first couple years in the league. Brewer has shown "flashes" of being an elite defender in the league - he has also played very inconsistently at times. While I don't think he's ever going to put up Rob Blake type numbers from the back end, Brewer still has a lot of years left in his career to become an elite defenceman.

Cerebral is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.