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Old
01-04-2010, 10:10 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I dont know. I think its showmanship. He is trying to create excitement to sell the product. I dont see anything wrong with it. Just take it with a grain of salt. I dont like his style. I find him overbearing and hard to take. But thats just me.
Sure for guys like on message boards we realize that he is trying to create excitement and not too take his analysis seriously, but for the average TSN viewing fan - they may actually think that Ryan Ellis is the second coming of Bobby Orr.

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01-04-2010, 10:21 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Eberle had his worst game (even though he scored) of the tournament. Looked fairly selfish in the 3rd trying to score his goal to tie the record and didn't get anything accomplished.

I think Eberle is definitely best served playing on the farm next season, at least to star. Their are some glaring differences between he and MPS. MPS is bigger and faster and has been playing against men in the SEL for a while.

I do agree with McGuire that MPS is an NHL player. Eberle will need some time. My lines next season. I also don't think Hall would be automatic as an NHLer next season, he does have more size than Eberle but still needs work:

Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
MPS-Brule-Nilsson/O'Sullivan/Cogliano (whichever is actually here)

Now we need some solid (cheap) grinders to round out the forwards. Reconstructing the third line should be the top priority this summer. Horcoff can be the center on that line, but we need two strong wingers.
I disagree completely, Eberle has done everything he possibly could have on the Junior level, there's absolutely no upside whatsoever to have him dominate again down there, he will be with the big club undoubtedly next year unless he lays a giant turd in training camp..... He's definitely more ready for the bigs than MPS imo, i think MPS needs a full season next year to adjust to the North American game and he needs to raise his compete level, i didn't like what i saw from him when he was pressured by defenders, no use in rushing him.

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01-04-2010, 10:25 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I disagree completely, Eberle has done everything he possibly could have on the Junior level, there's absolutely no upside whatsoever to have him dominate again down there, he will be with the big club undoubtedly next year unless he lays a giant turd in training camp..... He's definitely more ready for the bigs than MPS imo, i think MPS needs a full season next year to adjust to the North American game, no use in rushing him
If you could take the best things about each of them and make one player you would really have something. They are both ready for the nhl. MPS more so than Eberle. Just because of size and speed.

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01-04-2010, 10:56 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I disagree completely, Eberle has done everything he possibly could have on the Junior level, there's absolutely no upside whatsoever to have him dominate again down there, he will be with the big club undoubtedly next year unless he lays a giant turd in training camp..... He's definitely more ready for the bigs than MPS imo, i think MPS needs a full season next year to adjust to the North American game and he needs to raise his compete level, i didn't like what i saw from him when he was pressured by defenders, no use in rushing him.
AHL isnt "junior level" .. Its a professional mens league .. I am not saying that he should but Eberle can surely learn a lot from playing there..

Ideally I want to see a line of Pajaarvi-Horcoff-Eberle next season with Lander taking over from Horc the year after. I would also be ok seeing Eberle play in the AHL alongside Nash, Petry etc.

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01-04-2010, 11:04 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
If you could take the best things about each of them and make one player you would really have something. They are both ready for the nhl. MPS more so than Eberle. Just because of size and speed.
There's no doubt that MPS is ready for the NHL physically but he seems a little softish to compete at an NHL level from what i've seen of him, i think he needs another year of seasoning in the SEL or the AHL if he so chooses to take that route, there's no need to waste a year of his ELC if he's not going to be ready..... Hopefully he gets to show what he's got at training camp then maybe we can all make a more fair assessment of his NHL readiness.

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01-04-2010, 11:04 AM
  #81
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Daren Millard is said on his twitter or something that he asked both MPS and Lander about coming to NA next year and both don't know if they will next year.

Lander probably because he is better off cash wise anyways in Europe, but not sure about MPS. As for buying out MPS's contract and bringing him over, any player that starts the year in europe has to clear waivers before being called up to their big team.

