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Team Canada chalk full of future Hall of Famers? Lets examine

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Old
12-30-2009, 10:53 PM
  #1
Big Phil
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Team Canada chalk full of future Hall of Famers? Lets examine

Just thought we'd do it for fun. The highest number of Hall of Famers on a Team Canada was at the 1976 Canada Cup. There were 17. Vachon should be a HHOFer and that would make it 18. Besides the other players (with the exception of Jimmy Watson) were either playing like HHOFers at that time or are close by in career value. That is Leach, P. Mahovlich, Martin and Gare.

But I thought we'd make a projection on Team Canada 2010. While a few of them are mortal locks right now and in the very near future, the truth is most of them are young and have a lot of career ahead of them to judge. This is not written in stone. It's done for fun. And this is a PROJECTION. Eric Staal is NOT a HHOFer if he retired tomorrow. By the end of his career? I think he will be. That's how I will judge it.

Goalies:
Brodeur (yes)
Luongo (yes) - hard to ever see the HHOF keeping him out, playoff god or not
Fleury (yes) - he'll be in by the end of his career. Too much talent and already is slowly sneaking up the playoff wins list. Future Cups will make him difficult to ignore


Defense:
Pronger (yes)
Niedermayer (yes)
Weber (yes) - judging on his career curve I think he'll be remembered as one of the best d-men of this era
Keith (yes) - see Weber's explanation
Boyle (yes) - A bold prediction but he's thrived in his early 30s so far
Doughty (yes) - okay he is a sophomore, way too young to get excited, but when was the last time a defenseman reminded you of Bourque?

Seabrook (no) - I like him but he likely isn't on the team without being Keith's partner. He's the weaker of the two, good but by career's end not great IMO

Forwards:
Crosby (yes)
Thornton (yes) - done too much already
Getzlaf (yes) - will be a star in the NHL for a long time
Heatley (yes) - unless a Sens fan or a traffic cop (I kid, I kid) is on the HHOF committe, he'll be in there
Iginla (yes) - one of the best of his generation, that means a HHOF lock
Staal (yes) - it might be taking a flyer on him to say yes but he's still only 25
Nash (yes) - this is about the age a powerforward starts to dominate
Toews (yes) - too much talent IMO not to be a superstar for a decade or so, plus he might captain a couple Cup winning teams

Marleau (possible) - when you look at his career numbers they aren't too bad, and with this new found line in SJ who knows?
Richards (possible) - he has a lot to do before ever getting consideration
Morrow (no) - you'd take him on your team, but you'd say the same about Gary Roberts
Perry (no) - nothing shouts "Future HHOFer" to me about him. Just a good scoring winger
Bergeron (no) - not good enough to make that lasting impact. Just effective

That's 17 by my count. Hey it could be more or it could be significantly less. But this is what we do at HF, project.

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12-30-2009, 11:01 PM
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Alfredsson11
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There are so many young players, you don't know how their career will unfold, so how can you see whether they will be in the HHOF or not?

Doesn't really make sense.

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12-30-2009, 11:01 PM
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It's way too early for Weber, Keith, Getzlaf, Nash and Staal. Luongo, Boyle - right now far awaaaayyyyy. I don't see how Dan ****in Boyle will end up in HoF honestly. Heatley - hell of goalscorer but hall of famer?
Doughty can become Phaneuf 2. You never know but i don't think most of them will finish in HoF.

Broduer, Pronger, Scott N and Iginla are locks now. Crosby and Jumbo Joe almost.

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12-30-2009, 11:15 PM
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Brodeur (yes)
Luongo (no)
Fleury (no)

Defense:
Pronger (yes)
Niedermayer (yes)
Weber (no)
Keith (no) - see Weber's explanation
Boyle (no) - A bold prediction but he's thrived in his early 30s so far
Doughty (no)
Seabrook (no)

Forwards:
Crosby (yes)
Thornton (yes)
Getzlaf (no)
Heatley (no)
Iginla (no)
Staal (no)
Nash (no)
Toews (no)

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Old
12-30-2009, 11:33 PM
  #5
Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claypool View Post
Brodeur (yes)
Luongo (no)
Fleury (no)

Defense:
Pronger (yes)
Niedermayer (yes)
Weber (no)
Keith (no) - see Weber's explanation
Boyle (no) - A bold prediction but he's thrived in his early 30s so far
Doughty (no)
Seabrook (no)

Forwards:
Crosby (yes)
Thornton (yes)
Getzlaf (no)
Heatley (no)
Iginla (no)
Staal (no)
Nash (no)
Toews (no)
Wow! I mean the HHOF has a somewhat liberal policy but I don't know anyone THAT strict. You really think Luongo and Fleury will never make it? They have the earmarks to do it. But a few of the forwards shocked me. You wouldn't put Iginla in there by the end of his career? Or Getzlaf? Seems to me he's on the right track to a long stop at superstardom.

