HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Team Canada chalk full of future Hall of Famers? Lets examine

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-31-2009, 04:17 PM
  #51
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLeader View Post
Big Phil, you should stop using your crystal ball. We all remember you claiming in all seriousness that Sidney Crosby would score over 150 points in 2007... Seems like everytime you predict anything for canadian players in general it's always beyond rediculous.
Wow, I certainly do not remember that. 150 points? Yeah, I mean he COULD get it someday, maybe 2-3 times but if he hasn't by the time he's 28-29 years old.....Sorry redleader I do not remember making that bold prediction

But if you look at the Canadian team right now the core is young. Is it crazy to make a bold projection that Getzlaf makes the HHOF? Some circles would place him in the top 5 in the game. Top 10 at worst. He has a Cup, a 91 point season, a top 10 scoring finish and is now an Olympian. And I am afraid the best is yet to come.

Staal? Probably an even better resume than Getzlaf. Great playoff performer so far, a 100 point season, a 2nd team all-star (voted ahead of Crosby), a Cup, led the playoffs in scoring and is still only 25.

Toews is not even in his prime. Chicago looks like a great team for a decade and I think Toews is going to be the best player when all is said and done. It is wildly premature for him since he's 21, but he has always screamed Joe Sakic in my mind. We'll see but my picks are far from outrageous in the OP.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2009, 04:19 PM
  #52
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
umm i know there are only a few that are locks, but the op is getting flamed by a few ppl and it doesnt really matter... obviously this is all assuming they play out their careers at around the same pace and such..... YES if Crosby has a career ending injury tomorrow he might not make it...

but thats not what the point is haha

and yes if we asked this a year from now, ppl would probably say steve mason is a surefire HOFer... but who cares... if you dont like the thread dont reply to it
yeah I know if I had a nickel for every time I had to use the word "projected" on this thread...........

seriously people we are going on the assumption of where there career paths appear to take them, not if they hit by a bus tomorrow or turn into Daigle or Stefan

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2009, 04:42 PM
  #53
robdicks
Registered User
 
robdicks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Welland ON
Posts: 5,521
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
yeah I know if I had a nickel for every time I had to use the word "projected" on this thread...........

seriously people we are going on the assumption of where there career paths appear to take them, not if they hit by a bus tomorrow or turn into Daigle or Stefan
just love how this is exactly what hfboards is for... fun hockey talk to pass the time away.... ppl take it too seriously haha

on my board (the leafs board) there are ton of ppl that just talk about the leafs getting kovalchuk when hes an FA and never stopped talking about Nash until he was signed... but who cares... thats the fun in being a sports fan haha

robdicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2009, 04:59 PM
  #54
Blue Liner
Registered User
 
Blue Liner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
just love how this is exactly what hfboards is for... fun hockey talk to pass the time away.... ppl take it too seriously haha

on my board (the leafs board) there are ton of ppl that just talk about the leafs getting kovalchuk when hes an FA and never stopped talking about Nash until he was signed... but who cares... thats the fun in being a sports fan haha
Glad some people get the idea and aren't going crazy serious over this. It's fun to be able to talk about because it means there's that much great talent in the game today. As has been said countless times, no one knows what will happen with these guys' careers in the years to come but when you look at that roster (and some of the other rosters for that matter) there is that much great talent today to where you can actually have a fun discussion about who might make it because there is a distinct possibility they will. It's amazing that we have so many young, great/becoming great players that we are watching grow up and develop. I certainly don't take it for granted.

And Big Phil, you are not alone in the Toews-Sakic comparisons. That one's been tossed around by a lot of people, fans and media alike. I can only hope as a lifelong 'Hawks fan that he turns out to be even a percentage of what Sakic was. I definitely think they're cut from the same cloth. It's fun to think about.