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01-04-2010, 11:06 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
AHL isnt "junior level" .. Its a professional mens league .. I am not saying that he should but Eberle can surely learn a lot from playing there..

Ideally I want to see a line of Pajaarvi-Horcoff-Eberle next season with Lander taking over from Horc the year after. I would also be ok seeing Eberle play in the AHL alongside Nash, Petry etc.

While that's true about the AHL, i just think that he's ready to make a jump to the big league, he didn't look out of place at all in preseason and was actually one of the Oilers better players and it seems that he's improved even moreso since then, he's ready.

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01-04-2010, 11:08 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Daren Millard is said on his twitter or something that he asked both MPS and Lander about coming to NA next year and both don't know if they will next year.

Lander probably because he is better off cash wise anyways in Europe, but not sure about MPS. As for buying out MPS's contract and bringing him over, any player that starts the year in europe has to clear waivers before being called up to their big team.
MPS's contract expires after this season so there is no need to buy him out.. Lander has one more year left on his..
MPS playing in the AHL next season would be ideal for the team.. but probably not for MSP.

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01-04-2010, 11:15 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
While that's true about the AHL, i just think that he's ready to make a jump to the big league, he didn't look out of place at all in preseason and was actually one of the Oilers better players and it seems that he's improved even moreso since then, he's ready.
Eberle was decent during preseason but he didnt score any goals.. I wouldnt bring him into a dressing room that has no identity and no direction. Playing in the AHL with a defined role IMO would be best for him. He'll be bumped from line to line in the NHL with ever changing expectations.

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01-04-2010, 11:17 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
MPS's contract expires after this season so there is no need to buy him out.. Lander has one more year left on his..
MPS playing in the AHL next season would be ideal for the team.. but probably not for MSP.
my thoughts exactly.... the oilers would most likely want MPS in the AHL next season, getting used to the small rinks and NA game styel, but MPS can likely make more money in the SEL next year.... also, he's just an 18 year old kid still, and staying in sweden is probably easier and more desireable for him.... if he was making 800k/year in the NHL, then i could see him coming over, but if he's only making 75k/year in the AHL, i don't really see the incentive

MPS probably isn't ready for the NHL, and if he doesn't want to play in the AHL, staying in the SEL is the next best option

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01-04-2010, 11:21 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
Eberle was decent during preseason but he didnt score any goals.. I wouldnt bring him into a dressing room that has no identity and no direction. Playing in the AHL with a defined role IMO would be best for him. He'll be bumped from line to line in the NHL with ever changing expectations.
You do realize that our ahl team has no identity or direction either right?

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01-04-2010, 11:29 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
MPS's contract expires after this season so there is no need to buy him out.. Lander has one more year left on his..
MPS playing in the AHL next season would be ideal for the team.. but probably not for MSP.
I was more referring to the comments of bringing him over this year. And I agree I also think Eberle would benefit from some time in the AHL, so that he can play against some men and then make the jump. Let both of them playing together and excel in the AHL and then move them up into the NHL, not the other way around.

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01-04-2010, 11:50 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
Eberle was decent during preseason but he didnt score any goals.. I wouldnt bring him into a dressing room that has no identity and no direction. Playing in the AHL with a defined role IMO would be best for him. He'll be bumped from line to line in the NHL with ever changing expectations.
Exactly. I don't want to use Eberle as a stop-gap measure. I get the feeling the management will use him to help appease the fans, but I think it would be the wrong move.

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01-04-2010, 11:53 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
LOL at mcguire, was he not the guy that said the Oilers and fans need to be patient with him at the draft and now he thinks he is a first line player in the NHL right now. The guy is a walking contradiction.
You seem surprised.

This was the same guy who said that Sam Gagner at 18 was an NHL player and the Oilers had to keep him with the big club.

Then over a year later said the Oilers rushed him by bringing him into the NHL too soon.

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01-04-2010, 11:58 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
You seem surprised.

This was the same guy who said that Sam Gagner at 18 was an NHL player and the Oilers had to keep him with the big club.