By the way this isn't about RIGHT NOW. It's in the future. Pretend you have a crystal ball. Judge their career so far and make a projection on where their career curve and accomplishments will take them, barring injury

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12-30-2009, 11:42 PM
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I'd say the only 100% locks are Brodeur, Niedermayer, and Pronger. If Joe can lead his team to a Cup and have a few more 100 point seasons, he'll be in. Crosby will likely go in, but still a bit soon.

Anyone else is too early or a no.

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12-30-2009, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Wow! I mean the HHOF has a somewhat liberal policy but I don't know anyone THAT strict. You really think Luongo and Fleury will never make it? They have the earmarks to do it. But a few of the forwards shocked me. You wouldn't put Iginla in there by the end of his career? Or Getzlaf? Seems to me he's on the right track to a long stop at superstardom.

By the way this isn't about RIGHT NOW. It's in the future. Pretend you have a crystal ball. Judge their career so far and make a projection on where their career curve and accomplishments will take them, barring injury
Name ONE thing that Luongo has done in his career to warrant a Hall of Fame induction.

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12-30-2009, 11:47 PM
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Goalies:
[B]Brodeur (yes)
Luongo (Possible)
Fleury (Possible)

Defense:
[B]Pronger (yes)
Niedermayer (yes)
Weber (No)
Keith (No)
Boyle (dear god no. If Zubov isn't a lock no way Boyle is.)
Doughty (possible)
Seabrook (no)

Forwards:
[B]Crosby (yes)
Thornton (yes)
Getzlaf (Possible)
Heatley (yes)
Iginla (yes)
Staal (Possible)
Nash (Possible)
Toews (possible)
Marleau (good possibility)
Richards (possible)
Morrow (no)
Perry (no)
Bergeron (no) -


Last edited by Heat McManus: 12-30-2009 at 11:52 PM.
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Old
12-30-2009, 11:51 PM
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They'll all make it. The Hockey Hall of Fame is easier to get in to than Florida State.

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Old
12-30-2009, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heat McManus View Post
So, right now, the all-time leader in virtually every category for the SJ Sharks doesn't make it, but Eric Staal does?

lost some respect here.
is this the San Jose Hall of fame?

but i agree Marleau and Staal arent getting in.

The only guy i can see going in are Crosby, Neid, Pronger, Brodeur and Thornton with a shot

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12-31-2009, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claypool View Post
Brodeur (yes)
Luongo (no)
Fleury (no)

Defense:
Pronger (yes)
Niedermayer (yes)
Weber (no)
Keith (no) - see Weber's explanation
Boyle (no) - A bold prediction but he's thrived in his early 30s so far
Doughty (no)
Seabrook (no)

Forwards:
Crosby (yes)
Thornton (yes)
Getzlaf (no)
Heatley (no)
Iginla (no)
Staal (no)
Nash (no)
Toews (no)
I'd change Iginla to a yes, but otherwise yeah, pretty much.

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12-31-2009, 12:11 AM
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I'll play.

Goalies:
Brodeur (yes) - lock
Luongo (yes) - he'll win something before his career is done lol
Fleury (no) - just don't think he'll be good enough

Defense:
Pronger (yes) - lock
Niedermayer (yes) - lock
Weber (no) - he'll prob make some more team canada's, but like boyle not good enough for the HHOF
Keith (yes) - Now that he's found his offensive game, and still only 26, I think he'll have a long list of good seasons in the future
Boyle (no) - no chance
Doughty (yes) - he's on this team at this age, future potential is huge.
Seabrook (no) - shutdown guys are usually guys that dont go to the hall

Forwards:
[B]Crosby (yes) - lock
Thornton (yes) - lock
Getzlaf (yes) - has already had some great seasons, he repeats a few more and he'll be in
Heatley (no) - D-bag. lol what? it's my list.
Iginla (yes) - lock
Staal (no) - be a good 80 point player, but won't make the cut
Nash (no) - i'll predict he won't dominate for enough seasons to make the cut
Toews (yes) - he'll put up the points along with the leadership and two way play.
Marleau (no) - no chance
Richards (no) - will be a great player, but i'll say he won't make it
Morrow (no) - no chance
Perry (no) - will be second fiddle to getzlaf
Bergeron (no) - will develop into a great all-around player, but his offensive game will stay at the 70ish point mark

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Old
12-31-2009, 12:29 AM
  #13
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All right, I'll give this a crack...