Blue Liner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2009, 06:26 PM
  #55
yada
move 2 dallas 4 work
 
yada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: watching happy pony
Country: United States
Posts: 10,542
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to yada
Phil can you tell me what makes you think boyle could get in or what you think it will take?

yada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 12:20 AM
  #56
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadadaimhollaing View Post
Phil can you tell me what makes you think boyle could get in or what you think it will take?
Well for my list in the OP Boyle was either going to be projected as "yes" or "possible". I took a flyer on him getting into the HHOF someday and I just might be wrong, but if we are going to talk about what can get him in heregoes:

He's got a Cup already in Tampa, and he was a good part of it. He has a couple 2nd team all-stars (2007, '09) and he's on a perrenial Cup contender. If San Jose has some great years in the regular season AND playoffs you'd think Boyle would be a a major contributor.

The knock with him is he's 33. This will be a good test to see how well he ages. It isn't rare for defensemen to thrive as good or better in their 30s. So we'll see. He'll be the same thing for the next few years that he's been post lockout and that's a Norris Candidate. If he wins one our impression of him changes (think Chara).

He has a long ways to go and it isn't a secret on how strict the HHOF is on defensemen so more postseason success is almost a must. But since San Jose is set to have a great team for a while I can see Boyle getting a lot of good press. Also he's on this Olympic team. Does our opinion of him change if he is the best defenseman on the team? We'll see. But I thought I could take a flyer on Boyle and hopefully he proves it in his old(er) age

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 01:43 AM
  #57
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claypool View Post
Brodeur (yes)
Luongo (no)
Fleury (no)

Defense:
Pronger (yes)
Niedermayer (yes)
Weber (no)
Keith (no) - see Weber's explanation
Boyle (no) - A bold prediction but he's thrived in his early 30s so far
Doughty (no)
Seabrook (no)

Forwards:
Crosby (yes)
Thornton (yes)
Getzlaf (no)
Heatley (no)
Iginla (no)
Staal (no)
Nash (no)
Toews (no)
Iggy makes it for sure, Heatley probably will too. Luongo has more to prove. Everyone else (other than your yes players) its too soon to say.

Crosby hasn't done enough yet either but I think we can all agree that he'll be there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Wow! I mean the HHOF has a somewhat liberal policy but I don't know anyone THAT strict. You really think Luongo and Fleury will never make it? They have the earmarks to do it. But a few of the forwards shocked me. You wouldn't put Iginla in there by the end of his career? Or Getzlaf? Seems to me he's on the right track to a long stop at superstardom.

By the way this isn't about RIGHT NOW. It's in the future. Pretend you have a crystal ball. Judge their career so far and make a projection on where their career curve and accomplishments will take them, barring injury
In my opinion its premature to be able to offer any kind of intelligent projection on a player like Dougthy, ditto with guys like Getzlaff. Yes, Fleury's won a cup and yes I think he'll win some more but its too soon to know how his career will turn out either.

The only guys who I'd say are in are the folks I mentioned above. The only guy I'd say is a lock to not make it is Boyle. Everyone else is way up in the air.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 01-02-2010 at 01:49 AM.
Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 02:55 AM
  #58
SMoneyMonkey
Registered User
 
SMoneyMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LA/MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,506
vCash: 500
This is a bit crazy. Really, the only lock is Doughty

SMoneyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 03:04 AM
  #59
Hermit Wizard Eater
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,675
vCash: 500
Wow.... Way too many guys on your list will not be HoFers/too early to tell.

Hermit Wizard Eater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 12:21 PM
  #60
Pacem
Registered User
 
Pacem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Langley
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,329
vCash: 500
Pretty easy to get into the Hall. I'd think Brodeur, Iginla, Thornton, Neidermayer, Pronger and Crosby(too young to tell right now, but he'll be in there) are the for sure guys right now. Maybes would be Heatley, Getzlaf, Luongo, and Fleury. Others, only time will tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
At age 30:
His save percentage is incredible (.919, 2nd in goalies playing over 203 games).
His save total is incredible (15,930 already 17th in nhl history)
Win total (despite playing on awful teams for most of his career) is 249, already 40th in nhl history.
Does Kipper have a chance then? He's at a .914 career sv% and in 158 less games played he has only 26 fewer wins than Luongo, a Vezina and carried a mediocre team on his back to 7th game in the Stanley Cup playoffs. I don't think he has a chance unless he wins a cup and plays at a 40+ win pace till he's 38. I don't care if Luongo played with a bad team in Florida, there have been other goalies that are not in the hall(or going into the hall) that have carried teams to the playoffs and done well. Cujo, Kipper (04), Vanbiesbrouck, and Giguere come to mind. IMO, Luongo has to win something or else he'll just be known as the best goalie never to win.