Then over a year later said the Oilers rushed him by bringing him into the NHL too soon.
Him, along with 99% of Oilers fans.

Of all the forum posts I was reading elsewhere, I remember one guy saying it was a bad idea to keep him in the NHL and he should go back down. Wellllll, lots of "you don't know what you're talking about" posts and things like that. Now everyone says they should have kept him in junior. Admittedly, I wasn't the guy suggesting he stay down in the OHL. But really, it's done now.. what can you do.

The one advantage we have with some of our other prospects though is they'll be eligible to play in the AHL as well, if we need to send them down (at least the ones who have the good shot at cracking the lineup, minus this year's first rounder). We didn't have that option with Gagner. Once he broke that games played barrier we were stuck with him.

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01-04-2010, 12:04 PM
  #91
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Kadri draws more than Bob Ross (penalties though, not lush landscapes)

Other than that, he's pretty unremarkable. If he can bulk up a bit I wager he'll be a great 3rd liner - not a bad thing, someone that can generate PPs is a huge asset, but taking him before MPS was a huge mistake I think. I thought it during the draft and my opinion has grown stronger through this tourney.

MPS is starting to generate a little too much hype, unfortunately. I think it's going to be another series of up and comers that we bet the farm on and come out the other side wishing for something else ala gags/cogs/nilsson. I just hope he has the will to elevate when the time comes. We know Eberle does, but he just doesn't have the genetics to be a top shelf talent at the NHL level (really hope I'm wrong)
I won't go as far as getting into a debate about who is better and what not, but I like MPS and I hope he pans out.

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01-04-2010, 12:06 PM
  #92
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The Mighty Oil better start looking for a left handed shooting sniper that can play well with go Magnus. Is there anyone one this team now that sounds like that?
Looking for a true sniper: the story of this franchise over the last 10 years. What's new?

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01-04-2010, 12:25 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I was more referring to the comments of bringing him over this year. And I agree I also think Eberle would benefit from some time in the AHL, so that he can play against some men and then make the jump. Let both of them playing together and excel in the AHL and then move them up into the NHL, not the other way around.
To make the jump, not to make the jump. It's a BIG decesion for both of these kids, and the Oil. Tambo was asked if MPS, and Eberle were "penned in" the Oilers lineup for next year and said it wouold be a wait and see thing, BUT he also said that they kept track of scoring plays made by players from all teams and that Eberle created more than any other player threw preseason. Staffer also said that Eberle didn't score but was Edmonton's best player in the games he played. What more can he prove, when he went to the A last year we was a PPG player (short term but still for 18 that's pretty good), IMO MPS either plays here or goes back to the SEL he won't go to the A most people think that the SEL is competetive than the A, he's already playing against men and he doesn't look out of place on the small ice, his size will help with that, he's not Omark that needs the big ice to stay alive. When you say play them in the A what if they are to good, look at the Avs nobody thought those to kids would be this good and Eberle and MPS could have the same effect for us sending them back down just because is like cutting off your nose dispite your face. If they are bubble guys they go down but if they are in the top six they stay. Call me crazy but I rather have Eberle, and MPS right now over PattyO, and Horc in the top six, both of these guys are like a - 100 "just brutal"

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01-04-2010, 12:52 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by swany View Post
To make the jump, not to make the jump. It's a BIG decesion for both of these kids, and the Oil. Tambo was asked if MPS, and Eberle were "penned in" the Oilers lineup for next year and said it wouold be a wait and see thing, BUT he also said that they kept track of scoring plays made by players from all teams and that Eberle created more than any other player threw preseason. Staffer also said that Eberle didn't score but was Edmonton's best player in the games he played. What more can he prove, when he went to the A last year we was a PPG player (short term but still for 18 that's pretty good), IMO MPS either plays here or goes back to the SEL he won't go to the A most people think that the SEL is competetive than the A, he's already playing against men and he doesn't look out of place on the small ice, his size will help with that, he's not Omark that needs the big ice to stay alive. When you say play them in the A what if they are to good, look at the Avs nobody thought those to kids would be this good and Eberle and MPS could have the same effect for us sending them back down just because is like cutting off your nose dispite your face. If they are bubble guys they go down but if they are in the top six they stay. Call me crazy but I rather have Eberle, and MPS right now over PattyO, and Horc in the top six, both of these guys are like a - 100 "just brutal"
On Eberle well that is pre-season and a short time in the AHL. Schremp did the same years ago and went no where. Even Gagner played pretty damn good in his first pre-season, but then last year there was talk that we needed to send him down but we couldn't.