Goalies:
Brodeur (Yes)
Luongo (Probable)
Fleury (Probable)

Defense:
Pronger (Yes)
Niedermayer (Yes)
Weber (Doubtful, I just don't think he'll have the numbers.)
Keith (Doubtful, would have to put up Bourque-like offensive numbers for at least the next 12 years to get in, and I'm not sure he's got that in him.)
Boyle (No)
Doughty (Probable, although he has to establish a consistent offensive profile first.)
Seabrook (Doubtful, but could get in if he can still play in his early 40s and make the top ten in games played.)

Forwards:
Crosby (Yes)
Thornton (Yes)
Getzlaf (Yes)
Heatley (Yes)
Iginla (Yes)
Staal (Possible, if not very likely, but he can't afford another season like this one.)
Nash (Probable, 600 goals will be hard to ignore.)
Toews (Possible, but probably needs to be closer to a point per game to have a good shot.)
Marleau (No, but the Sharks will definitely hoist his number into the rafters.)
Richards (Doubtful)
Morrow (No)
Perry (No)
Bergeron (No)

So that's 8 definite Hall-bound players, along with 4 more probable ones, and two guys straddling the fence (Staal and Toews).


Last edited by worstfaceoffmanever: 12-31-2009 at 03:06 AM.
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Old
12-31-2009, 12:32 AM
  #14
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How can you use the word "definite"?

Crosby could blow his knee next weak.

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12-31-2009, 12:37 AM
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Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Name ONE thing that Luongo has done in his career to warrant a Hall of Fame induction.
Twice was a 2nd team all-star. Was 2nd in MVP voting in 2007. Played well in the World Cup in 2004, clutch actually, and has a long ways to play at 30 years old. Keep in mind he on the lowly Florida Panthers when he was on one of his 2nd team all-stars. If he walks away from the game tomorrow he likely does NOT get in. But I can't stress the word PROJECTION enough in this thread (I hope it's the last time).

So my question is, coupled with what he's done and is projected to likely do in the coming years barring injury he is a good bet to make the HHOF. Even without a Cup he would still make it along the lines of Giacomin. Assume that he wins a Vezina or two in the future as well. How would you keep him out?

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12-31-2009, 12:44 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Twice was a 2nd team all-star. Was 2nd in MVP voting in 2007. Played well in the World Cup in 2004, clutch actually, and has a long ways to play at 30 years old. Keep in mind he on the lowly Florida Panthers when he was on one of his 2nd team all-stars. If he walks away from the game tomorrow he likely does NOT get in. But I can't stress the word PROJECTION enough in this thread (I hope it's the last time).

So my question is, coupled with what he's done and is projected to likely do in the coming years barring injury he is a good bet to make the HHOF. Even without a Cup he would still make it along the lines of Giacomin. Assume that he wins a Vezina or two in the future as well. How would you keep him out?
Likely? he wouldnt.

There is alot of assumptions about the future in this argument

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12-31-2009, 12:49 AM
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Big Phil
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Likely? he wouldnt.

There is alot of assumptions about the future in this argument
You really need to look up the word "projection" in the dictionary. I'd like to think I join a lot of smart hockey people on these boards that can observe what a Future Hall of Famer might look like. This is what the discussion is about. It isn't rocket science to project that barring injury when all is said and done Bergeron won't be in the HHOF but Staal or Toews just might.

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12-31-2009, 12:53 AM
  #18
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Iginla is the first black captain in the NHL to add that he's a great player too. He's a lock.

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12-31-2009, 01:02 AM
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Big Phil
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Originally Posted by soulj43r View Post
Iginla is the first black captain in the NHL to add that he's a great player too. He's a lock.
Sarcasm soulj43r? That has nothing to do with it. Grant Fuhr is in the HHOF and would be if he was as white as a ghost.

Iginla will get in because he is/was a great player and among the best of his generation. Not to mention coming 2nd, 2nd and 3rd in Hart Trophy voting.........so far

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12-31-2009, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
You really need to look up the word "projection" in the dictionary.

Luongo is not projected to not make the HHOF.