Pacem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 12:50 PM
  #61
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
In my opinion its premature to be able to offer any kind of intelligent projection on a player like Dougthy, ditto with guys like Getzlaff. Yes, Fleury's won a cup and yes I think he'll win some more but its too soon to know how his career will turn out either.

The only guys who I'd say are in are the folks I mentioned above. The only guy I'd say is a lock to not make it is Boyle. Everyone else is way up in the air.
Fair enough, there was a time when Lindros was a mortal lock now we have smart hockey fans that think he shouldn't get in there. But he suffered a major career collapse and when we look back on it, it really shouldn't have been a surprise. This thread is not for the weak minded though. This is for people that know how to examine a future Hall of Famer even at the ripe age of 25. Most of us would have pegged a player like Dale Hawerchuk as a future HHOFer when he was 25. It isn't as hard as you think. But if you aren't in tune with the standards of the HHOF and think it's premature, this thread is not for you.

As for me I think Fleury has Grant Fuhr written all over him. A guy that may or may not win a Vezina but who's bread and butter will be associated best with the playoffs. Or wins in general.

Getzlaf to me is just too dominant of a player to not be remembered as one of the best of his era barring injury. He's proven already at 24 years old that he's a big game player and a top scorer at the highest level

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 12:53 PM
  #62
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacem View Post
Does Kipper have a chance then? He's at a .914 career sv% and in 158 less games played he has only 26 fewer wins than Luongo, a Vezina and carried a mediocre team on his back to 7th game in the Stanley Cup playoffs. I don't think he has a chance unless he wins a cup and plays at a 40+ win pace till he's 38. I don't care if Luongo played with a bad team in Florida, there have been other goalies that are not in the hall(or going into the hall) that have carried teams to the playoffs and done well. Cujo, Kipper (04), Vanbiesbrouck, and Giguere come to mind. IMO, Luongo has to win something or else he'll just be known as the best goalie never to win.
Kipper has a chance IMO. He has a lot to do since goalies are judged the most harsh but don't bet against him.......yet. We'll know for sure in 5 years or so. Luongo may never win a Cup but if he is considered the best goalie to never win that'll put him in still some elite company with Giacomin. In other words, still a HHOFer

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 02:24 PM
  #63
DungeonK
Love Thy Neighbor
 
DungeonK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 5,617
vCash: 500
Team Canada is so great even its chalk is full of Hall of Famers.

Chock

DungeonK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 02:46 PM
  #64
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Fair enough, there was a time when Lindros was a mortal lock now we have smart hockey fans that think he shouldn't get in there. But he suffered a major career collapse and when we look back on it, it really shouldn't have been a surprise. This thread is not for the weak minded though. This is for people that know how to examine a future Hall of Famer even at the ripe age of 25. Most of us would have pegged a player like Dale Hawerchuk as a future HHOFer when he was 25. It isn't as hard as you think. But if you aren't in tune with the standards of the HHOF and think it's premature, this thread is not for you.
I stand by my original comments.

As for the HOF, I am on record here as saying it is a total joke. The standards are arbitrary and in many cases its politics not merit that get you in. And if you're going to let in Neely, then you better let in Lindros because it makes zero sense not to if you want to maintain any level of consistency whatsoever.

As for the whole 'you need to be in tune' this is a load of crap. The players you listed are way too early into their careers to have any real sense of how good they'll be. Yes, I think Toews has superstar potential but the only guy on the sunny side of 25 who's really shown that he's a probable lock is Crosby.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
As for me I think Fleury has Grant Fuhr written all over him. A guy that may or may not win a Vezina but who's bread and butter will be associated best with the playoffs. Or wins in general.
Or maybe he gets traded...