On MPS, he would need to get use to the NA ice is my biggest concern with him.

Thing is on both of these guys is they are prospects and everyone is making them out to be some sort of saviours of the team. It's not just the fans, there is some media doing the same. If both are so good why aren't they in the NHL right now? I like both players and hope they both turn out to be the superstars that they have the potential to be, but there isn't a for sure thing when it comes to prospects unless you are a Crosby, Tavares, Ovechkin etc...

I like Tambo's wait and see approach.

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01-04-2010, 12:58 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
On Eberle well that is pre-season and a short time in the AHL. Schremp did the same years ago and went no where. Even Gagner played pretty damn good in his first pre-season, but then last year there was talk that we needed to send him down but we couldn't.

On MPS, he would need to get use to the NA ice is my biggest concern with him.

Thing is on both of these guys is they are prospects and everyone is making them out to be some sort of saviours of the team. It's not just the fans, there is some media doing the same. If both are so good why aren't they in the NHL right now? I like both players and hope they both turn out to be the superstars that they have the potential to be, but there isn't a for sure thing when it comes to prospects unless you are a Crosby, Tavares, Ovechkin etc...

I like Tambo's wait and see approach.
i do not, I think he's lazy, and in this league, if you're standing still, you're being left behind. I feel Tambo needs to be proactive and predict where this team/roster and is going, and make the right moves in a timely fashion. He needs to be shopping our vets and bigger contracts right now, he needs to figure out which of our key players won't be here when we are ready to start winning and compete and move the players that have value and won't be here when that time comes. I can't stand his current approach.

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01-04-2010, 01:09 PM
  #96
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McGuire also threw a fit when MPS was not utilized during that key powerplay.
maybe the Oilers can do that too when he gets here.

just kidding, but that was absolutely ridiculous that Sweden did that. then saying Backstrom would get like 10-12 minutes a game in WJ competition is as retarded. i kind of hate Sweden now. glad they lost.

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01-04-2010, 01:14 PM
  #97
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Exactly. I don't want to use Eberle as a stop-gap measure. I get the feeling the management will use him to help appease the fans, but I think it would be the wrong move.
I agree completely. I think he could manage in the NHL, but on some nights it would be a struggle to keep his head above water. We already have a couple of those in Gagner and Cogliano. Worst case scenario, the Oilers encounter a Gilbert Brule type situation with Eberle, and nobody wants that.

I think the Oilers should do with Eberle what Anaheim did with Bobby Ryan. They let him dominate in the OHL, they let him dominate in the AHL with a short stint in the NHL before finally calling him up for good and he stormed onto the pro scene. I think that's what the Oilers should do and would be the safest scenario.

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01-04-2010, 01:45 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by JBell84 View Post
Kadri draws more than Bob Ross (penalties though, not lush landscapes)

Other than that, he's pretty unremarkable. If he can bulk up a bit I wager he'll be a great 3rd liner - not a bad thing, someone that can generate PPs is a huge asset, but taking him before MPS was a huge mistake I think. I thought it during the draft and my opinion has grown stronger through this tourney.