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12-31-2009, 01:16 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
You really need to look up the word "projection" in the dictionary. I'd like to think I join a lot of smart hockey people on these boards that can observe what a Future Hall of Famer might look like. This is what the discussion is about. It isn't rocket science to project that barring injury when all is said and done Bergeron won't be in the HHOF but Staal or Toews just might.
Where else would i look the word up besides the dictionary?

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12-31-2009, 01:29 AM
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Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Claypool View Post
Luongo is not projected to not make the HHOF.
If you're saying what I think you are saying (double negative) then I tend to agree with you. He has about 10 more years of hockey left in him. Add that to what he most likely will do and what he HAS done so far and you've got yourself a Hall of Famer which is hard to do as a goalie

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12-31-2009, 02:14 AM
  #23
AfroThunder396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Twice was a 2nd team all-star. Was 2nd in MVP voting in 2007. Played well in the World Cup in 2004, clutch actually, and has a long ways to play at 30 years old. Keep in mind he on the lowly Florida Panthers when he was on one of his 2nd team all-stars. If he walks away from the game tomorrow he likely does NOT get in. But I can't stress the word PROJECTION enough in this thread (I hope it's the last time).

So my question is, coupled with what he's done and is projected to likely do in the coming years barring injury he is a good bet to make the HHOF. Even without a Cup he would still make it along the lines of Giacomin. Assume that he wins a Vezina or two in the future as well. How would you keep him out?
So he has two 2nd All Star Team selections. And almost won a trophy. And played on a bad team. That does not make you eligible for the Hall of Fame.

First of all it's nearly impossible to gauge if a player under 30 will make the HOF unless they're a phenom or extremely decorated like Crosby or Ovechkin. Look at the most recent Hall of Fame caliber goalies and see what they've accomplished by the time they were 30.


When Dominik Hasek was 30 years old he had two Vezinas, two Jennings, and two 1st Team All Star selections.

When Patrick Roy was 30 years old he had two Cups, two Conn Smythes, three Jennings Trophies, three 1st Team All Star selections, and two 2nd Team All Star selections.

When Martin Brodeur was 30 years old he had a Calder, two Cups (and was in progress on his 3rd), an Olympic Gold Medal, two Jennings Trophies, and two 2nd All Star Team selections.

When Ed Belfour was 30 had a Calder, two Vezinas, three Jennings Trophies, two 1st Team All Star selections, and one 2nd Team All Star selection.

Giacomin who you cite in your post had a 1st Team All Star selection and two 2nd team All Star selections when he was 30. Giacomin accomplished more in his first three NHL seasons than Luongo has in his entire career.


Why should we assume Luongo is going to win a Vezina? He hasn't yet and has an extremely talented group of goaltenders his age or younger that he's going to be competing with for the rest of his career. Even if he were to win one Vezina he'd be more comparable to a guy like Olaf Kolzig that to Giacomin

This is the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of Pretty Good. If a guy like Rogie Vachon hasn't made it in yet there's no way in hell Luongo makes it in with his current resume. This will all change if he wins a Cup very soon but until then he has done absolutely nothing to warrant Hall of Fame consideration.

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12-31-2009, 02:21 AM
  #24
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Luongo hasn't won all those awards because the media is obsessed with awards that require team success. You aren't going to lead the league in wins when your team is scoring 2 goals per game and you're facing 38 shots per game. If you look at save percentage, Luongo has owned other goalies this decade and deserved two or so Vezinas. If you control for shot quality, time spent on PK v. ES v. PP, etc. it's even better for Luongo.

You put 2007 playoffs Luongo behind almost any other team in that playoffs and they win the cup with him getting the Smythe.

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12-31-2009, 02:28 AM
  #25
TrevorLinden16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
When Martin Brodeur was 30 years old he had a Calder, two Cups (and was in progress on his 3rd), an Olympic Gold Medal, two Jennings Trophies, and two 2nd All Star Team selections.

Actually that's a pretty good comparison. He had no chance at cups in Florida, so that aspect isn't fair. He's been behind an older elite goaltender for international play (Roy blocked Brodeur as long as he was playing), but he's still played well. The Calder doesn't mean a heck of a lot for the HHOF, and the all-star selections cancel out.

So now that he's on a pretty good team, considering he's played very well in the playoffs so far, there's no reason to think he won't get enough success to get into the hall. Keep in mind Brodeur is a first-ballot lock, so he doesn't have to equal him.

In his favour: 2nd all-time in save percentage, third in adjusted save percentage as defined on the history of hockey board.

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