He's got potential just like Getzlaff but its too soon to say. Heck, I think its too soon to say for Luongo. Mike Luit was a really good goalie and he didn't sniff the HOF. He's got more to prove before he makes it too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Getzlaf to me is just too dominant of a player to not be remembered as one of the best of his era barring injury. He's proven already at 24 years old that he's a big game player and a top scorer at the highest level
He has much more to prove before he gets consideration. Guys like Heatley (a far less complete player) can at least point to 50 goal seasons on their resume. Getzlaff has shown good potential but hasn't demonstrated the level of dominance required for the HOF... yet.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 03:11 PM
  #65
RedLeader
Registered User
 
RedLeader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Wow, I certainly do not remember that. 150 points? Yeah, I mean he COULD get it someday, maybe 2-3 times but if he hasn't by the time he's 28-29 years old.....Sorry redleader I do not remember making that bold prediction

But if you look at the Canadian team right now the core is young. Is it crazy to make a bold projection that Getzlaf makes the HHOF? Some circles would place him in the top 5 in the game. Top 10 at worst. He has a Cup, a 91 point season, a top 10 scoring finish and is now an Olympian. And I am afraid the best is yet to come.

Staal? Probably an even better resume than Getzlaf. Great playoff performer so far, a 100 point season, a 2nd team all-star (voted ahead of Crosby), a Cup, led the playoffs in scoring and is still only 25.

Toews is not even in his prime. Chicago looks like a great team for a decade and I think Toews is going to be the best player when all is said and done. It is wildly premature for him since he's 21, but he has always screamed Joe Sakic in my mind. We'll see but my picks are far from outrageous in the OP.
http://hfboards.com/poll.php?do=show...s&pollid=26884

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Personally I can see him getting 150+. Keep in mind he was regularily on pace for over 140. He had that broken foot for the last 2 weeks of the season and he missed 3 games. He had 120 as it was, but throw in those factors, the confidence and the fact that he's one year older and is getting closer to his prime why can't he get 150?

Malkin's older, Sykora is there and Pittsburgh will be even better.
In my book that is credibility gone forever. It was outlandish then, less than 5% voted for it and most of those votes were sarcastic. Now you still think he could by 28? That is borderline crazy, only way that could happen was if they removed the salary cap so they could stack teams again+ making the nets bigger.


Last edited by RedLeader: 01-02-2010 at 03:18 PM.
RedLeader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 05:53 PM
  #66
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLeader View Post
http://hfboards.com/poll.php?do=show...s&pollid=26884



In my book that is credibility gone forever. It was outlandish then, less than 5% voted for it and most of those votes were sarcastic. Now you still think he could by 28? That is borderline crazy, only way that could happen was if they removed the salary cap so they could stack teams again+ making the nets bigger.
In the summer of 2007 that wasn't an outlandish thought. A big gamble yes, but a strong % of players thought he'd hit 110-130. He had 120 points that previous year and a lot of signs pointed to him adding to that. Of course it hasn't happened yet. The kid is 22 years old, a mortal lock for a minimum 100 points for any season he's healthy and you think that it's still insane to think by the time he hits his prime that it's "borderline crazy" to think he could hit 150 in a season? Count me in as a guy who waits and sees if this in fact will happen. If I lost credibility "forever" on that one with you, well, so be it. Count me in as a person who has continually been wrong when thinking Crosby can't hit certain heights before

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 05:55 PM
  #67
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He's got potential just like Getzlaff but its too soon to say. Heck, I think its too soon to say for Luongo. Mike Luit was a really good goalie and he didn't sniff the HOF. He's got more to prove before he makes it too.

He has much more to prove before he gets consideration. Guys like Heatley (a far less complete player) can at least point to 50 goal seasons on their resume. Getzlaff has shown good potential but hasn't demonstrated the level of dominance required for the HOF... yet.
We'll have to wait and see, that's the beauty of it seeing unfold in front of us

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2010, 07:22 PM
  #68
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
We'll have to wait and see, that's the beauty of it seeing unfold in front of us
He'll have to show much more than he has. At this point, there is zero indication that Getzlaff will be a HOF player. He has one top 10 finish and no 30 goal seasons. He's outside the top ten right now.