MPS is starting to generate a little too much hype, unfortunately. I think it's going to be another series of up and comers that we bet the farm on and come out the other side wishing for something else ala gags/cogs/nilsson. I just hope he has the will to elevate when the time comes. We know Eberle does, but he just doesn't have the genetics to be a top shelf talent at the NHL level (really hope I'm wrong)
Let's not forget that Eberle and MPS are 2 and 3 in scoring at the WJHC. This isn't exactly something the Oilers are accustomed to. They may be getting lots of hype but it's completely justified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Eberle had his worst game (even though he scored) of the tournament. Looked fairly selfish in the 3rd trying to score his goal to tie the record and didn't get anything accomplished.

I think Eberle is definitely best served playing on the farm next season, at least to star. Their are some glaring differences between he and MPS. MPS is bigger and faster and has been playing against men in the SEL for a while.

I do agree with McGuire that MPS is an NHL player. Eberle will need some time. My lines next season. I also don't think Hall would be automatic as an NHLer next season, he does have more size than Eberle but still needs work:

Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
MPS-Brule-Nilsson/O'Sullivan/Cogliano (whichever is actually here)

Now we need some solid (cheap) grinders to round out the forwards. Reconstructing the third line should be the top priority this summer. Horcoff can be the center on that line, but we need two strong wingers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
Eberle was decent during preseason but he didnt score any goals.. I wouldnt bring him into a dressing room that has no identity and no direction. Playing in the AHL with a defined role IMO would be best for him. He'll be bumped from line to line in the NHL with ever changing expectations.
I think that there is little to no chance that Eberle doesn't make the team next year. He almost made it this year and Tambellini said that Eberle produced more scoring chances than any other Oiler during the pre season. That shows, to me, a guy who is ready to make the transition.

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01-04-2010, 01:45 PM
  #99
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I agree completely. I think he could manage in the NHL, but on some nights it would be a struggle to keep his head above water. We already have a couple of those in Gagner and Cogliano. Worst case scenario, the Oilers encounter a Gilbert Brule type situation with Eberle, and nobody wants that.

I think the Oilers should do with Eberle what Anaheim did with Bobby Ryan. They let him dominate in the OHL, they let him dominate in the AHL with a short stint in the NHL before finally calling him up for good and he stormed onto the pro scene. I think that's what the Oilers should do and would be the safest scenario.
Gagner got 40 points as a rookie, Cogs has had 2 18 goal seasons I don't follow what your reasoning is here, this is there 3rd year and right now Gagner is expected to be a #1 centre that's pretty tough for a 3rd year player. As for Ryan your logic makes no sense the Ducks wanted him up a year earlier but because Burke screwed with the cap IE Big Bad Burt they couldn't fit him in under the cap because of his bonuses kicked in, he never would have played so long in the A if it wasn't for the cap. I have a question for everyone who wants Eberle, and MPS to play in the A, if we trade Pies, Moreau, let Comrie walk, Pattyo, who do you guys expect to take there places, more vets if this is a rebuild what's the use of trading away the vets and NOT play the future. So by my understanding we trade off these guys just to go vet hunting in the offseason. Or are we going to bring up Reddox, Omarra, Spurgon(sp) over Eberle, MPS and who ever we draft in the top 2 I think not.

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01-04-2010, 02:06 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by swany View Post
Gagner got 40 points as a rookie, Cogs has had 2 18 goal seasons I don't follow what your reasoning is here, this is there 3rd year and right now Gagner is expected to be a #1 centre that's pretty tough for a 3rd year player. As for Ryan your logic makes no sense the Ducks wanted him up a year earlier but because Burke screwed with the cap IE Big Bad Burt they couldn't fit him in under the cap because of his bonuses kicked in, he never would have played so long in the A if it wasn't for the cap. I have a question for everyone who wants Eberle, and MPS to play in the A, if we trade Pies, Moreau, let Comrie walk, Pattyo, who do you guys expect to take there places, more vets if this is a rebuild what's the use of trading away the vets and NOT play the future. So by my understanding we trade off these guys just to go vet hunting in the offseason. Or are we going to bring up Reddox, Omarra, Spurgon(sp) over Eberle, MPS and who ever we draft in the top 2 I think not.
Good post. I agree.

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