Any projection that he would make it would have to come with an assumption that he'd be much better than he is today.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2010, 05:29 AM
  #69
yada
move 2 dallas 4 work
 
yada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: watching happy pony
Country: United States
Posts: 10,542
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to yada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Well for my list in the OP Boyle was either going to be projected as "yes" or "possible". I took a flyer on him getting into the HHOF someday and I just might be wrong, but if we are going to talk about what can get him in heregoes:

He's got a Cup already in Tampa, and he was a good part of it. He has a couple 2nd team all-stars (2007, '09) and he's on a perrenial Cup contender. If San Jose has some great years in the regular season AND playoffs you'd think Boyle would be a a major contributor.

The knock with him is he's 33. This will be a good test to see how well he ages. It isn't rare for defensemen to thrive as good or better in their 30s. So we'll see. He'll be the same thing for the next few years that he's been post lockout and that's a Norris Candidate. If he wins one our impression of him changes (think Chara).

He has a long ways to go and it isn't a secret on how strict the HHOF is on defensemen so more postseason success is almost a must. But since San Jose is set to have a great team for a while I can see Boyle getting a lot of good press. Also he's on this Olympic team. Does our opinion of him change if he is the best defenseman on the team? We'll see. But I thought I could take a flyer on Boyle and hopefully he proves it in his old(er) age
Thanks phil, basically youre saying what i was thinking. I guess the biggest difference i have with boyle is guessing he gets norris consideration. As well as hes playing i just dont see him winning a norris. I think duncan keith is the guy whos going to start being a strong norris contender year in year out. Chara is still in his prime and nik lidstrom will still garner a lot of votes. Seeing As good as boyle was last year he wasnt able to be a norris finalist. I also dont know how boyle will be able to crack the first team all star position without being a norris finalist.
I will definatly concede you make a good point about boyle being viewed differently for making team canada. Maybe this could catapult boyle into norris contention as writers will take his play more serious in the next few years.

Shame for boyle that the goaltenders in tampa bay were atrocious after the lockout. I almost forgot he was a better defender then what we saw in tampa bay. Those BAD goalies made good players look terrible.

yada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2010, 06:28 AM
  #70
Derick*
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,624
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Derick*
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
I think you'd be surprised at how well a great goalie can take a mediocre team.

Look at Hasek in '99 or Giguere in '03.

The point is goaltenders don't get into the Hall with pretty regular season stats, he needs both team success (Cups/Olympic Medals) in addition to significant individual awards (Vezina/Hart/Smythe). Roughly halfway through his career he has none.

Again, getting a Cup would be a great starting point. Until then he's in Pierre Turgeon territory.
Hasek in 99 and Giguere in 03 still didn't win the cup though. And Luongo's dealt with even worse.

The 2007 Canucks were, without hyperbole, probably the worst set of skaters to make the second round of the playoffs in history. They scored 1.75 goals per game and allowed 38 shots per game. His save percentage would have had to have been .952 for them to reach an even goal differential. That would have been the highest ever. Giguere's in 2003 was .945, in the middle of the dpa.

I pray to the God of fairness that Luongo gets on a better team some day so that he will get the recognition he deserves.

Derick* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2010, 06:33 AM
  #71
vippe
Registered User
 
vippe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 12,525
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to vippe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derick View Post
Hasek in 99 and Giguere in 03 still didn't win the cup though. And Luongo's dealt with even worse.

The 2007 Canucks were, without hyperbole, probably the worst set of skaters to make the second round of the playoffs in history. They scored 1.75 goals per game and allowed 38 shots per game. His save percentage would have had to have been .952 for them to reach an even goal differential. That would have been the highest ever. Giguere's in 2003 was .945, in the middle of the dpa.

I pray to the God of fairness that Luongo gets on a better team some day so that he will get the recognition he deserves.
You've cracked me up ever since you joined the forum

vippe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2010, 06:36 AM
  #72
Derick*
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,624
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Derick*
You have... uh... hmm... err... oh, had an avatar that makes me suspect you're a communist ever since I joined this forum.

Derick* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:15 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.